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Old
11-25-2012, 05:34 PM
  #901
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
Way too much from Toronto. The offer for Mike Richards was supposedly Kadri and Kulemin. Richards is much younger, longer contract, and somewhat cap friendly. To offer more for Lou, who is older and has a terrible contract is ridiculous. If there is no hockey this year, highly doubt Burke trades for Lou, with the several UFA's next year. Not sure why Cannucks fans seem to put Raymond in any deal. Leafs have several forwards, with youngsters waiting in the wings.
That was the offer for Richards?

no wonder he's a King.

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11-25-2012, 05:34 PM
  #902
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Interesting thought. A buddy of mine who is a Bruins fan seems to think that if a shortened season were to happen Thomas may be willing to play. He also said the Bruins would let him go for a lower (3rd or 4th) pick. Anyone like this for a short term option on the Leafs?
Does have any Bruins connection other then being just a fan? Cause fans say a lot of crap with no truth to it.

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11-25-2012, 05:41 PM
  #903
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
Way too much from Toronto. The offer for Mike Richards was supposedly Kadri and Kulemin. Richards is much younger, longer contract, and somewhat cap friendly. To offer more for Lou, who is older and has a terrible contract is ridiculous. If there is no hockey this year, highly doubt Burke trades for Lou, with the several UFA's next year. Not sure why Cannucks fans seem to put Raymond in any deal. Leafs have several forwards, with youngsters waiting in the wings.
At the time it was Kulimen (a 30 goal scorer) and your top prospect Kadri and it still wasn't enough. A leaf fan even confirmed this in an earlier thread...

So today it would be Lupul and Rielly, (Rielly is worth more now though, so you might have had a chance).

Also what UFA goalies are realistic? This gets brought up all the time. very few end up being realistic, if any.

Look if you don't want him, great I understand, also if you think he ends up costing your team too much hey that is your opinion more than fair. Just don't try and sell us on half facts.

I think the most realistic statement any leaf fan can make is Burke is too Stuburn. i will say you are right, fair enough lets trade him to Florida for Petrovic, Shore and one of their goalies.

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11-25-2012, 05:42 PM
  #904
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Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
Does have any Bruins connection other then being just a fan? Cause fans say a lot of crap with no truth to it.
I'm not citing him as a source. He does follow his Bruins religiously though....not sure were he heard it....just spitballing thats all.

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11-25-2012, 05:44 PM
  #905
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Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
At the time it was Kulimen (a 30 goal scorer) and your top prospect Kadri and it still wasn't enough. A leaf fan even confirmed this in an earlier thread...

So today it would be Lupul and Rielly, (Rielly is worth more now though, so you might have had a chance).

Also what UFA goalies are realistic? This gets brought up all the time. very few end up being realistic, if any.

Look if you don't want him, great I understand, also if you think he ends up costing your team too much hey that is your opinion more than fair. Just don't try and sell us on half facts.

I think the most realistic statement any leaf fan can make is Burke is too Stuburn. i will say you are right, fair enough lets trade him to Florida for Petrovic, Shore and one of their goalies.
I think it's also fair to say that if the price tag is to high, it's not stupborness that makes Burke walk.

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11-25-2012, 05:44 PM
  #906
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
Way too much from Toronto. The offer for Mike Richards was supposedly Kadri and Kulemin. Richards is much younger, longer contract, and somewhat cap friendly. To offer more for Lou, who is older and has a terrible contract is ridiculous. If there is no hockey this year, highly doubt Burke trades for Lou, with the several UFA's next year. Not sure why Cannucks fans seem to put Raymond in any deal. Leafs have several forwards, with youngsters waiting in the wings.
Kulemin coming off a 30 goal season + Kadri at 41pts in 44 >> Kulemin coming off a 7 goal season + Kadri putting 40 pts in 48 games after a whole year of development.

Agree about Raymond and the Leafs not being the greatest fit though.

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11-25-2012, 06:16 PM
  #907
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Interesting thought. A buddy of mine who is a Bruins fan seems to think that if a shortened season were to happen Thomas may be willing to play. He also said the Bruins would let him go for a lower (3rd or 4th) pick. Anyone like this for a short term option on the Leafs?
Brain Burke the man who has started the "you can play" campaign to help gay hockey players feel welcomed trades for the man who has openly suggested his opinion on gay marriage.

PLEASE GOD DO THIS AND THEN LET TORONTO HAVE HBO FOLLOW IT!!!

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11-25-2012, 06:21 PM
  #908
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Can someone tell me what the Canucks downside is for keeping Luongo for a year?

We all know that Schneider hasn't proven that he can carry the load as a starter yet, why not let him prove it with a reliable goalie ready to take-over if he falters?

Does anyone honestly think that Luongo won't try his best to win back his starters role? It's not like he was a bad goalie last year, it's just that Schneider has been better than any NHL goalie in his limited action over the last two years.

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11-25-2012, 06:21 PM
  #909
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Originally Posted by Mystifo View Post
Brain Burke the man who has started the "you can play" campaign to help gay hockey players feel welcomed trades for the man who has openly suggested his opinion on gay marriage.

PLEASE GOD DO THIS AND THEN LET TORONTO HAVE HBO FOLLOW IT!!!


Haha, yes. Hadn't thought of the HBO angle, although the Winter Classic is cancelled already.



I just think Thomas would be an excellent fit for TO. If nothing else, highly entertaining.

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11-25-2012, 06:23 PM
  #910
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
Can someone remind me again what the downside of keeping Luongo for a year is?

We all know that Schneider hasn't proven that he can carry the load as a starter yet, why not let him prove it with a reliable goalie ready to take-over if he falters?

Does anyone honestly think that Luongo won't try his best to win back his starters role? It's not like he was a bad goalie last year, it's just that Schneider has been better than any NHL goalie in his limited action over the last two years.


Luongo wants out. He hasn't demanded a trade, but I'm not sure he's all on board with playing out the full year here. If he is, great. If not, which I think is likely, he should be dealt at the deadline at the latest.

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Old
11-25-2012, 06:27 PM
  #911
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Haha, yes. Hadn't thought of the HBO angle, although the Winter Classic is cancelled already.



I just think Thomas would be an excellent fit for TO. If nothing else, highly entertaining.
Yup...if the Jays hadn't traded Escobar...we could have uesed his eyeblack to lure TT.

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11-25-2012, 06:34 PM
  #912
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Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
At the time it was Kulimen (a 30 goal scorer) and your top prospect Kadri and it still wasn't enough. A leaf fan even confirmed this in an earlier thread...

So today it would be Lupul and Rielly, (Rielly is worth more now though, so you might have had a chance).

Also what UFA goalies are realistic? This gets brought up all the time. very few end up being realistic, if any.

Look if you don't want him, great I understand, also if you think he ends up costing your team too much hey that is your opinion more than fair. Just don't try and sell us on half facts.

I think the most realistic statement any leaf fan can make is Burke is too Stuburn. i will say you are right, fair enough lets trade him to Florida for Petrovic, Shore and one of their goalies.
You lost some credibility with your post. What exactly makes Burke stubborn? Because he wont overpay for a player that he deems the asking price is too high? Sounds like a guy doing his job rather than being stubborn. Burke has said publicly he tries to consumate a deal whereas both teams benefit.

What is so hard to believe about goalies being available in the UFA market next year? There are some who's contracts will be up, and with the likelyhood of the cap going down, there will be some shuffling and player movement. As I said, if there is no season this yeat (which to me is looking likely) that decreased the likelyhood of the Leafs going after Lou. Shannon IMHO is dead wrong with his assurances of Lou already coming to Toronto.

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11-25-2012, 06:49 PM
  #913
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
You lost some credibility with your post. What exactly makes Burke stubborn? Because he wont overpay for a player that he deems the asking price is too high? Sounds like a guy doing his job rather than being stubborn. Burke has said publicly he tries to consumate a deal whereas both teams benefit.


And you believe him? Even after the Phaneuf and Gardiner deals?



Burke is stubborn when it comes to giving value for goaltending. He never has offered it up. The VAN fans are well used to inferior options being brought in, again and again, only for them to fail to live up to the billing. What he is doing now is nothing new to us.



Quote:
What is so hard to believe about goalies being available in the UFA market next year? There are some who's contracts will be up, and with the likelyhood of the cap going down, there will be some shuffling and player movement. As I said, if there is no season this yeat (which to me is looking likely) that decreased the likelyhood of the Leafs going after Lou. Shannon IMHO is dead wrong with his assurances of Lou already coming to Toronto.


I think Shannon got TO's perspective on a potential deal. As in, they feel that they have a deal in place. However, nothing on that level of certainty has been leaked here.



As to waiting to next year. It's possible TO finds their starter then. No question about it. But who can say really? It's far from an assurance. Meanwhile, they are behind the 8ball trying to make due with what they have, and having intent on making the playoffs. Let's see if these two things reconcile this year.

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11-25-2012, 06:54 PM
  #914
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
And you believe him? Even after the Phaneuf and Gardiner deals?



Burke is stubborn when it comes to giving value for goaltending. He never has offered it up. The VAN fans are well used to inferior options being brought in, again and again, only for them to fail to live up to the billing. What he is doing now is nothing new to us.







I think Shannon got TO's perspective on a potential deal. As in, they feel that they have a deal in place. However, nothing on that level of certainty has been leaked here.



As to waiting to next year. It's possible TO finds their starter then. No question about it. But who can say really? It's far from an assurance. Meanwhile, they are behind the 8ball trying to make due with what they have, and having intent on making the playoffs. Let's see if these two things reconcile this year.
I will ask again, to all of the Canuck fans who keep repeatedly saying "we lived through Burke failing to pay up for goalies when he was here", please give an example of a goalie that was available to him (a true starter) that he didn't pay up for.

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11-25-2012, 06:56 PM
  #915
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I will ask again, to all of the Canuck fans who keep repeatedly saying "we lived through Burke failing to pay up for goalies when he was here", please give an example of a goalie that was available to him (a true starter) that he didn't pay up for.
They were around.

None on quite the platter that Luongo is.

This is a stupid question.

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11-25-2012, 07:02 PM
  #916
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
And you believe him? Even after the Phaneuf and Gardiner deals?



Burke is stubborn when it comes to giving value for goaltending. He never has offered it up. The VAN fans are well used to inferior options being brought in, again and again, only for them to fail to live up to the billing. What he is doing now is nothing new to us.







I think Shannon got TO's perspective on a potential deal. As in, they feel that they have a deal in place. However, nothing on that level of certainty has been leaked here.



As to waiting to next year. It's possible TO finds their starter then. No question about it. But who can say really? It's far from an assurance. Meanwhile, they are behind the 8ball trying to make due with what they have, and having intent on making the playoffs. Let's see if these two things reconcile this year.
Logic will speak to this, but Burke has said that when a GM constantly fleeces other GM's in trades, there is reluctance from others to do deals. Thats just common sense.

I believe that the Leafs are certainlly interested in Lou, but not at a certain asking price. If there is no hockey this year, I highly doubt the Leafs do anything with the Nucks regarding Lou, with the crop of UFA and the needs of teams likely having to comply to a lower cap. Lou has value, and like most fans of their respective teams, want value in return. The percieved value by some Nucks fans is absolutely ridiculous with all that comes with Lou. The market for Lou decreases significantly, if there is no hockey this year.

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11-25-2012, 07:06 PM
  #917
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
They were around.

None on quite the platter that Luongo is.

This is a stupid question.
It really isn't a stupid question. These remarks keep coming up as fact....one would think at least one example could be given.

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11-25-2012, 07:17 PM
  #918
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I think it's also fair to say that if the price tag is to high, it's not stupborness that makes Burke walk.
True, but what is too high? Again a question that most likely will never be able to be answered unless the untinkable happens and he pays a price that is too high. But I will say he is stuborn enough to not sign some rookies (RJ Umberger) to rookie salaries. I personally like BB, and think he is a good GM. I thought he did a good job, and deserves credit for turning the Canucks around. Just as Gillis deserves credit for taking us to the next level. But he is very stuborn, look at his lack of wanting to hand out a Back diving contract. It could have gotten him a number one center, who knows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I will ask again, to all of the Canuck fans who keep repeatedly saying "we lived through Burke failing to pay up for goalies when he was here", please give an example of a goalie that was available to him (a true starter) that he didn't pay up for.
It is hard to say, I would have to take a look at the timeline again, see who was available, who did move. The only ones I can think of off the top of my head was Cujo, and Hasek, but even then I am probably off.

I liked the Potvin pick up actually, and did blame the media a bit for what happened with him, his ego was too fragile, and while the media couldn't let him find his game, you could just watch as the media became too much for him. So I would give him half points for him... wait was that him? **** I can't remember I need to look it all up again.

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11-25-2012, 08:08 PM
  #919
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
You lost some credibility with your post. What exactly makes Burke stubborn? Because he wont overpay for a player that he deems the asking price is too high? Sounds like a guy doing his job rather than being stubborn. Burke has said publicly he tries to consumate a deal whereas both teams benefit.
The problem is the vast majority of deals proposed here we do not benefit. Based on the deal you deemed "too much." A reduction of that equates to Kadri and a first. Pretty underwhelm to say nothing else. If even that is considered "too much" than what benefit are we getting?

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11-25-2012, 08:26 PM
  #920
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Can someone tell me what the Canucks downside is for keeping Luongo for a year?
If they are committed to Schneider, holding onto Luongo for another year will potentially destroy whatever value he has now.

They'll have a year to deal with a cap reduction the following year so it's best to do it while they don't look desperate.

And he'll be 34 or 35 if they wait too.

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11-25-2012, 08:28 PM
  #921
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The problem is the vast majority of deals proposed here we do not benefit. Based on the deal you deemed "too much." A reduction of that equates to Kadri and a first. Pretty underwhelm to say nothing else. If even that is considered "too much" than what benefit are we getting?
The benefit as well as asssets, may be the most improtant, and that is cap space. All signs points to the cap lowering, and teams having to make adjustments to meet this. If Lou had a much lower cap hit, why would the Nucks trade him at all; besides him wanting to leave? Funny how some people expect the Cannucks to yeild a large return in a trade for Lou, and get out from the cap hit, and save the Nucks team millions of dollars long term. All that on a player that is in his early thirties and may not have many years at the top of his game left. Talk about dreaming in technocolour.


Last edited by spiny norman: 11-25-2012 at 08:33 PM. Reason: corrected [/B][/QUOTE]
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11-25-2012, 08:31 PM
  #922
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If they are committed to Schneider, holding onto Luongo for another year will potentially destroy whatever value he has now.

They'll have a year to deal with a cap reduction the following year so it's best to do it while they don't look desperate.

And he'll be 34 or 35 if they wait too.
My guess is Luongo will be the starter until he's traded.

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11-25-2012, 08:33 PM
  #923
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It really isn't a stupid question. These remarks keep coming up as fact....one would think at least one example could be given.
Lets just say he failed to upgrade the teams CLEAR weakness.

I don't have to name some goalie who was available 10 years ago, I just have to tell you those Vancouver teams had a chance, and that chance would have been greatly improved had Burkie shored up his weakness.

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11-25-2012, 08:33 PM
  #924
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Originally Posted by marty111
The benefit as well as asssets, may be the most improtant, and that is cap space. All signs points to the cap lowering, and teams having to make adjustments to meet this. If Lou had a much lower cap hit, why would the Nucks trade him at all; besides him wanting to leave? Funny how some people expect the Cannucks to yeild a large return in a trade for Lou, and get out from the cap hit, and save the Nucks team millions of dollars long term. All that on a player that is in his early thirties and may not have many years at the top of his game left. Talk about dreaming in technocolour.
The Canucks don't need the cap space though. We're not trading him because of cap reasons, we're trading him because we have a glut of talent at a position where only one elite player is needed, so if we can convert that player into a return that makes us a better team, then we'll do it. So prospective teams would have to give up something that makes us better if they want him.(which is fair, as there's no doubt whatever team gets him will also become a much better team as well)


Last edited by Vankiller Whale: 11-25-2012 at 08:50 PM. Reason: Quote got messed up
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11-25-2012, 08:35 PM
  #925
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My guess is Luongo will be the starter until he's traded.
I think so too. People think Luongo's lost the starter job because of three games.

I have a feeling Luongo will get the nod as starter until either he or Schneider will be traded.

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