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The new All Purpose Lu Thread (MOD Warning in OP)

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Old
11-25-2012, 08:36 PM
  #926
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Originally Posted by DJOpus;56029655[B
]Can someone tell me what the Canucks downside is for keeping Luongo for a year?[/B]We all know that Schneider hasn't proven that he can carry the load as a starter yet, why not let him prove it with a reliable goalie ready to take-over if he falters?

Does anyone honestly think that Luongo won't try his best to win back his starters role? It's not like he was a bad goalie last year, it's just that Schneider has been better than any NHL goalie in his limited action over the last two years.
I suppose keeping Lou while he continues to get older, maintaining the cap hit, having management pay him starting goalie salary, while spliting top line duties, all while teams look at other ways to address their goalie needs, with upcoming UFA's next year, will really help hold and increase his value. That doesnt mean the Nucks should trade him for anything, but the notion to keep Lou with the expectation of him being moved at a later date for the same value or more is delusional. Good luck with that,

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11-25-2012, 08:37 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
The benefit as well as asssets, may be the most improtant, and that is cap space. All signs points to the cap lowering, and teams having to make adjustments to meet this. If Lou had a much lower cap hit, why would the Nucks trade him at all; besides him wanting to leave? Funny how some people expect the Cannucks to yeild a large return in a trade for Lou, and get out from the cap hit, and save the Nucks team millions of dollars long term. All that on a player that is in his early thirties and may not have many years at the top of his game left. Talk about dreaming in technocolour.

The Canucks don't need the cap space though. We're not trading him because of cap reasons, we're trading him because we have a glut of talent at a position where only one elite player is needed, so if we can convert that player into a return that makes us a better team, then we'll do it. So prospective teams would have to give up something that makes us better if they want him.(which is fair, as there's no doubt whatever team gets him will also become a much better team as well)
Honestly this is pretty well put but I doubt Lou goes for futures. VAN should be in win now mode which is why I don't get why you guys are asking for guys like Kadri, Finn, etc. Unless you plan to flip these assets for immediate help.

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11-25-2012, 08:38 PM
  #928
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Originally Posted by Shawnathon View Post
My guess is Luongo will be the starter until he's traded.
Not trying to be an ass, but what does that have to do with anything?

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11-25-2012, 08:40 PM
  #929
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Originally Posted by Mystifo View Post
Honestly this is pretty well put but I doubt Lou goes for futures. VAN should be in win now mode which is why I don't get why you guys are asking for guys like Kadri, Finn, etc.
Because there's only 4 players on TO that help us more that Luongo:

Kessel, Phaneuf, Grabovski and arguably Lupul.

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11-25-2012, 08:40 PM
  #930
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Originally Posted by Mystifo View Post
Honestly this is pretty well put but I doubt Lou goes for futures. VAN should be in win now mode which is why I don't get why you guys are asking for guys like Kadri, Finn, etc. Unless you plan to flip these assets for immediate help.
They are in win now mode but the Leafs don't have any tradeable assets that would make the team. At least a first round pick can be traded again for something that can help this year.

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11-25-2012, 08:41 PM
  #931
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Originally Posted by Mystifo View Post
Honestly this is pretty well put but I doubt Lou goes for futures. VAN should be in win now mode which is why I don't get why you guys are asking for guys like Kadri, Finn, etc. Unless you plan to flip these assets for immediate help.
Well I've from the start wanted someone like Lupul to be the centrepiece coming back. Lupul, JVR, Phaneuf, Grabovski, are all deemed untouchable by most Leafs fans(and Kulemin by a good number as well).

Any of those players would make a lot more sense to target moreso than futures imo. A 1st I also wouldn't mind as part of a package as it's likely we could flip it for a rental like Perry at the deadline, but overall I'd far prefer the return to be "now" oriented.

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11-25-2012, 08:42 PM
  #932
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
The benefit as well as asssets, may be the most improtant, and that is cap space. All signs points to the cap lowering, and teams having to make adjustments to meet this. If Lou had a much lower cap hit, why would the Nucks trade him at all; besides him wanting to leave? Funny how some people expect the Cannucks to yeild a large return in a trade for Lou, and get out from the cap hit, and save the Nucks team millions of dollars long term. All that on a player that is in his early thirties and may not have many years at the top of his game left. Talk about dreaming in technocolour.

The Canucks don't need the cap space though. We're not trading him because of cap reasons, we're trading him because we have a glut of talent at a position where only one elite player is needed, so if we can convert that player into a return that makes us a better team, then we'll do it. So prospective teams would have to give up something that makes us better if they want him.(which is fair, as there's no doubt whatever team gets him will also become a much better team as well)
This isn't completely true. IF the Canuck's want to add any significant pieces this year, they need to move salary. It makes the most sense to move salary from a position that cannot play every game.

But they are a very good team right now so the argument could be made they don't need an upgrade.

However, the year after they may very well need to get creative. I won't get into the semantics of the cap situation, but those who advocate Luongo can stay for a while also have to consider he'll be aging as they wait for the right deal, which will also decrease the return.

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11-25-2012, 08:43 PM
  #933
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Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
Because there's only 4 players on TO that help us more that Luongo:

Kessel, Phaneuf, Grabovski...
Add in JVR and delete Lupul............but yeah only a few players that could crack the current roster, and none are really available.

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11-25-2012, 08:44 PM
  #934
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Well I've from the start wanted someone like Lupul to be the centrepiece coming back. Lupul, JVR, Phaneuf, Grabovski, are all deemed untouchable by most Leafs fans(and Kulemin by a good number as well).

Any of those players would make a lot more sense to target moreso than futures imo. A 1st I also wouldn't mind as part of a package as it's likely we could flip it for a rental like Perry at the deadline, but overall I'd far prefer the return to be "now" oriented.
I'm surprised, he should be expendable for Lu IMO. I'd rather trade Kules than Kadri and I think Vancouver fans would agree with that.

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11-25-2012, 08:46 PM
  #935
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Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
This isn't completely true. IF the Canuck's want to add any significant pieces this year, they need to move salary. It makes the most sense to move salary from a position that cannot play every game.

But they are a very good team right now so the argument could be made they don't need an upgrade.

However, the year after they may very well need to get creative. I won't get into the semantics of the cap situation, but those who advocate Luongo can stay for a while also have to consider he'll be aging as they wait for the right deal, which will also decrease the return.
If we need to add significant pieces we can lose salary by letting Raymond and Malhotra walk and filling their places with players like Kassian or Schroeder on ELCs. Ballard might also be moved for cap space. That's already more than we'd save from trading Luongo. And as of now there aren't any options available to upgrade our roster. And there may never be.

I also think that if we go into the season with both there's a much greater chance we end up trading Schneider.

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11-25-2012, 08:46 PM
  #936
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Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
This isn't completely true. IF the Canuck's want to add any significant pieces this year, they need to move salary. It makes the most sense to move salary from a position that cannot play every game.

But they are a very good team right now so the argument could be made they don't need an upgrade.

However, the year after they may very well need to get creative. I won't get into the semantics of the cap situation, but those who advocate Luongo can stay for a while also have to consider he'll be aging as they wait for the right deal, which will also decrease the return.
This.

The cap is likely to go down, and Edler will get a significant raise. The Canucks cannot afford to keep Luongo and Schneider for more than one year. The longer they hold onto both, the more their hand gets forced and the lower the return on a potential Luongo deal becomes.

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11-25-2012, 08:48 PM
  #937
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
The benefit as well as asssets, may be the most improtant, and that is cap space. All signs points to the cap lowering, and teams having to make adjustments to meet this. If Lou had a much lower cap hit, why would the Nucks trade him at all; besides him wanting to leave? Funny how some people expect the Cannucks to yeild a large return in a trade for Lou, and get out from the cap hit, and save the Nucks team millions of dollars long term. All that on a player that is in his early thirties and may not have many years at the top of his game left. Talk about dreaming in technocolour.

The Canucks don't need the cap space though. We're not trading him because of cap reasons, we're trading him because we have a glut of talent at a position where only one elite player is needed, so if we can convert that player into a return that makes us a better team, then we'll do it. So prospective teams would have to give up something that makes us better if they want him.(which is fair, as there's no doubt whatever team gets him will also become a much better team as well)
There have been approximate numbers being proposed in a potential new CBA that would have a cap hit in the neighborhood of 60 million. If that were the case next year, I guess the cap hit of 55 million next year for the Cannucks with 4 NHL d signed for next year, and 13 players under contract should be quite easy to fit under the cap, while allocating 9.3 million for two goalies, while only one can play at a time makes sense? Like it or not, teams will have to make adjustments, and to assume that having potentially 1/6 of your cap used towards two goalies, (when only one can play at a time, but you take the cap hit of both) and carry a long term cap hit on an aging player is good/smart business has no logic. Good luck with that, and to think teams are salavating at the notion of taking a huge contract on like Lou, who is getting older, is not realistic.

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11-25-2012, 08:55 PM
  #938
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
If we need to add significant pieces we can lose salary by letting Raymond and Malhotra walk and filling their places with players like Kassian or Schroeder on ELCs. Ballard might also be moved for cap space. That's already more than we'd save from trading Luongo. And as of now there aren't any options available to upgrade our roster. And there may never be.

I also think that if we go into the season with both there's a much greater chance we end up trading Schneider.
Getting rid of Raymond and Malhotra saves 5M but then replaced with Kassian & Schroeder at 2M = 3M.

I'm also not confident that if the Canuck's were under cap trouble that they would get much of any value to move Ballard.

Plus contract raises of Edler and adding another defenseman and the savings really go nowhere.

It just makes no sense dumping guys for little to no return and decreasing the skill level of the team to keep Lu or Schneider around when they split games.

EDIT: An we are talking within the next seasons time to make these moves. Lu will be 34 or 35 and that alone will hurt his return.

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11-25-2012, 08:56 PM
  #939
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Originally Posted by blankall View Post
This.

The cap is likely to go down, and Edler will get a significant raise. The Canucks cannot afford to keep Luongo and Schneider for more than one year. The longer they hold onto both, the more their hand gets forced and the lower the return on a potential Luongo deal becomes.
Malhotra's salary covers any raise Edler gets. Raymond will be gone and there is always a possibility of dumping Ballard. We have a number of ELC players looking to break into the lineup, namely: Jensen, Kassian and Schroeder. Unless the cap dips significantly, say to something around 62M. We have more than enough to balance Luongo's contract and maintain our current roster. In fact, we could even add.

I do not get why other fans become so engrossed in explaining our team to us. Odds are far more than likely we have a superior grasp than you. Therefore, I will say, for the umpteenth time no less, Luongo is not going to be a salary dump. Either you offer us something meaningful, or we simply keep him. If Kadri++ or Lupul is too much. Alright, we part ways and good luck with Reimer.

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11-25-2012, 08:59 PM
  #940
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Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
Getting rid of Raymond and Malhotra saves 5M but then replaced with Kassian & Schroeder at 2M = 3M.

I'm also not confident that if the Canuck's were under cap trouble that they would get much of any value to move Ballard.

Plus contract raises of Edler and adding another defenseman and the savings really go nowhere.

It just makes no sense dumping guys for little to no return and decreasing the skill level of the team to keep Lu or Schneider around when they split games.

EDIT: An we are talking within the next seasons time to make these moves. Lu will be 34 or 35 and that alone will hurt his return.
And replacing Luongo with Lack is another million, plus whatever salary sent back our way as well. It's really not a neccessity to trade Luongo to stay under the cap. If it does go to 60 mil, the Canucks would be far from the worst team capwise.

And as I said, if we go into the season with both goaltenders, I think the odds we trade Schneider increase dramatically.

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11-25-2012, 09:00 PM
  #941
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There have been approximate numbers being proposed in a potential new CBA that would have a cap hit in the neighborhood of 60 million. If that were the case next year, I guess the cap hit of 55 million next year for the Cannucks with 4 NHL d signed for next year, and 13 players under contract should be quite easy to fit under the cap, while allocating 9.3 million for two goalies, while only one can play at a time makes sense? Like it or not, teams will have to make adjustments, and to assume that having potentially 1/6 of your cap used towards two goalies, (when only one can play at a time, but you take the cap hit of both) and carry a long term cap hit on an aging player is good/smart business has no logic. Good luck with that, and to think teams are salavating at the notion of taking a huge contract on like Lou, who is getting older, is not realistic.
I know Vankiller would agree, but they should just trade Schneider.

You can't convince Canuck fans into a deal that works for both VAN and TO for Lu, and they advocate Lu is on a good contract, can play to an elite level till 38ish and may very well bet the better goalie of the two.

For a significant upgrade they are looking for, put Schneider on the market and they will get something very good. Even team likes Toronto can offer better value as a goalie like Schneider makes more sense going forward consider his age.

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11-25-2012, 09:04 PM
  #942
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Malhotra's salary covers any raise Edler gets. Raymond will be gone and there is always a possibility of dumping Ballard. We have a number of ELC players looking to break into the lineup, namely: Jensen, Kassian and Schroeder. Unless the cap dips significantly, say to something around 62M. We have more than enough to balance Luongo's contract and maintain our current roster. In fact, we could even add.

I do not get why other fans become so engrossed in explaining our team to us. Odds are far more than likely we have a superior grasp than you. Therefore, I will say, for the umpteenth time no less, Luongo is not going to be a salary dump. Either you offer us something meaningful, or we simply keep him. If Kadri++ or Lupul is too much. Alright, we part ways and good luck with Reimer.
Lappiere and Higgins' contracts are also up. No way you are going to be able to retain or bring in anyone capable of those roles for their current combined 2.9 million. They will counter any savings you get from letting Raymond and Malhotra go.

Moving Ballard is a possibilty, however. That being said, noone knows exactly how much the cap is going to go down. Moving Ballard may not be enough.

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11-25-2012, 09:04 PM
  #943
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I know Vankiller would agree, but they should just trade Schneider.

You can't convince Canuck fans into a deal that works for both VAN and TO for Lu, and they advocate Lu is on a good contract, can play to an elite level till 38ish and may very well bet the better goalie of the two.

For a significant upgrade they are looking for, put Schneider on the market and they will get something very good. Even team likes Toronto can offer better value as a goalie like Schneider makes more sense going forward consider his age.
We agreed to Kadri+1st+Connolly a while back. Jussayin'

I'm all for trading Schneider but than we shift into Gardiner, JVR and Lupul territory, and you'd be adding to any one of them. Leaf fans have never quite liked that, thus talks break down.

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11-25-2012, 09:04 PM
  #944
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Malhotra's salary covers any raise Edler gets. Raymond will be gone and there is always a possibility of dumping Ballard. We have a number of ELC players looking to break into the lineup, namely: Jensen, Kassian and Schroeder. Unless the cap dips significantly, say to something around 62M. We have more than enough to balance Luongo's contract and maintain our current roster. In fact, we could even add.

I do not get why other fans become so engrossed in explaining our team to us. Odds are far more than likely we have a superior grasp than you. Therefore, I will say, for the umpteenth time no less, Luongo is not going to be a salary dump. Either you offer us something meaningful, or we simply keep him. If Kadri++ or Lupul is too much. Alright, we part ways and good luck with Reimer.
You do realize you have no control of the situation, and whether a trade does or does not happen, it will involve the likes of Gillis, Nucks management, Burke, Nonis and others. Not any posters here. Last I checked the Nucks have 13 players under contract for next season, with 4 NHL D signed and a total cap hit of 55 million. Good luck with that if you think that leaves plenty of cap space left to re-sign Edler, fill those roster spots, keep paying Lou for spliting games, especially if the cap does fall into the 60 million range as has been suggested.


Last edited by spiny norman: 11-25-2012 at 09:11 PM. Reason: corrected [/B][/QUOTE]
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11-25-2012, 09:05 PM
  #945
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Malhotra's salary covers any raise Edler gets. Raymond will be gone and there is always a possibility of dumping Ballard. We have a number of ELC players looking to break into the lineup, namely: Jensen, Kassian and Schroeder. Unless the cap dips significantly, say to something around 62M. We have more than enough to balance Luongo's contract and maintain our current roster. In fact, we could even add.

I do not get why other fans become so engrossed in explaining our team to us. Odds are far more than likely we have a superior grasp than you. Therefore, I will say, for the umpteenth time no less, Luongo is not going to be a salary dump. Either you offer us something meaningful, or we simply keep him. If Kadri++ or Lupul is too much. Alright, we part ways and good luck with Reimer.
We're just doing the math, not much else.

I've looked at it and a Canuck's team at 62M cap isn't one that can improve from what they have now.

Keeping Lu and Schneider and ducking under 62m also doesn't solve the problem of the two goalies they now which at some point has to be fixed.

I don't want to debate on the value of Lu, but if he is such an elite goalie like you are defending him as, then just trade Schneider for something significant as everyone will be able to agree on that.

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11-25-2012, 09:06 PM
  #946
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We agreed to Kadri+1st+Connolly a while back. Jussayin'

I'm all for trading Schneider but than we shift into Gardiner, JVR and Lupul territory, and you'd be adding to any one of them. Leaf fans have never quite liked that, thus talks break down.
Not me.

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11-25-2012, 09:09 PM
  #947
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Lappiere and Higgins' contracts are also up. No way you are going to be able to retain or bring in anyone capable of those roles for their current combined 2.9 million. They will counter any savings you get from letting Raymond and Malhotra go.

Moving Ballard is a possibilty, however. That being said, noone knows exactly how much the cap is going to go down. Moving Ballard may not be enough.
Neither Lapierre or Higgins will covet much of a raise, if any. At best they see a few 100k. I wouldn't be surprised we bring them both in around 3.5 million and even that may be high.

Aye, hence why I added an if to my post. Frankly, I see no scenario where the cap goes much below what it is currently. Despite what the league claims, they are not going to upheaval teams and basically force them to accept literally nothing to save cap. Doing so would destroy many of the top end teams, which sort of drive their revenue.

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11-25-2012, 09:10 PM
  #948
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Not me.
Right, so good luck with Reimer.

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11-25-2012, 09:11 PM
  #949
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We're just doing the math, not much else.

I've looked at it and a Canuck's team at 62M cap isn't one that can improve from what they have now.

Keeping Lu and Schneider and ducking under 62m also doesn't solve the problem of the two goalies they now which at some point has to be fixed.

I don't want to debate on the value of Lu, but if he is such an elite goalie like you are defending him as, then just trade Schneider for something significant as everyone will be able to agree on that.
To be fair, how many cap-spending teams could improve if the cap were to go down by 10 mil?

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11-25-2012, 09:14 PM
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We're just doing the math, not much else.

I've looked at it and a Canuck's team at 62M cap isn't one that can improve from what they have now.

Keeping Lu and Schneider and ducking under 62m also doesn't solve the problem of the two goalies they now which at some point has to be fixed.

I don't want to debate on the value of Lu, but if he is such an elite goalie like you are defending him as, then just trade Schneider for something significant as everyone will be able to agree on that.
Boston, Minnesota, Vancouver, Calgary, Philadelphia, San Jose, Chicago, Buffalo.

Welcome to all the teams screwed under a 62M cap. And this does not account for teams forced to remain stagnate. Still think the league will drop the cap that low?

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