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LW John Gaudreau - Boston College, HE (2011, 104th overall, Calgary)

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Old
11-26-2012, 09:47 AM
  #401
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Originally Posted by Geecko View Post
SM-Liiga and High school hockey... All the same right?
I think he's taking about their current leagues, chief.

Reading comprehension fail.

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11-26-2012, 09:50 AM
  #402
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NCAA and SM-Liiga then...

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11-26-2012, 10:08 AM
  #403
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NCAA and SM-Liiga then...
I believe he means comparably so Janko vs the average NCAA and TT vs the average SM-Liiga (although I disagree).

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11-26-2012, 10:32 AM
  #404
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TT is overrated. Janko has produced just as well in points as TT, if not better in their said leagues. They're both similar in age for their draft, I think Janko is only like 2 weeks younger, and he's a little bit more raw just coming out of highschool hockey. When and if they make it to the NHL, it will be around the same time.

Not saying TT is bad but their is a reason that he dropped from where everyone expected him to go.

And back on topic, I'm happy with Gaudreau's progression and am astounded that anyone could say he is a 'reach' in the fourth round and a bad pick because he is a long term project? Seriously?
TT was considered a top ten pick.He is also producing in the FEL, a much more elite league then NCAA. He dropped because of the excellent d prospects taken above him. Id say look at which forwards were drafted before him

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11-26-2012, 11:06 AM
  #405
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SM-Liiga is considered a tougher league than the NCAA, but their NHL equivalents (approximately how the point totals of their players tend to translate to the NHL) are ~0.5 and 0.4, respectively. It's not a massive difference. You're talking about a mid-grade pro league (better than many, but nowhere near as good as SEL, KHL, and NHL) vs the best amateur league in the world.

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11-26-2012, 11:24 AM
  #406
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Originally Posted by SmellOfVictory View Post
SM-Liiga is considered a tougher league than the NCAA, but their NHL equivalents (approximately how the point totals of their players tend to translate to the NHL) are ~0.5 and 0.4, respectively. It's not a massive difference. You're talking about a mid-grade pro league (better than many, but nowhere near as good as SEL, KHL, and NHL) vs the best amateur league in the world.
NCAA is not the best amatuer league in the world

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11-26-2012, 12:16 PM
  #407
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Which ones would you say are better?

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11-26-2012, 12:27 PM
  #408
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Originally Posted by SmellOfVictory View Post
Which ones would you say are better?
WHL, OHL QMJHL. All 3 leagues produce the highest amount of 1 & 2 rounder.

NCAA is not on that level.

Interesting to see what Russian posters think of the RHL, the feeder league to the KHL. I dont think any players from there play in the NHL but they supply alot og KHL players. I wonder how it is in comparison to NCAA.

Also, I wonder how a really good Canadian University team like UofA would do against a good NCAA team. Those university teams are almost made up of ex CHLers who are older. Whereas NCAA is made up of americans from USHL and canadians from Jr.A leagues who are 2-3 years younger.

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11-26-2012, 12:42 PM
  #409
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Sure the major junior leagues have more first and second rounders, but the college teams are older, strong guys. It's not much of a difference in the level of play. NCAA tends to be a more defensive league, whereas MJ is a more wide open game. It would be great to see NCAA teams face MJ teams but unfortunately we don't get to see that. Personally I think the top teams from each league would be pretty close.

The Canadian university teams do play college teams preseason and usually get beaten by NCAA teams

Also, the NCAA is the best amateur league in the world because the leagues you listed aren't amateur leagues. They are professional because the players get paid.

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11-26-2012, 12:50 PM
  #410
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Originally Posted by BostonCollegeFan View Post
Sure the major junior leagues have more first and second rounders, but the college teams are older, strong guys. It's not much of a difference in the level of play. NCAA tends to be a more defensive league, whereas MJ is a more wide open game. It would be great to see NCAA teams face MJ teams but unfortunately we don't get to see that. Personally I think the top teams from each league would be pretty close.

The Canadian university teams do play college teams preseason and usually get beaten by NCAA teams

Also, the NCAA is the best amateur league in the world because the leagues you listed aren't amateur leagues. They are professional because the players get paid.
The CHL teams have higher talent but NCAA may have more depth. But if you want to classify the CHL has "professional" because they get $44 dollars a week , then NCAA is best amatuer league. But CHL is by all means an amateur league

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11-26-2012, 01:12 PM
  #411
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I'm not the one who classifies it as a professional league.

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11-26-2012, 01:26 PM
  #412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
WHL, OHL QMJHL. All 3 leagues produce the highest amount of 1 & 2 rounder.

NCAA is not on that level.

Interesting to see what Russian posters think of the RHL, the feeder league to the KHL. I dont think any players from there play in the NHL but they supply alot og KHL players. I wonder how it is in comparison to NCAA.

Also, I wonder how a really good Canadian University team like UofA would do against a good NCAA team. Those university teams are almost made up of ex CHLers who are older. Whereas NCAA is made up of americans from USHL and canadians from Jr.A leagues who are 2-3 years younger.
An NCAA team will kill a CHL team. The potential level isn't there (hence less early draftees), but the players as a group are more polished, stronger, and more effective (in large part due to average age). They also regularly play CIS teams and wipe the floor with them.

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11-26-2012, 01:26 PM
  #413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
WHL, OHL QMJHL. All 3 leagues produce the highest amount of 1 & 2 rounder.

NCAA is not on that level.

Interesting to see what Russian posters think of the RHL, the feeder league to the KHL. I dont think any players from there play in the NHL but they supply alot og KHL players. I wonder how it is in comparison to NCAA.

Also, I wonder how a really good Canadian University team like UofA would do against a good NCAA team. Those university teams are almost made up of ex CHLers who are older. Whereas NCAA is made up of americans from USHL and canadians from Jr.A leagues who are 2-3 years younger.
CIS teams would beat CHL teams 9 times out of ten. CHL teams wouldn't stand a chance against the NCAA. The age difference is simply too big.

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11-26-2012, 02:34 PM
  #414
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Originally Posted by Zathronas View Post
got a question for Flames fan, Why are they always going off the board with long term prospect?

Do management think the crop of star players at the NHL level will still be going strong in 7-8 years? That's my problem with picks like Jankowski and Gaudreau. They may pan out, but not for a long time.
Because choosing safe picks for a number of years under Sutter did us nothing and we deserving got crapped on here for that. If Jank and Gaudreau pan out then it doesn't matter how long it takes because it would have been worth waiting for top line talent than taking a short cut.

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11-26-2012, 02:41 PM
  #415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
WHL, OHL QMJHL. All 3 leagues produce the highest amount of 1 & 2 rounder.

NCAA is not on that level.

Interesting to see what Russian posters think of the RHL, the feeder league to the KHL. I dont think any players from there play in the NHL but they supply alot og KHL players. I wonder how it is in comparison to NCAA.

Also, I wonder how a really good Canadian University team like UofA would do against a good NCAA team. Those university teams are almost made up of ex CHLers who are older. Whereas NCAA is made up of americans from USHL and canadians from Jr.A leagues who are 2-3 years younger.
They would get their ***** handed to them. You're not giving near enough credit to the NCAA.

And the NCAA doesn't have first rounders because you can't play there until you're in university. Meaning most kids are 18, and handful are 17. And kids are drafted by then...

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11-26-2012, 03:03 PM
  #416
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Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
CIS teams would beat CHL teams 9 times out of ten. CHL teams wouldn't stand a chance against the NCAA. The age difference is simply too big.
CHL = 16-21
NCAA = 18-22

It really isn't that large of an age difference.

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11-26-2012, 03:07 PM
  #417
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Originally Posted by n00bxQb View Post
CHL = 16-21
NCAA = 18-22

It really isn't that large of an age difference.
CHL = 16-21 with the majority of players being 16-20 due to overage limits.
NCAA = 18+ (no age limit as far as I'm aware, and there are a substantial number of 23, 24 year olds)

You've got a league where half the players are still growing vs a league that's comprised almost exclusively of adults, many of whom have spent a great deal more time in the gym than kids in Major Junior.

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11-26-2012, 03:33 PM
  #418
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Statistically, players numbers transfer best from the NCAA. There is simply less time and space to work with and the teams are typically more polished across the league. There is a lot better balance of talent, which leads to less scoring. Point per Game scoring from the NCAA transfers typically about 20% better to the NHL game than in the CHL. Amongst the CHL leagues, the WHL is the best, The OHL is a few percentage points below that, and the Q is a few percentage points below that. (EDIT: For the Record, the USHL typically transfers at about 50% below the Q).

The CIS is nowhere near any of those leagues. In fact, it transfers at about 70% below the CHL.

A few points.

A) When was the last time you saw anyone in the NCAAs score more than (or even around) 2 PTS/GP? And i'm talking about players in a legit conference. The only one I can name definitively is Paul Kariya for the U of Maine in 92 and 93 (look it up). Whereas in the CHL, we've had plenty of guys get near or reach 2 pts/gp. Last Year, Sven Bartschi and Jonathan Huberdeau did it. There may be others, i haven't looked. It's a combination of the NCAAs being a much more team oriented game, better defense, less careless play, and the talent level of offensive players just not being as high as we see in the CHL year in year out.

B) The CIS is nowhere comparable to either league. How many NHLers have been even played in the CIS? I can think of one. Joel Ward. Joel Ward has one of the coolest paths to the NHL ever. Look it up.


Last edited by TheBakester66: 11-26-2012 at 03:37 PM. Reason: Added USHL comparable
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11-26-2012, 04:15 PM
  #419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBakester66 View Post
Statistically, players numbers transfer best from the NCAA. There is simply less time and space to work with and the teams are typically more polished across the league. There is a lot better balance of talent, which leads to less scoring. Point per Game scoring from the NCAA transfers typically about 20% better to the NHL game than in the CHL. Amongst the CHL leagues, the WHL is the best, The OHL is a few percentage points below that, and the Q is a few percentage points below that. (EDIT: For the Record, the USHL typically transfers at about 50% below the Q).

The CIS is nowhere near any of those leagues. In fact, it transfers at about 70% below the CHL.

A few points.

A) When was the last time you saw anyone in the NCAAs score more than (or even around) 2 PTS/GP? And i'm talking about players in a legit conference. The only one I can name definitively is Paul Kariya for the U of Maine in 92 and 93 (look it up). Whereas in the CHL, we've had plenty of guys get near or reach 2 pts/gp. Last Year, Sven Bartschi and Jonathan Huberdeau did it. There may be others, i haven't looked. It's a combination of the NCAAs being a much more team oriented game, better defense, less careless play, and the talent level of offensive players just not being as high as we see in the CHL year in year out.

B) The CIS is nowhere comparable to either league. How many NHLers have been even played in the CIS? I can think of one. Joel Ward. Joel Ward has one of the coolest paths to the NHL ever. Look it up.
brendan morrison, martin st. louis, eric perrin all had higher than 2.0 PPG after kariya did. it's still an oddity to score at that clip from the 1980's until present and especially in today's NCAA which is more defensive oriented.

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11-26-2012, 04:19 PM
  #420
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Originally Posted by n00bxQb View Post
CHL = 16-21
NCAA = 18-22

It really isn't that large of an age difference.
At that age it is a significant difference. Think of a U-17 team trying to play at the U-20 World juniors.

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11-26-2012, 04:21 PM
  #421
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Originally Posted by TheBakester66 View Post
Statistically, players numbers transfer best from the NCAA. There is simply less time and space to work with and the teams are typically more polished across the league. There is a lot better balance of talent, which leads to less scoring. Point per Game scoring from the NCAA transfers typically about 20% better to the NHL game than in the CHL. Amongst the CHL leagues, the WHL is the best, The OHL is a few percentage points below that, and the Q is a few percentage points below that. (EDIT: For the Record, the USHL typically transfers at about 50% below the Q).

The CIS is nowhere near any of those leagues. In fact, it transfers at about 70% below the CHL.

A few points.

A) When was the last time you saw anyone in the NCAAs score more than (or even around) 2 PTS/GP? And i'm talking about players in a legit conference. The only one I can name definitively is Paul Kariya for the U of Maine in 92 and 93 (look it up). Whereas in the CHL, we've had plenty of guys get near or reach 2 pts/gp. Last Year, Sven Bartschi and Jonathan Huberdeau did it. There may be others, i haven't looked. It's a combination of the NCAAs being a much more team oriented game, better defense, less careless play, and the talent level of offensive players just not being as high as we see in the CHL year in year out.

B) The CIS is nowhere comparable to either league. How many NHLers have been even played in the CIS? I can think of one. Joel Ward. Joel Ward has one of the coolest paths to the NHL ever. Look it up.

The large majority of CHL players never make it to the NHL either. If you take a random CHL team, the chances of them having an NHL quality future player is fairly low, usually around 1 or 2. The CIS is made up of the rest of those CHL kids, the only difference is they are a bit older and more experienced.

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11-26-2012, 04:45 PM
  #422
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I know this is HF Boards so hyperbole is at a premium, but I think Gaudreau may have the best hockey IQ/sense of any US player since Brett Hull. I'm not sure about P. Kane. In fact, the only US players I can think of that may have had better hockey IQ/sense are Hull and Leetch.

Whether physically he can play in the NHL is the only question.

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11-26-2012, 06:27 PM
  #423
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The coach of Dartmouth who has been around the Big East for 15 years or so compared Gaudreau to Paul Kariya after the game this weekend.

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11-26-2012, 06:40 PM
  #424
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Originally Posted by n00bxQb View Post
CHL = 16-21
NCAA = 18-22

It really isn't that large of an age difference.
If most guys actually started at 18 in the NCAA then it wouldn't be much of a difference but a lot of freshman are 20, 21 and are 23, 24+ by the time they're done. And at that age it is a big difference.

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11-26-2012, 08:18 PM
  #425
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Originally Posted by TheBakester66 View Post

A) When was the last time you saw anyone in the NCAAs score more than (or even around) 2 PTS/GP? And i'm talking about players in a legit conference. The only one I can name definitively is Paul Kariya for the U of Maine in 92 and 93 (look it up). Whereas in the CHL, we've had plenty of guys get near or reach 2 pts/gp. Last Year, Sven Bartschi and Jonathan Huberdeau did it. There may be others, i haven't looked. It's a combination of the NCAAs being a much more team oriented game, better defense, less careless play, and the talent level of offensive players just not being as high as we see in the CHL year in year out.
.
Would be funny if John Gaudreau did it this year: 11GP 19P so far. lol

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