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Old
11-26-2012, 02:00 PM
  #51
Oates2Neely
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gritzky98 View Post
He was putting up over a PPG on a defensive hunter coached caps last year.
I like to see stats played out over a full season. This "on pace for PPG" is weak. Backstrom is elite. He had 65 points 2 seasons ago, and was injured last season. Im not knocking him at all, Im a fan. But its certainly possible his point totals could dip a bit in a more defensive system that Julien employs. Perfect examples are Michael Ryder & Blake Wheeler who left Boston & immediately saw their point totals shoot up in a more up-temp offense. I would expect the same to happen to Krejci if he were to leave Boston to a more up-tempo offensive team.

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11-26-2012, 02:01 PM
  #52
Tim Vezina Thomas
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
one stanley cup over the period of time that the capitals have existed even being one more than the capitals have won doesnt work that well as a tool to win all lost arguments. at least not for me.

it cleanly wipes away blowing 3-0 lead to the flyers, but as the years go buy it does lose its strenth. i wonder, how many bruins players were justifying themselves after losing game 7 by saying, "yea, but see 'stanley cup 2011'?"
Grasping at straws I see.

Posting a video of beating the Bruins (a team that won the Cup the last year) isn't exactly prudent when your franchise has never won anything, ever.

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Old
11-26-2012, 02:59 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by glenbuis View Post
When it comes to playing hurt I'm sure that Seguin and Bergeron were in fact doing that in last years playoffs.
See you keep saying this, yet fail to provide any sort of proof.

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Old
11-26-2012, 03:06 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
Eh, we're over it. See "Stanley Cup 2011"
Good for you. I was responding to his claims that Backstrom was nowhere to be seen and played no part in the Caps winning the series.

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Old
11-26-2012, 03:13 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Braden Carlzner View Post
See you keep saying this, yet fail to provide any sort of proof.
I know this isn't really hard proof, but it is pretty well known that Seguin was in a cast in between games and Bergeron couldn't even lift his arm because of a shoulder injury if I am not mistaken.

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11-26-2012, 04:35 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Braden Carlzner View Post
Backstrom ... 8 points in 13 games.
Seguin ... 3 points in 7 games. (pointless in the first 5)
Bergeron... 2 points in 7 games.


Ok bud.

Is that all you got?

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Old
11-26-2012, 04:41 PM
  #57
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I would like to clarify that i did not say that Krecji and Marchand were better than Backstrom and Ovechkin. I also said that i should give Backstrom more credit. I would give up Krecji and Marchand quickly to take backstrom and as a Habs fan I would not want to see this because they have enough already. I will stand by my statement that if the PLAYOFFS were to start tonite, I would take either Bergeron or Seguin over Backstrom. I think they would play with injuries like we seen last year. If you want to consider stats , I will ask u if it bothers you that Backstrom put up 101 points in 09-10, signs a 10 year 67 million dollar contract and then rewards Washington with 65pts in 77 games the next year. Forgive me for saying but he was sure no elite top 5 center that year. I could name five centers in Pittsbugh's division that I would take before him.

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11-26-2012, 05:52 PM
  #58
Gritzky98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenbuis View Post
I would like to clarify that i did not say that Krecji and Marchand were better than Backstrom and Ovechkin. I also said that i should give Backstrom more credit. I would give up Krecji and Marchand quickly to take backstrom and as a Habs fan I would not want to see this because they have enough already. I will stand by my statement that if the PLAYOFFS were to start tonite, I would take either Bergeron or Seguin over Backstrom. I think they would play with injuries like we seen last year. If you want to consider stats , I will ask u if it bothers you that Backstrom put up 101 points in 09-10, signs a 10 year 67 million dollar contract and then rewards Washington with 65pts in 77 games the next year. Forgive me for saying but he was sure no elite top 5 center that year. I could name five centers in Pittsbugh's division that I would take before him.
What has Seguin done to prove he is a better playoff performer than Backstrom?

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11-26-2012, 06:06 PM
  #59
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Well I guess i would start by saying seguin scored key goals at key times as a rookie. He played injured the following year and just strikes me as the type that if it meant giving blood to get to the next round he would do it. I dont know how badly Backstrom and ovechkin really wanted to beat the rangers in round two to win a chance to play the devils or flyers in round three. And then if they got by all that they earn a chance to line up against Mike Richards for the cup. Now i know they dont miss having to play him all the time especially for something meaningful like in the cup finals. If they did beat the rangers, then the devils, I know they would REALLY THRIVE against a team like the Kings.

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11-26-2012, 06:11 PM
  #60
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Maybe it's just me, but I don't think Backstrom & Krecji are that far apart...

Krecji playing on a "D" first team and Backstrom playing (for years) on a "wide open"
club (and Backstrom playing on a vastly superior power play).

I think if you swapped Backstrom & Krejci - you would see Krejci's number shoot up
(playing with Ovi) and Backstrom's numbers drop...

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Old
11-26-2012, 06:25 PM
  #61
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Maybe Backstrom is the real deal and will establish himself in the playoffs yet. He may have the gonads to want to win at all costs and prove he is elite. I think that ship has sailed when it comes to Ovechkin. Or is Backstrom gonna collect his 6.7 per year and go through the motions and not shed any tears from early round exits.

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Old
11-26-2012, 07:23 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killer B View Post
Maybe it's just me, but I don't think Backstrom & Krecji are that far apart...

Krecji playing on a "D" first team and Backstrom playing (for years) on a "wide open"
club (and Backstrom playing on a vastly superior power play).

I think if you swapped Backstrom & Krejci - you would see Krejci's number shoot up
(playing with Ovi) and Backstrom's numbers drop...
You probably would see Krejci's numbers rise and Backstrom's fall, but not by a huge amount...

Krejci is a good defensively, he kills penalties in Claude's system. That counts for a lot. But he plays even strength with Lucic and Horton. Even on a defensive-minded team, that's a pretty offensive based line. The 2nd, 3rd, and 4th lines are MUCH more defensive-minded than the first. Especially with Chara usually on the ice at the same time as the first line, a lot of defensive responsibilities are taken away from them. Putting him on a more offensive-minded team and adding an elite winger, who, when on his game, has proven he's one of the best, will certainly boost his offensive totals... But Backstrom is in a completely different league than Krejci. I'm a Bruins fan and love Krejci to pieces but that's a ridiculous statement.

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11-26-2012, 07:37 PM
  #63
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Not totally related...but isn't Backstrom tearing up the khl right now with ovi missing time with bronchitis? He had a hat trick on a new team in a league where scoring is down compared to the NHL. The thing with Backstrom are how gorgeous the plays he makes. Forsberg-ing Anisimov (who is bigger) all the way to his backhand sauce passes to Chimera for a wide open net.

That was since coming back from his concussion. He's in his mid twenties and IMO the caps best and most important player.

I like Bergeron a lot. I don't think he's too far apart defensively over Backstrom...at least not enough to ignore the potential amount of offense Backstrom can and has put up.

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Old
11-26-2012, 07:42 PM
  #64
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This attack on Backstrom's will and durability is just so utterly unfounded and wrong, it's ridiculous. It makes me wonder whether the accusing parties have actually... I'm going to stop myself before I get an infraction.

I think a good place to start educating you all is with the beginning of Backstrom's NHL career. He started out of the gate in the 07-08 season and didn't miss a game, regular or post season, for over 3 and a half seasons. You don't do that by getting lucky, you do that by playing through injuries. He didn't miss a game until being slashed on his left (shooting) hand and breaking his thumb in late February of 2011. Even then, he played through the injury for over two weeks, despite being in too much pain to take a face off. He played 7 games with a broken thumb, until the pain was too great to grip his stick. At that point, after playing in 313 consecutive games, he sat out, missing 5 games. He probably should've sat out longer, because he clearly wasn't 100%, really, for the rest of the season, but he's the kind of guy that plays through injuries. People have been bringing up his point total for that season; well, in the 60 games before Letang broke his thumb, Backstrom scored 53 points. That's a 72 point pace, which, considering the drastic midseason system change and the fact that Ovie shot 3% below his career average, isn't that bad. His play in the rest of the season and the playoffs, where he scored 14 points in 26 games, was clearly the result of his playing through a broken thumb.

As for the argument that he wouldn't do well in Boston's system, without a star winger in Ovechkin, that's flawed too. Prior to his concussion, Backstrom was playing alongside an Ovechkin who was on pace for less than 30 goals, and Troy Brouwer, who was on a 30 point pace all season. He played through Boudreau's defensive system, and then Hunter's even more stifling defensive system. Still, he was over a point per game, and was on pace for over 90 points. He was driving our offense nearly singlehandedly. So if you want to know how he'll do in a defensive system without a star winger, there's your answer.

Hopefully that helps.

Edit: Oh yeah, I forgot I was going to post a couple videos. Here you go:





The latter is from last years' playoffs. I think that's the kind of play you see from a guy who's not just going through motions.


Last edited by Zoidberg Jesus: 11-26-2012 at 07:49 PM.
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Old
11-26-2012, 09:56 PM
  #65
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I am impressed with the videos. It is not hard to see why Backstrom can earn the label as Washingtons best player. I would hope for a guy who is going to earn 6.7 over the next 8 years that you could find some decent footage. It will be interesting to see over the next few years if his passion level to win in the "Playoffs" will be there or not.

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Old
11-26-2012, 10:10 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by glenbuis View Post
I am impressed with the videos. It is not hard to see why Backstrom can earn the label as Washingtons best player. I would hope for a guy who is going to earn 6.7 over the next 8 years that you could find some decent footage. It will be interesting to see over the next few years if his passion level to win in the "Playoffs" will be there or not.
you are implying that his passion for winning in the playoffs has not been there to date. is that what you are driving at? i hope not.

your boston bunch sandwiched two horrible playoff defeats around a championship. you think the passion wasnt there, then was and then disappeared again?

if winning a cup is the only proof that one particular player has the passion, then was ray bourque only passionate at the very end of his career? i dont think so.

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Old
11-26-2012, 10:56 PM
  #67
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I mentioned a few times now that i am not a Bruins fan but rather a habs fan. I am not a big believer in regular season stats. Teams that seriously want to compete for the cup need to be built for a cup run with size and toughness to go with skill guys who want it. YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY A BELIEVER THAT BACKSTROM WANTS IT. I am not completely sold yet because I have not had the oppurtunity to see him perform in the third or fourth round of the playoffs. This i will add is not his fault.

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Old
11-26-2012, 11:00 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
I like to see stats played out over a full season. This "on pace for PPG" is weak. Backstrom is elite. He had 65 points 2 seasons ago, and was injured last season. Im not knocking him at all, Im a fan. But its certainly possible his point totals could dip a bit in a more defensive system that Julien employs. Perfect examples are Michael Ryder & Blake Wheeler who left Boston & immediately saw their point totals shoot up in a more up-temp offense. I would expect the same to happen to Krejci if he were to leave Boston to a more up-tempo offensive team.
44 points in 42 games on a team where everyone else's numbers plummeted is certainly not weak. Its not like he had a 3 point game and went on IR for the rest of the season

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11-26-2012, 11:35 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by glenbuis View Post
I mentioned a few times now that i am not a Bruins fan but rather a habs fan. I am not a big believer in regular season stats. Teams that seriously want to compete for the cup need to be built for a cup run with size and toughness to go with skill guys who want it. YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY A BELIEVER THAT BACKSTROM WANTS IT. I am not completely sold yet because I have not had the oppurtunity to see him perform in the third or fourth round of the playoffs. This i will add is not his fault.
Let me get this straight... before this arbitrary line you've drawn at the end of the second round, there is nothing a player can to do to convince you that they care about winning. No post season points or game winning goals, no regular season accolades or accomplishments, nothing.

But if a rookie comes in with fresh legs after being scratched for the first two rounds and scores 3 goals in his first 2 playoff games... never mind the fact that he had nothing to do with the team getting to that point, or that he had 1 assist in the next 12 games... then you're sure he "wants it." That's what you're saying. That you can base more on two games than you can on an entire career.


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11-27-2012, 08:29 AM
  #70
Oates2Neely
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
44 points in 42 games on a team where everyone else's numbers plummeted is certainly not weak. Its not like he had a 3 point game and went on IR for the rest of the season
Ok, responding to you will make it sound like im bashing Backstrom (i'm not), but he had an impressive 09-10 season (100pts?) then followed it up with 65pts. Then he gets 44pts in 42 games and where supposed to assume that he'd score 100 again if he'd stayed healthy? It's called an 'unknown'. I HATE the "PPG" argument,, mostly used by Leaf & Oiler fans when pumping the tires of Hemsky & Lupul.

*Question: When did Hunter take over coaching duties?

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11-27-2012, 08:36 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by glenbuis View Post
I mentioned a few times now that i am not a Bruins fan but rather a habs fan. I am not a big believer in regular season stats. Teams that seriously want to compete for the cup need to be built for a cup run with size and toughness to go with skill guys who want it. YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY A BELIEVER THAT BACKSTROM WANTS IT. I am not completely sold yet because I have not had the oppurtunity to see him perform in the third or fourth round of the playoffs. This i will add is not his fault.
as i recall this chapter of the thread started with a defense of bruins players that played injured in a losing round one and suggesting that had backstrom been so injured that he wouldnt have dressed.

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Old
11-27-2012, 08:38 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Ok, responding to you will make it sound like im bashing Backstrom (i'm not), but he had an impressive 09-10 season (100pts?) then followed it up with 65pts. Then he gets 44pts in 42 games and where supposed to assume that he'd score 100 again if he'd stayed healthy? It's called an 'unknown'. I HATE the "PPG" argument,, mostly used by Leaf & Oiler fans when pumping the tires of Hemsky & Lupul.

*Question: When did Hunter take over coaching duties?
thanksgiving....american thanksgiving.

november 29 was game 1. backstrom had 17pts in 16 hunter coached games before the concussion.


Last edited by txpd: 11-27-2012 at 08:43 AM.
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Old
11-27-2012, 08:47 AM
  #73
Oates2Neely
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thanksgiving....american thanksgiving.

november 29 was game 1. backstrom had 17pts in 16 hunter coached games before the concussion.
Thats what i thought. Backstrom is certainly elite, heck of a player, but 17pts in 16 games doesnt prove to me that he'd be a 90pt player in a defensive system. Backstrom has skated with Ovechkin riding shotgun, in a WIDE open Bruce Boudreau offensive system. I think it can be debated he'd maybe see a slight decline in his point totals if he were under a coach like Julien (-10pts ?)

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Old
11-27-2012, 09:24 AM
  #74
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Thats what i thought. Backstrom is certainly elite, heck of a player, but 17pts in 16 games doesnt prove to me that he'd be a 90pt player in a defensive system. Backstrom has skated with Ovechkin riding shotgun, in a WIDE open Bruce Boudreau offensive system. I think it can be debated he'd maybe see a slight decline in his point totals if he were under a coach like Julien (-10pts ?)
you do know that the wide open bruce boudreau offense died during the long losing streak during the 24/7 runup to the winter classic two seasons ago, right? from that point til the end of that season the caps had the best defense in the nhl.

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11-27-2012, 09:36 AM
  #75
Oates2Neely
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you do know that the wide open bruce boudreau offense died during the long losing streak during the 24/7 runup to the winter classic two seasons ago, right? from that point til the end of that season the caps had the best defense in the nhl.
Meh, big difference between playing for Boudreau & playing for Julien or a Carlyle.

I like the Ribeiro addition, w/ Backstrom Ribeiro & Laich at center, I can see playoff success on the horizon. Im curious as to what Coach Oates will do with that roster. I think Ovechkin explodes back onto the NHL scene this season, Im predicting he leads the league in scoring again.

With Alzner Green & Carlson on the blueline, IF goaltending holds up, Caps should be contending for a top spot in the East.

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