got a question for Flames fan, Why are they always going off the board with long term prospect?
Do management think the crop of star players at the NHL level will still be going strong in 7-8 years? That's my problem with picks like Jankowski and Gaudreau. They may pan out, but not for a long time.
When the Flames were going after tough, western Canadian grinders, the team drafted terribly. Picks like Chucko, Pelech, they all amounted to nothing.
If we're going to pick after 10, I'd rather go full boom or bust. 3rd and 4th liners can easily be found in free agency.
I don't hate the Flames, I'm just perplexed by some of their choices. You have to admit their track record isn't the best in the NHL. That being said they did alright in recent years.
I'm not saying Jankowski is a bust, I do think he has great potential. It's just that I think Calgary should go for more polished prospect as they will sorely need help sooner rather then later.
and your right 4 round isn't bad I thought he was drafted sooner.
Sutter saw a problem with our drafting and slowly began turning it around the current scheme really started around 2007/2008 (but Sutter was still trading our picks away).
Unfortunately it's hard to show the track record of a staff that's only had 5 or 6 drafts. We haven't had any top 10 picks that could immediately jump into the nhl so instead we're picking guys who long term could fill that top 10. ie. Backlund, Erixon, Sven, and Janko. (Nemisz was seen as a bit of a replacement pick after his late teammate RIP Mickey )
got a question for Flames fan, Why are they always going off the board with long term prospect?
Do management think the crop of star players at the NHL level will still be going strong in 7-8 years? That's my problem with picks like Jankowski and Gaudreau. They may pan out, but not for a long time.
I'm more optimistic than most about Gaudreau's time frame on making the NHL. His style isn't that dependent on strength anyway, but the rest of his game is very polished and looks to be very translatable.
The way I see it is he can do a million squats a day, he's still gonna get pushed around in the corners. That will never be his game so I don't think that his strength should be what's holding him back, especially if he's effective regardless of strength, which he has been at every level so far.
Kids never finish college if they can go pro early. Right now Gaudreau is destroying the NCAA so it might be time soon for him to face a bigger challenge, and see how his game translates to the AHL.
I don't hate the Flames, I'm just perplexed by some of their choices. You have to admit their track record isn't the best in the NHL. That being said they did alright in recent years.
I'm not saying Jankowski is a bust, I do think he has great potential. It's just that I think Calgary should go for more polished prospect as they will sorely need help sooner rather then later.
and your right 4 round isn't bad I thought he was drafted sooner.
Past drafting record is always indicative of current standards or the future. This is one of Hfboards biggest misconceptions that somehow still persists.
Teams change management, and scouting staff. The Flames did this and it shows. In the past few drafts the scouting has been much improved.
You can't use past failures as an argument for future ones. It doesn't make sense when drafting strategy has changed and the people instituting it has changed.
IMO it's smart for the Flames to go boom or bust with their picks because they haven't had a top ten pick in a long time so instead of going for the Mark MacNeil's they go for the Bartschi's, Jankowski's, etc. However It's still kind of funny that they traded down and didn't take Teravainen.
IMO it's smart for the Flames to go boom or bust with their picks because they haven't had a top ten pick in a long time so instead of going for the Mark MacNeil's they go for the Bartschi's, Jankowski's, etc. However It's still kind of funny that they traded down and didn't take Teravainen.
At first I wanted TT as well.
But you have a safe pick in Sieloff and the boom/bust pick in Janko rather than the one slightly safer boom/bust pick in TT. Plus TT is a winger not the C that the Flames need still.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haatley
Is it really that bad? Chucko and pelech busted hard. But phaneuf is an nhl captain. Tim erixon is a top d prospect. Nemisz an still be a good 3rd liner. They rarely have had 2nd round picks. With their third a few years ago they nabbed max reinhart who looks good. Brodie was a 4th rounder who looks good. Sven is a stud.
But from Chucko and Pelech to Janko/Gaudreau and Sven, you can definitely see a change in scouting focus. Swift skaters with natural skill rather than big bruisers.
got a question for Flames fan, Why are they always going off the board with long term prospect?
Do management think the crop of star players at the NHL level will still be going strong in 7-8 years? That's my problem with picks like Jankowski and Gaudreau. They may pan out, but not for a long time.
Other guys on the board at the time (prior to trading down to 21st): Ceci (lower ceiling), Girgensons (lower ceiling), Maata (lower ceiling), Teravainen (long term as well). Neither of the d prospects, AFAIK, is expected to become anything beyond a second pairing guy, and Girgensons' ceiling is supposedly a middle-six centre.
Teravainen was similar to Jankowski, for different reasons. He's considered longer-term because of physical attributes (fairly short, very thin), while Jankowski is considered longer-term because he's just very raw and somewhat unknown coming out of a HS league. Both guys have higher projected ceilings than the other guys available at the time, and one thing the Flames desperately need is high ceiling prospects. A guy who will help in the immediate future as an average second line forward or #4 dman isn't what the team needs; they need to build a high-end core, and the Jankowski pick, while more of a risky pick, is directed at that goal.
Gaudreau, as everyone else has said, was a 4th round pick. There's nobody in the 4th round who's considered a player who will be helpful in the near future on their draft day. He was unquestionably the best choice they could've made at that position, and it looks like they'd have been entirely justified had they taken him in the earlier two rounds as well.
IMO it's smart for the Flames to go boom or bust with their picks because they haven't had a top ten pick in a long time so instead of going for the Mark MacNeil's they go for the Bartschi's, Jankowski's, etc. However It's still kind of funny that they traded down and didn't take Teravainen.
TT is overrated. Janko has produced just as well in points as TT, if not better in their said leagues. They're both similar in age for their draft, I think Janko is only like 2 weeks younger, and he's a little bit more raw just coming out of highschool hockey. When and if they make it to the NHL, it will be around the same time.
Not saying TT is bad but their is a reason that he dropped from where everyone expected him to go.
And back on topic, I'm happy with Gaudreau's progression and am astounded that anyone could say he is a 'reach' in the fourth round and a bad pick because he is a long term project? Seriously?
TT is overrated. Janko has produced just as well in points as TT, if not better in their said leagues. They're both similar in age for their draft, I think Janko is only like 2 weeks younger, and he's a little bit more raw just coming out of highschool hockey. When and if they make it to the NHL, it will be around the same time.
Not saying TT is bad but their is a reason that he dropped from where everyone expected him to go.
And back on topic, I'm happy with Gaudreau's progression and am astounded that anyone could say he is a 'reach' in the fourth round and a bad pick because he is a long term project? Seriously?
SM-Liiga and High school hockey... All the same right?
TT is overrated. Janko has produced just as well in points as TT, if not better in their said leagues. They're both similar in age for their draft, I think Janko is only like 2 weeks younger, and he's a little bit more raw just coming out of highschool hockey. When and if they make it to the NHL, it will be around the same time.
Not saying TT is bad but their is a reason that he dropped from where everyone expected him to go.
And back on topic, I'm happy with Gaudreau's progression and am astounded that anyone could say he is a 'reach' in the fourth round and a bad pick because he is a long term project? Seriously?
TT was considered a top ten pick.He is also producing in the FEL, a much more elite league then NCAA. He dropped because of the excellent d prospects taken above him. Id say look at which forwards were drafted before him
SM-Liiga is considered a tougher league than the NCAA, but their NHL equivalents (approximately how the point totals of their players tend to translate to the NHL) are ~0.5 and 0.4, respectively. It's not a massive difference. You're talking about a mid-grade pro league (better than many, but nowhere near as good as SEL, KHL, and NHL) vs the best amateur league in the world.
SM-Liiga is considered a tougher league than the NCAA, but their NHL equivalents (approximately how the point totals of their players tend to translate to the NHL) are ~0.5 and 0.4, respectively. It's not a massive difference. You're talking about a mid-grade pro league (better than many, but nowhere near as good as SEL, KHL, and NHL) vs the best amateur league in the world.
WHL, OHL QMJHL. All 3 leagues produce the highest amount of 1 & 2 rounder.
NCAA is not on that level.
Interesting to see what Russian posters think of the RHL, the feeder league to the KHL. I dont think any players from there play in the NHL but they supply alot og KHL players. I wonder how it is in comparison to NCAA.
Also, I wonder how a really good Canadian University team like UofA would do against a good NCAA team. Those university teams are almost made up of ex CHLers who are older. Whereas NCAA is made up of americans from USHL and canadians from Jr.A leagues who are 2-3 years younger.
Sure the major junior leagues have more first and second rounders, but the college teams are older, strong guys. It's not much of a difference in the level of play. NCAA tends to be a more defensive league, whereas MJ is a more wide open game. It would be great to see NCAA teams face MJ teams but unfortunately we don't get to see that. Personally I think the top teams from each league would be pretty close.
The Canadian university teams do play college teams preseason and usually get beaten by NCAA teams
Also, the NCAA is the best amateur league in the world because the leagues you listed aren't amateur leagues. They are professional because the players get paid.
Sure the major junior leagues have more first and second rounders, but the college teams are older, strong guys. It's not much of a difference in the level of play. NCAA tends to be a more defensive league, whereas MJ is a more wide open game. It would be great to see NCAA teams face MJ teams but unfortunately we don't get to see that. Personally I think the top teams from each league would be pretty close.
The Canadian university teams do play college teams preseason and usually get beaten by NCAA teams
Also, the NCAA is the best amateur league in the world because the leagues you listed aren't amateur leagues. They are professional because the players get paid.
The CHL teams have higher talent but NCAA may have more depth. But if you want to classify the CHL has "professional" because they get $44 dollars a week , then NCAA is best amatuer league. But CHL is by all means an amateur league
WHL, OHL QMJHL. All 3 leagues produce the highest amount of 1 & 2 rounder.
NCAA is not on that level.
Interesting to see what Russian posters think of the RHL, the feeder league to the KHL. I dont think any players from there play in the NHL but they supply alot og KHL players. I wonder how it is in comparison to NCAA.
Also, I wonder how a really good Canadian University team like UofA would do against a good NCAA team. Those university teams are almost made up of ex CHLers who are older. Whereas NCAA is made up of americans from USHL and canadians from Jr.A leagues who are 2-3 years younger.
An NCAA team will kill a CHL team. The potential level isn't there (hence less early draftees), but the players as a group are more polished, stronger, and more effective (in large part due to average age). They also regularly play CIS teams and wipe the floor with them.
WHL, OHL QMJHL. All 3 leagues produce the highest amount of 1 & 2 rounder.
NCAA is not on that level.
Interesting to see what Russian posters think of the RHL, the feeder league to the KHL. I dont think any players from there play in the NHL but they supply alot og KHL players. I wonder how it is in comparison to NCAA.
Also, I wonder how a really good Canadian University team like UofA would do against a good NCAA team. Those university teams are almost made up of ex CHLers who are older. Whereas NCAA is made up of americans from USHL and canadians from Jr.A leagues who are 2-3 years younger.
CIS teams would beat CHL teams 9 times out of ten. CHL teams wouldn't stand a chance against the NCAA. The age difference is simply too big.
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