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Red Sox/MLB 2012 Thread Part XX-Time for Rebuilding

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Old
11-25-2012, 09:04 PM
  #451
kman22
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Originally Posted by 24giovanni View Post
PARIRROJAS NEWS: # RedSox close to signing Mike Napoli, after meeting with the player this weekend. # MLB # RedSoxNation
This is good news, even more so if it means that they will avoid Swisher. Maybe they will target Pena now to platoon at first.

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11-25-2012, 09:05 PM
  #452
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Originally Posted by kman22 View Post
This is good news, even more so if it means that they will avoid Swisher. Maybe they will target Pena now to platoon at first.
https://twitter.com/Jen_Royle/status/272892535142244352

They are not close RT “@Dan_OMara: @Marino_Pepen tweeted that the Sox are close to signing Napoli. Can you confirm this?”

Who knows what to believe.

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11-25-2012, 09:13 PM
  #453
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Originally Posted by kman22 View Post
This is good news, even more so if it means that they will avoid Swisher. Maybe they will target Pena now to platoon at first.
I like Pena if the terms are right. Nice weapon off the bench if you need a homer, and your definately going to need his gold glove late if you sign Nappoli

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11-26-2012, 01:35 AM
  #454
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We have a great farm system. 2nd round picks rarely pan out. Nick Swisher is an extraordinary clubhouse guy, can play both RF and 1B, is a switch hitter, and gets on base at a great clip. And who is to say we won't be contending this year? All it really would take is a bounce back year from Lester and some improvement out of Doubront. And maybe Bard regaining shape as the setup man. None of that is out of the realm of possibility.

Our lineup is fine, as long as Ellsbury, Pedroia, and Ortiz are fully healthy. Teams have won it all with less.

#TeamSwisher

Revenge for Damon.


Last edited by CDJ*: 11-26-2012 at 01:43 AM.
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11-26-2012, 08:20 AM
  #455
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We have a great farm system. 2nd round picks rarely pan out. Nick Swisher is an extraordinary clubhouse guy, can play both RF and 1B, is a switch hitter, and gets on base at a great clip. And who is to say we won't be contending this year? All it really would take is a bounce back year from Lester and some improvement out of Doubront. And maybe Bard regaining shape as the setup man. None of that is out of the realm of possibility.

Our lineup is fine, as long as Ellsbury, Pedroia, and Ortiz are fully healthy. Teams have won it all with less.

#TeamSwisher

Revenge for Damon.
There's no comparison in those signings...Losing Damon was a kick in the balls to the Sox. Losing Swisher for the Yankees is fine, most of those fans want him gone anyways fwiw.

That being said, I'd be on board with it if the money is right.

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11-26-2012, 08:51 AM
  #456
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I'm on board with Swisher because he could fill any or all of a number of need positions. We have needs at LF, RF and 1B right now, and Swisher can play all 3 of those positions pretty well, and will hit. So it's a lower risk move because he's not blocking any one player right now -- if Bradley, say, gets hot enough to deserve a roster spot, you slide Swisher to 1B. And in the meantime, it makes getting Papi into the lineup for NL games much simpler. Just bench your worst corner OF.

In other words, unlike the stupidity of the Gonzalez trade, signing Swisher actually increases your options and versatility. That's a nice bonus when you consider you're also adding a very solid bat.

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11-26-2012, 10:50 AM
  #457
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Swisher

Here's what scares me:

The vast majority (80%+) of his home runs have come from the left side. Though 50% of his home runs have been on the road, considering that his left-handed HR's at Yankee Stadium at least were hit in a joke of a ballpark, I think that probably translates to roughly 6-10 total home runs at Fenway next season. Add that to an average of roughly 10-12 road HR's and you've got a 16-22 home run guy.

Now if you argue those numbers are just a hair low, if he comes to Boston we are looking at a 20-ish HR guy, not a 25+ guy. So while he may add flexibility, OPS, (unbelievably annoying demeanor) and apparent "clubhouse" positives, we need to be wary of how much to spend for that production.

End of the day he is unfortunately, probably the best offensive option out there for this team (assuming they stay clear of Hamilton). But it seems as though a few seasons in a little league ballpark are going to get him overpaid by his next employer.

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11-26-2012, 11:14 AM
  #458
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Are they still talking with Jason Bay? Maybe as a utility OF.

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11-26-2012, 11:19 AM
  #459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDJ View Post
We have a great farm system. 2nd round picks rarely pan out. Nick Swisher is an extraordinary clubhouse guy, can play both RF and 1B, is a switch hitter, and gets on base at a great clip. And who is to say we won't be contending this year? All it really would take is a bounce back year from Lester and some improvement out of Doubront. And maybe Bard regaining shape as the setup man. None of that is out of the realm of possibility.

Our lineup is fine, as long as Ellsbury, Pedroia, and Ortiz are fully healthy. Teams have won it all with less.

#TeamSwisher

Revenge for Damon.
I'd rather have Napoli, pena and an assortment of outfielders that you take fliers on than swisher. He batted in the bottom half of the yankees lineup. If the sox are competing as presently constructed plus swisher, it seems like he'd be a top half of the lineup guy. Then the yankees get gardner back and a pick.

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11-26-2012, 11:51 AM
  #460
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Originally Posted by kman22 View Post
.

I'd rather have Napoli, pena and an assortment of outfielders that you take fliers on than swisher. He batted in the bottom half of the yankees lineup. If the sox are competing as presently constructed plus swisher, it seems like he'd be a top half of the lineup guy. Then the yankees get gardner back and a pick.
Not sure why it matters WHERE he hit in the NYY order, but he hit there because the top of the order was flat-out stacked. He'd hit higher in our order, but not by much.
He's probably our #5-#6 hitter if we had him today, so it's not like we're asking him to do much more than he did in New York.

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11-26-2012, 12:20 PM
  #461
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Originally Posted by bp13 View Post
Here's what scares me:

The vast majority (80%+) of his home runs have come from the left side. Though 50% of his home runs have been on the road, considering that his left-handed HR's at Yankee Stadium at least were hit in a joke of a ballpark, I think that probably translates to roughly 6-10 total home runs at Fenway next season. Add that to an average of roughly 10-12 road HR's and you've got a 16-22 home run guy.

Now if you argue those numbers are just a hair low, if he comes to Boston we are looking at a 20-ish HR guy, not a 25+ guy. So while he may add flexibility, OPS, (unbelievably annoying demeanor) and apparent "clubhouse" positives, we need to be wary of how much to spend for that production.

End of the day he is unfortunately, probably the best offensive option out there for this team (assuming they stay clear of Hamilton). But it seems as though a few seasons in a little league ballpark are going to get him overpaid by his next employer.
Understandable, but he also put 35 out in Oakland one year, which is pretty difficult to do.

And people have to remember that it is not exactly all that easy to put one out to left at Yankee Stadium (or at least it pales in comparison to right). I figure that a decline in homers from the left said would happen, but an increase from the right side would too as a product of playing in Fenway.

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11-26-2012, 01:06 PM
  #462
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Understandable, but he also put 35 out in Oakland one year, which is pretty difficult to do.

And people have to remember that it is not exactly all that easy to put one out to left at Yankee Stadium (or at least it pales in comparison to right). I figure that a decline in homers from the left said would happen, but an increase from the right side would too as a product of playing in Fenway.
Left field isn't all that tough in Yankee stadium either, and frankly, he doesn't have much power to left. But right field is quite simply a joke. All tolled we might see him hit a few more to left than he otherwise would, but the homers from his power side would decline a great deal.

And while that Oakland number is impressive, it's also an old number. Meaning who knows what kind of 'help' he had, and he was a bit younger too.

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11-26-2012, 01:39 PM
  #463
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I would like both Napoli & Swisher on the right deals. If they sign both, our line-up is back to being pretty respectable when everyone is healthy.

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11-26-2012, 01:50 PM
  #464
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Yankee fans aren't stupid.

They know when a guy sucks and when he doesn't.

They can't wait for Swisher to leave.

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11-26-2012, 02:01 PM
  #465
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Yankee fans aren't stupid.

They know when a guy sucks and when he doesn't.

They can't wait for Swisher to leave.
Yup.

They're smart enough fans for sure, but just like Sox fans they can tire of players and fail to see their value. In other words, I wouldn't want my GM to not sign a player just because fans of his old team couldn't wait to see him go. I mean he's still an upgrade over Kalish.

Caveat there is that I'm not convinced that you might not be an upgrade over Kalish.


Last edited by bp13: 11-26-2012 at 02:26 PM.
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11-26-2012, 02:02 PM
  #466
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Sign Granderson next offseason instead of Swisher.

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11-26-2012, 02:27 PM
  #467
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Sign Granderson next offseason instead of Swisher.
No thanks on that one. The guy has killed his swing in order to take advantage of that little league field. His homers will die in Fenway.

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11-26-2012, 02:34 PM
  #468
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Sign Granderson next offseason instead of Swisher.
Not a big Granderson fan. Low OBP and batting avg. Either a strike out or home run type hitter. If the Sox are gonna spend big on a centerfielder I'd rather have them go the extra mile and re-sign Ellsbury. Swisher is cheaper, gets on base, and more versatile than Granderson. For all of Granderson's home runs he only posted 13 more RBI's than Swisher this past season. I think Swisher would be a great clubhouse fit to, seems to have a Johnny Damon like personality, this clubhouse needs to lighten up a little.

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11-26-2012, 03:33 PM
  #469
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Napoli wants 5 years, no thanks.

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11-26-2012, 03:47 PM
  #470
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My wishlist:

1. Josh Hamilton

2. Zack Greinke

3. Edwin Jackson

4. Justin Masterson

5. Mike Napoli

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11-26-2012, 04:01 PM
  #471
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Greinke would have a mental breakdown here and the Sox have already ruled him out.

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11-26-2012, 04:48 PM
  #472
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Not sure why it matters WHERE he hit in the NYY order, but he hit there because the top of the order was flat-out stacked. He'd hit higher in our order, but not by much.
He's probably our #5-#6 hitter if we had him today, so it's not like we're asking him to do much more than he did in New York.
That's why it matters. They get gardner back, and their lineup is much stronger than ours. If the red sox are going to contend with a weaker lineup and at least the same amount of questions in the rotation, I'm not sure where their edge is exactly.

They finished last in the division with half a season of Agon, does swisher really make up for that departure, plus the huge gap in the standings. I doubt it, so i wouldn't burn a draft pick for him. That goes for the other qualified free agents, save for hamilton on the right deal.

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11-26-2012, 05:02 PM
  #473
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That's why it matters. They get gardner back, and their lineup is much stronger than ours. If the red sox are going to contend with a weaker lineup and at least the same amount of questions in the rotation, I'm not sure where their edge is exactly.

They finished last in the division with half a season of Agon, does swisher really make up for that departure, plus the huge gap in the standings. I doubt it, so i wouldn't burn a draft pick for him. That goes for the other qualified free agents, save for hamilton on the right deal.
I think he makes up for the Adrian Gonzalez that was hitting in our line-up last year. He only hit 15 home runs after all!! Maybe he doesn't replace the guy from 2011 though.

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11-26-2012, 05:09 PM
  #474
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If we sign Napoli I feel like we aren't going to go for Swisher, and I hope we don't. I'm not much of a Swisher fan plus he's getting interest from other clubs too which could raise up his price.

Searching around, I hear the Pirates need a Catcher. What would you guys think about trading Salty and a relief pitcher for Garrett Jones? He could play both 1st Base and Right Field. Just a thought anyways. Let me know what you guys think because I wouldn't mind if that's what it would take to get him.

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11-26-2012, 06:09 PM
  #475
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hopefully we do make a serious run at Hamilton. I'll feel much better about our lineup with him in it.

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