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General UFC/MMA/boxing discussion - Bute vs. Pascal?

View Poll Results: Who wins a fight between Lucian Bute and Jean Pascal ?
Lucian Bute 9 36.00%
Jean Pascal 15 60.00%
Draw 1 4.00%
Voters: 25. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-23-2012, 12:04 PM
  #301
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by RaMMuT View Post
I somewhat disagree with you on that one. You forgot about Carlos Newton that was the WW champion in the UFC. He's the one that lost the title to Matt Hughes. He may not be at the same elite level as GSP but he deserves some credit.

Harold Howard too was one of the first Canadian fighters to step in the octagon, but unfortunately he had some serious issues.

However, GSP is the main reason why MMA in Canada became so huge. GSP is the Manny Pacquiao of Canada. (not Jean Pascal or Lucian Bute)

Speaking of Jean Pascal...did anybody see this during last event?? lol

Well, by top canadian talent I really meant, top top. As one of the best UFC fighters.
Maybe I should have been more precise.

And yes, saw that, freaking hilarious.

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11-23-2012, 07:12 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Gerbox 360 View Post
Name "all these fights".
Silva vs Sonnen 2 was a joke, especially after Chael's TRT scandal. I get why they had the rematch, but he wasn't the top contender. His mouth got him that fight, and his mouth got him a date with John Jones. So Chael gets to move up a weight class, and fight for the LHW title now, because he can talk ****?

How much more evidence do you need of Chael's mouth getting him fights? So now rankings mean nothing, and Chael gets to bounce around weight classes and get immediate title shots? What's next? Trash talk GSP more, and fight at 170? Dana won't be happy till numbnuts gets a belt?

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11-25-2012, 07:18 PM
  #303
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GSP on Tout le monde en parle tonight for those interrested

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11-26-2012, 10:53 AM
  #304
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11-26-2012, 11:01 AM
  #305
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I thought his excuse about not fighting Silva now was pretty bad.
''Not fighting him because what's next?'' Seriously?..
The same can be said of every Champion when they defend a title, especially if they've done it a few times.
I agree he needs another fight as WW, but that's to get rid of all rust, not because there's nothing after Silva.

Him jumping to MW and staying there made more sense as an excuse.

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11-26-2012, 11:07 AM
  #306
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Eh, there's not much he can say really. The only reason for him to say no to a Silva fight is because it's not strategic at this time. The honest truth is that he'd rather grind the remainder of the WW division into a fine paste to get into top condition to fight Silva.

Like I said, I think it is possible for GSP to win that fight, but the GSP who fought Condit wouldn't cut the mustard.

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11-26-2012, 01:09 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
Eh, there's not much he can say really. The only reason for him to say no to a Silva fight is because it's not strategic at this time. The honest truth is that he'd rather grind the remainder of the WW division into a fine paste to get into top condition to fight Silva.

Like I said, I think it is possible for GSP to win that fight, but the GSP who fought Condit wouldn't cut the mustard.
Of course it's possible, but how likely? Very little.

If Condit can knock down GSP, Silva would eat him up. The WW division is already grinded out.

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11-26-2012, 01:59 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Of course it's possible, but how likely? Very little.

If Condit can knock down GSP, Silva would eat him up. The WW division is already grinded out.
The likelihood depends on the GSP in that specific fight. If it's the GSP in Alves, or Serra 2, the likelihood is a lot better than you're portraying it. There's a definite game plan for GSP. If however, it were Anderson delivering that head-kick on GSP, or anyone who could've turned on that kick properly, then yeah, GSP would've been done. So, like I said, if it were the GSP in the Condit fight, it would probably be a short night.

Hendricks is a legitimate fight for GSP. In the meantime, Anderson can grow a sack and fight Jones.

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11-26-2012, 02:40 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
The likelihood depends on the GSP in that specific fight. If it's the GSP in Alves, or Serra 2, the likelihood is a lot better than you're portraying it. There's a definite game plan for GSP. If however, it were Anderson delivering that head-kick on GSP, or anyone who could've turned on that kick properly, then yeah, GSP would've been done. So, like I said, if it were the GSP in the Condit fight, it would probably be a short night.

Hendricks is a legitimate fight for GSP. In the meantime, Anderson can grow a sack and fight Jones.
No, the likelihood is not better, and no GSP is not the one that will determine how this fight goes. All GSP has over Silva is wrestling, that's it. But Silva has beaten strong wrestlers before. Even if on the ground, he can submit off his back.

Anderson has already agreed to fight Jones, he said it's up to the UFC to decide. He said GSP is an easier match up.
Lol @ saying the guy who's been Champ since 2006, defended his title over 10 times, has jumped to a higher division and won, who beats his opponents either by sub or KO almost 100% of the time since joining the UFC, who's last legit loss is 8 years ago, needs to grow a sack...

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11-26-2012, 08:59 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
No, the likelihood is not better, and no GSP is not the one that will determine how this fight goes. All GSP has over Silva is wrestling, that's it. But Silva has beaten strong wrestlers before. Even if on the ground, he can submit off his back.
Give me a break. "Just wrestling." Do you know what you're talking about? GSP is the most effective wrestler in UFC history, and the last person to submit him off the bottom was Matt Serra in ADCC when GSP was a purple belt. He has the ability to take Anderson down, keep him there, and impose his game from the top, and he can do it for 5 rounds. Can he not?

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Anderson has already agreed to fight Jones, he said it's up to the UFC to decide. He said GSP is an easier match up.
Lol @ saying the guy who's been Champ since 2006, defended his title over 10 times, has jumped to a higher division and won, who beats his opponents either by sub or KO almost 100% of the time since joining the UFC, who's last legit loss is 8 years ago, needs to grow a sack...
So fight him, then. GSP isn't ready for the fight yet, plain and simple. No sense pissing away time when you could fight Jones instead.

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11-26-2012, 10:30 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
Give me a break. "Just wrestling." Do you know what you're talking about? GSP is the most effective wrestler in UFC history, and the last person to submit him off the bottom was Matt Serra in ADCC when GSP was a purple belt. He has the ability to take Anderson down, keep him there, and impose his game from the top, and he can do it for 5 rounds. Can he not?
No, he cannot. To think he can easily impose his will on the best p4p fighter in the world (and possibly ever, all sports combined, according to Dana White) is just foolish.
It's not because he hasn't been submitted in a long time that it won't happen again. That's the dumbest theory ever. Stephen Bonnar never got KOd, we all saw how useful that fact was. Not comparing Bonnar to GSP, just saying, it's not because something hasn't happened that it will never happen.

And I don't quite understand. You act surprised when I say all he has is wrestling (, but you then say he's the best wrestler of all time (I disagree, I think his wrestling is great but he usually has a pretty good size advantage over his opponents. I don't think he's a better or stronger wrestler than Sonnen on roids.) and he can bring the fight to the mat for 5 rds. I don't think that's going to be so easy because he will be receiving punches.
Also, if GSP is the best wrestler of all time (disagree unless you only mean WW), then Silva is the best striker. Except Silva's ground game is better than GSP's stand up one.

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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
So fight him, then. GSP isn't ready for the fight yet, plain and simple. No sense pissing away time when you could fight Jones instead.
Well, as I said, the UFC is the one that will make the decision. You have a problem, then talk about Dana White, not Silva.
Second, you don't make any sense. In your first paragraph, you say GSP has the ability to take A.S down, keep him there, impose his game and do it for 5 rounds. But now you add that GSP isn't ready yet??.
So what are you saying? GSP can dictate the fight and beat A.S without even being ready??

Silva will make GSP look like nothing more than a regular fighter, and I'm a GSP fan.

Also, GSP is the easier challenge between him and Jones. If White wants to create two super fights, it makes sense that GSP is the one that's up first.

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11-26-2012, 10:57 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
No, he cannot.
Lol. Whatever you say, bud.

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11-26-2012, 11:36 PM
  #313
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Lol @ GSP having a ''pretty good'' size advantage over his opponents. GSP isn't a huge welterweight, his size his normal for his weight class. Condit, Fitch, Koscheck, Hardy, Shield, etc, are all bigger than him. He's 5'10''. You think he enters the octogon with 10-15 pounds on someone who's 6'00''?

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11-27-2012, 12:18 AM
  #314
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
No, he cannot. To think he can easily impose his will on the best p4p fighter in the world (and possibly ever, all sports combined, according to Dana White) is just foolish.
It's not because he hasn't been submitted in a long time that it won't happen again. That's the dumbest theory ever. Stephen Bonnar never got KOd, we all saw how useful that fact was. Not comparing Bonnar to GSP, just saying, it's not because something hasn't happened that it will never happen.
Okay, I'm back. This **** was just so dumb, I had to stay away from the computer, or I was going to get myself bant.

Quite honestly, everyone has tried to submit GSP off their back, and no one has come remotely close. Do you know why that is? It's because his MMA grappling is incredible. Making a game plan around tapping GSP off your back is unlikely to lead to success. It's just going to give GSP the advantage on the score-card, and get you punched in the face a bunch of times.


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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
And I don't quite understand. You act surprised when I say all he has is wrestling (, but you then say he's the best wrestler of all time (I disagree, I think his wrestling is great but he usually has a pretty good size advantage over his opponents. I don't think he's a better or stronger wrestler than Sonnen on roids.) and he can bring the fight to the mat for 5 rds. I don't think that's going to be so easy because he will be receiving punches.
Also, if GSP is the best wrestler of all time (disagree unless you only mean WW), then Silva is the best striker. Except Silva's ground game is better than GSP's stand up one.
Of course you don't understand, what else is new? Took like 4 posts to explain to you the current state of the NHLPA's proposal.

My point is that you blew off GSP's advantage in wrestling as if that was somehow a trifling matter. It isn't. The transition game is the most important phase of an MMA fight. This is why during the second generation, the UFC was dominated by wrestlers. If you wrestled in college in the states, you can pretty well write a ticket for yourself in grappling gyms in europe, for this reason. If you can control where the fight happens, you have a tremendous advantage.

And I said that GSP was the most effective wrestler in UFC history, and that is true. The UFC has seen many great wrestlers, who, in a wrestling competition, would probably beat GSP. Henderson won Silver at the olympic games, for example. However, no one has applied wrestling as effectively as GSP. The guy has a takedown success rate of 80%. I don't think there's been an opponent who he hasn't been able to take down. What makes you think Silva will be different? Is he a better wrestler than Josh Koscheck? And you go on to say that GSP can't do it for 5 rounds. When has GSP ever gassed?

And what are you on about, Anderson's ground game is better than GSP's standup? Well it's a ****in' good thing GSP won't be using his stand up vs. anderson's ground game. What a silly thing to say indeed. What matters is who gets to control where the fight happens, and I think that would probably be GSP, and what happens once the fight reaches that destination. In that case, GSP has every tool he would need to be able to control Silva.


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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Well, as I said, the UFC is the one that will make the decision. You have a problem, then talk about Dana White, not Silva.
Second, you don't make any sense. In your first paragraph, you say GSP has the ability to take A.S down, keep him there, impose his game and do it for 5 rounds. But now you add that GSP isn't ready yet??.
So what are you saying? GSP can dictate the fight and beat A.S without even being ready??

Silva will make GSP look like nothing more than a regular fighter, and I'm a GSP fan.

Also, GSP is the easier challenge between him and Jones. If White wants to create two super fights, it makes sense that GSP is the one that's up first.
Well there you go, Anderson has his strategy too. The heroic thing to do would say "f you dana, give me bones." But no, he wants the easier fight. But GSP can't want the easier fight too? All of a sudden his "excuse" is "weak"? Especially after coming off of a long injury? **** that man.

And please, give me a break with all this gotcha crap. I've said from the beginning that the GSP who fought Condit probably wouldn't win. He was clearly rusty, and clearly he needs to regain his form. I've been watching GSP for 7 years now, I know what he's capable of. GSP vs Condit was an 80% GSP.

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11-27-2012, 09:35 AM
  #315
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Okay, I'm back. This **** was just so dumb, I had to stay away from the computer, or I was going to get myself bant.

Quite honestly, everyone has tried to submit GSP off their back, and no one has come remotely close. Do you know why that is? It's because his MMA grappling is incredible. Making a game plan around tapping GSP off your back is unlikely to lead to success. It's just going to give GSP the advantage on the score-card, and get you punched in the face a bunch of times.
Who exactly said the gameplan was to submit GSP while he's on top?
I said Silva has proved capable of submitting from the bottom position, while having a strong wrestler on top (one that's even stronger than GSP).
He also destroyed Hendo, who again, is an even better wrestler than GSP.

Speaking about getting punched to the face, you don't think GSP will get his fair share of punches on the nose? Oh right, he will be able to avoid them or brush them off, however Silva won't be able to withstand his wrestling at all and will get dominated to the point GSP will be dictating the fight for 5 rounds.

And you say my post was dumb? You sound like a bias GSP fan incapable of looking at what's obvious. Silva is the favorite here, by quite the margin.

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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
Of course you don't understand, what else is new? Took like 4 posts to explain to you the current state of the NHLPA's proposal.

My point is that you blew off GSP's advantage in wrestling as if that was somehow a trifling matter. It isn't. The transition game is the most important phase of an MMA fight. This is why during the second generation, the UFC was dominated by wrestlers. If you wrestled in college in the states, you can pretty well write a ticket for yourself in grappling gyms in europe, for this reason. If you can control where the fight happens, you have a tremendous advantage.

And I said that GSP was the most effective wrestler in UFC history, and that is true. The UFC has seen many great wrestlers, who, in a wrestling competition, would probably beat GSP. Henderson won Silver at the olympic games, for example. However, no one has applied wrestling as effectively as GSP. The guy has a takedown success rate of 80%. I don't think there's been an opponent who he hasn't been able to take down. What makes you think Silva will be different? Is he a better wrestler than Josh Koscheck? And you go on to say that GSP can't do it for 5 rounds. When has GSP ever gassed?

And what are you on about, Anderson's ground game is better than GSP's standup? Well it's a ****in' good thing GSP won't be using his stand up vs. anderson's ground game. What a silly thing to say indeed. What matters is who gets to control where the fight happens, and I think that would probably be GSP, and what happens once the fight reaches that destination. In that case, GSP has every tool he would need to be able to control Silva.
I'm starting to wonder if you even understand what happens during a fight or how to constructively look at a match up. All you have been doing is focusing on GSP's wrestling, that's it. Not one mention of the strengths of Silva.
I never denied GSP's strong wrestling skills, I just don't think he'll be able to apply them as easily as you make it sound (for 5 rounds dictating the whole fight).
I think GSP will have a harder time keeping a guy like Silva pined to the ground as he'll be bigger than any of his previous opponents. He won't be going in as the stronger of the two. With Silva's precision, I believe GSP will get punched and will have to encase punches he's never encountered before. Silva's clinch is also extremely dangerous, not to mention the usage of his knees and legs. Silva has also worked hard on his takedown defense since the Sonnen fight, this was evident in their rematch when he was able to stuff him in the 2nd round.

Just to make sure you understand, I'm not saying GSP won't be able to take Silva down, and even win some rounds, I just don't think he will dominate at all, and I think Silva will simply be too dangerous for him.
If he does dominate, or appear as he is, it'll be because Silva did what he did in the first Sonnen fight. Stop trying to stuff the takedowns, and just patiently work to find a submission from the bottom position.

And please...Josh Koscheck?? Really?? The guy is nothing but an average fighter who's overhyped like most of the fighters of the UFC. It's embarrassing the guy even had a title shot.

The point of me comparing their weaknesses (GSP's stand up vs Silva's ground game) was to show that GSP's is worst than Silva's, and I believe Silva has more tools in his arsenal.

Maybe you should stick to the NHLPA because you're making yourself look like a clown here.
Also, you didn't explain anything in the lockout thread, I said I was unaware of the changes. You provided a link with a quotation, I looked at it, said it wasn't clear and you added another quote that cleared it. I was waiting for a clear fact, you provided one after 4 posts. Not sure how this was me not understanding..but wtv I guess.

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Well there you go, Anderson has his strategy too. The heroic thing to do would say "f you dana, give me bones." But no, he wants the easier fight. But GSP can't want the easier fight too? All of a sudden his "excuse" is "weak"? Especially after coming off of a long injury? **** that man.

And please, give me a break with all this gotcha crap. I've said from the beginning that the GSP who fought Condit probably wouldn't win. He was clearly rusty, and clearly he needs to regain his form. I've been watching GSP for 7 years now, I know what he's capable of. GSP vs Condit was an 80% GSP.
The heroic thing to do?? That's completely ridiculous. I guess Jones isn't heroic either because he never said that either. Neither is GSP because he didn't say ''screw that, gimme Silva''. This has absolutely nothing to do with heroism.

If you actually read my post properly, I said GSP's excuse about ''after Silva, what next?'' was weak. In the exact same post, the EXACT same, I said his excuse about him jumping to MW and staying there made more sense.
If your panties weren't all in a bunch because someone is saying GSP would lose, maybe you would have read better.

GSP wasn't for a fight versus Silva even before he got injured. He always was hesitant about it, this isn't post-injury new.

And I'm not going to give you a break, you contradicted yourself. You said GSP would be able to dictate this fight, impose his will for 5 rounds, giving him the victory. You followed this by saying he isn't ready. That's a contradiction in anyway you want to look at it. I don't care what you said about his Condit shape, it's irrelevant. Will he get back to 100%? Will he beat Hendricks? Will he improve? Who freaking knows. How did you even come up with the 80% number? You just crapped it out.

The only thing we can say is that right now GSP would most likely lose.
The fact you haven't mentioned any of Silva's strength show your clear bias. If you look at my posting before, I actually said the only chance GSP has of winning is to heavily rely on his wrestling and pin Silva down for the 5 rounds, without making any mistakes. Despite him being a great technician and capable of following the gameplan, I think Silva is just way too good to be kept on the ground for 5min without forcing a mistake from his opponent.
I also think Silva's lengthy limbs can keep GSP at bay, making it hard for GSP to take him down.

Congratulations on following GSP for 7years. You get a medal. I've followed him for 8years and been following UFC/Pride since their first show. I've seen them all, not to mention K-1 and other organizations. So I guess I deserve the trophy.


Last edited by Kriss E: 11-27-2012 at 09:44 AM.
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11-27-2012, 10:15 AM
  #316
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Give me a break. "Just wrestling." Do you know what you're talking about? GSP is the most effective wrestler in UFC history, and the last person to submit him off the bottom was Matt Serra in ADCC when GSP was a purple belt.
If 'wrestling skills' was all it was going to take to beat Anderson, Henderson or Sonnen could have employed that strategy.... rather easily. Both would have the upper hand on GSP if it was a wrestling match.

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11-27-2012, 07:36 PM
  #317
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If 'wrestling skills' was all it was going to take to beat Anderson, Henderson or Sonnen could have employed that strategy.... rather easily. Both would have the upper hand on GSP if it was a wrestling match.
Both had some success, though. But both got caught too. It takes a good fighter to take advantage of a mistake, but it takes an even better fighter not to make a critical mistake against someone as good as Silva.

I've been following this thread for the last little while. An overall impression is that GSP's stand-up is underrated. He is a good technical striker with a pretty good array of strikes, and he's impressively punched and kicked some pretty good fighters. But I think the underestimating is largely his doing. He just doesn't want to fight like a striker. He's too cautious and too strategic. He seems to strike to set up other parts of his game plan, whether it's to go for a takedown, score points, or disrupt his opponent's range.

He doesn't strike (or at least hasn't seemed to in a while) to end the fight. As a result, I don't think other fighters fear him in that way. He can break an orbital bone or stun an opponent with a jab, but a lethal striker would I think always welcome a boxing match with GSP. Yes, he may get jabbed and leg-kicked, but he's just one strike away from winning the fight, which is an opportunity he likely will not get on the ground, especially as he would be likely fighting off his back.

You can bet (but no one would take you up on it) that Hendricks will focus a lot of his training on takedown defence and scrambles. GSP likes to takedown wrestlers. Being on his back is unnatural for a wrestler, which can have a heightened psychological effect of bullying. But I would want to see a GSP gameplan against Hendricks that deploys his striking to the utmost. So, turn it around, and use the threat of a takedown to set up a barrage of strikes, taking advantage of his footwork and messing with Hendrick's range. I think it would be a surprise and effective.

In any event, I think a GSP v Silva fight would be entertaining just for the contrast in styles. Silva is as natural a fighter as has ever been, but GSP's greatest attribute is his discipline -- he trains, studies and devises plans. While I think GSP could win, it would have to be a perfect fight, because Silva will kill with a single mistake. A flawless fight against someone as good as Silva is improbable, but GSP's discipline, I think, makes it possible.

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11-27-2012, 08:20 PM
  #318
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Both had some success, though. But both got caught too. It takes a good fighter to take advantage of a mistake, but it takes an even better fighter not to make a critical mistake against someone as good as Silva.

I've been following this thread for the last little while. An overall impression is that GSP's stand-up is underrated. He is a good technical striker with a pretty good array of strikes, and he's impressively punched and kicked some pretty good fighters. But I think the underestimating is largely his doing. He just doesn't want to fight like a striker. He's too cautious and too strategic. He seems to strike to set up other parts of his game plan, whether it's to go for a takedown, score points, or disrupt his opponent's range.

He doesn't strike (or at least hasn't seemed to in a while) to end the fight. As a result, I don't think other fighters fear him in that way. He can break an orbital bone or stun an opponent with a jab, but a lethal striker would I think always welcome a boxing match with GSP. Yes, he may get jabbed and leg-kicked, but he's just one strike away from winning the fight, which is an opportunity he likely will not get on the ground, especially as he would be likely fighting off his back.

You can bet (but no one would take you up on it) that Hendricks will focus a lot of his training on takedown defence and scrambles. GSP likes to takedown wrestlers. Being on his back is unnatural for a wrestler, which can have a heightened psychological effect of bullying. But I would want to see a GSP gameplan against Hendricks that deploys his striking to the utmost. So, turn it around, and use the threat of a takedown to set up a barrage of strikes, taking advantage of his footwork and messing with Hendrick's range. I think it would be a surprise and effective.

In any event, I think a GSP v Silva fight would be entertaining just for the contrast in styles. Silva is as natural a fighter as has ever been, but GSP's greatest attribute is his discipline -- he trains, studies and devises plans. While I think GSP could win, it would have to be a perfect fight, because Silva will kill with a single mistake. A flawless fight against someone as good as Silva is improbable, but GSP's discipline, I think, makes it possible.
GSP's striking isn't that great. His ground and pound is better, but he has very little KO power. But even if he did, deciding to go head to head versus the best stand up fighter in UFC history would be a very bad strategy. I would give him more chances if that fighter would be a WW as well, but the guy is naturally about 45lbs more and has beaten better strikers than GSP with ease.

Silva has already faced very tough and strong wrestlers. GSP is smarter than them, and has quicker footwork, but I think don't that'll be enough to beat Silva. I just don't. And I don't think there's anything as a perfect fight that lasts 5rounds. Not in today's UFC.
To be honest, I think even GSP doesn't think he has much chance of winning that fight, which is why he's never been too enthused by the idea.

If he fights Hendricks, his game plan will be similar to the one he used versus Condit. I don't think he wants to swing punches with anybody that has real KO power. I also think this would be the best move for him as a business man and career wise. A loss to Silva would set him back, he would drop back to the WW division, and if he loses again in his division, that would be catastrophic. If Silva lost, he could possibly retire, he'd be close to 40 anyways.
GSP has a lot more to lose from a loss, and he also has less chances of winning, a lot less imo. So, simply a bad decision all around, which to me explains why he's never been openly for it or showed much interest, in any.


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11-27-2012, 09:01 PM
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GSP's striking isn't that great. His ground and pound is better, but he has very little KO power. But even if he did, deciding to go head to head versus the best stand up fighter in UFC history would be a very bad strategy. I would give him more chances if that fighter would be a WW as well, but the guy is naturally about 45lbs more and has beaten better strikers than GSP with ease.

Silva has already faced very tough and strong wrestlers. GSP is smarter than them, and has quicker footwork, but I think don't that'll be enough to beat Silva. I just don't. And I don't think there's anything as a perfect fight that lasts 5rounds. Not in today's UFC.

If he fights Hendricks, his game plan will be similar to the one he used versus Condit. I don't think he wants to swing punches with anybody that has real KO power.
I don't disagree about Silva. I'm just not sure GSP has much of that killer instinct that you see in some fighters. So, even if GSP were to fight a good, disciplined fight against Silva, I wouldn't bet much that GSP would be able to end it on a single mistake by Silva. And then, in a 5 round fight, chances are that GSP would at some point make the kind of mistake that Silva feasts on.

About Hendricks, I also think you're probably right. It's just what GSP does and no one has been able to stop him, aside from the surprise Serra punch. Seems kind of dumb to change it against one more wrestler with a heavy hand. But as much as I want to see GSP keep winning, a striking display that carries the win is what I want to see as a fan even more.

In case I was unclear before, I do not advocate GSP getting into a pure striking match with Silva. To me, that is very far from the type of perfect fight he would need to fight to have a chance to win. But against a Hendricks, I think GSP could surprise with his striking, partly because it would be unexpected and partly, I suspect, because other WW fighters might not have the respect for his striking that they ought to.

I guess what it comes down to is maybe a difference of perception (or speculation, at least on my part). While I agree that GSP has not shown himself in a good while to be a very dangerous striker, he is still effective, and I think capable of being more dangerous. I think the perception of his limitation as a power or damage striker owes a lot to his gameplans and overall conservative approach. In other words, at least some of that limitation, I suspect, is self-imposed.


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11-27-2012, 09:24 PM
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I don't disagree about Silva. I'm just not sure GSP has much of that killer instinct that you see in some fighters. So, even if GSP were to fight a good, disciplined fight against Silva, I wouldn't bet much that GSP would be able to end it on a single mistake by Silva. And then, in a 5 round fight, chances are that GSP would at some point make the kind of mistake that Silva feasts on.

About Hendricks, I also think you're probably right. It's just what GSP does and no one has been able to stop him, aside from the surprise Serra punch. Seems kind of dumb to change it against one more wrestler with a heavy hand. But as much as I want to see GSP keep winning, a striking display that carries the win is what I want to see as a fan even more.

In case I was unclear before, I do not advocate GSP getting into a pure striking match with Silva. To me, that is very far from the type of perfect fight he would need to fight to have a chance to win. But against a Hendricks, I think GSP could surprise with his striking, partly because it would be unexpected and partly, I suspect, because other WW fighters might not have the respect for his striking that they ought to.

I guess what it comes down to is maybe a difference of perception (or speculation, at least on my part). While I agree that GSP has not shown himself in a good while to be a very dangerous striker, he is still effective, and I think capable of being more dangerous. I think the perception of his limitation as a power or damage striker owes a lot to his gameplans and overall conservative approach. In other words, at least some of that limitation, I suspect, is self-imposed.
I don't think it's self-imposed. I mean, someone that has KO power and strong striking wouldn't decide to have a fun wrestling match versus Koscheck or Fitch.
He did show it when he fought Matt Hughes. Keeping it standing, stuffing Hughes, was the best strategy because MH was just so uni-dimensional. There's no way someone like Matt Hughes could become Champion nowadays. You need to be well rounded at the very least. I think that's why GSP plays it smart and goes to his bread and butter.

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11-28-2012, 11:36 PM
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While Silva does seem to have a better skill set, I really think GSP has a shot. He's an incredibly smart fighter who doesn't take stupid risks. I think that mentally, he's the toughest fighter out there. He has that thing that makes you think he just can't lose.

Anyway, I really hope GSP takes this fight in the near future. He has to have a fight or two again to get back in full shape, though.

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11-29-2012, 05:57 AM
  #322
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While Silva does seem to have a better skill set, I really think GSP has a shot. He's an incredibly smart fighter who doesn't take stupid risks. I think that mentally, he's the toughest fighter out there. He has that thing that makes you think he just can't lose.

Anyway, I really hope GSP takes this fight in the near future. He has to have a fight or two again to get back in full shape, though.
How is GSP stronger mentally? It was the first time he got knocked down and recuperated when fighting Condit. The only other time was versus Serra and he lost, an embarrassing loss.
Silva has lost 4rounds to Sonnen but won in the 5th.
Both have proven to be very strong mentally, but I think Silva is the one that looks more invincible. It's not that he hasn't lost yet in the UFC, it's that his opponents never even hurt him. He also destroyed his opponents. You can also see that his opponents respect him a lot by the way they move in the octagon.
GSP, while dominating his opponents, never destroyed them, and it was also shown that he can get hurt.


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11-29-2012, 09:18 AM
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How is GSP stronger mentally? It was the first time he got knocked down and recuperated when fighting Condit. The only other time was versus Serra and he lost, an embarrassing loss.
Silva has lost 4rounds to Sonnen but won in the 5th.
Both have proven to be very strong mentally, but I think Silva is the one that looks more invincible. It's not that he hasn't lost yet in the UFC, it's that his opponents never even hurt him. He, on the other hand, destroyed his opponents.
GSP, while dominating his opponents, he never destroyed them, and he also shown he can get hurt.
I agree. There are too many 'myths' floating around GSP. He battled back hard in the GSP-Penn 1 match, after the eye poke as well... but he got beaten by Matt Hughes the first time they fought too, because he was a little weak minded at the time.

He admitted to being nervous to fight his idol.....

Anderson has shown he can take a beating and come back for the win.

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11-29-2012, 09:31 AM
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I agree. There are too many 'myths' floating around GSP. He battled back hard in the GSP-Penn 1 match, after the eye poke as well... but he got beaten by Matt Hughes the first time they fought too, because he was a little weak minded at the time.

He admitted to being nervous to fight his idol.....

Anderson has shown he can take a beating and come back for the win.
Agreed, except for the beating. I don't think Sonnen really put a beating on him, I see it more as a wrestling clinic. It's just that when people speak of a beating, I imagine physical damage to the face or body.

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11-29-2012, 07:00 PM
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While Silva does seem to have a better skill set, I really think GSP has a shot. He's an incredibly smart fighter who doesn't take stupid risks. I think that mentally, he's the toughest fighter out there. He has that thing that makes you think he just can't lose.

Anyway, I really hope GSP takes this fight in the near future. He has to have a fight or two again to get back in full shape, though.
I agree with your smart comment. GSP is probably the best at knowing his limitations and exploiting his opponents weaknesses without putting himself in jeopardy, but as far as being strong mentally and dealing with adversity I don't agree.

I've seen him look vulnerable a few times in tough spots. Against Shields he was going on and on about his eye and seemed to panic a bit. Against condit you can hear him talking to his corner concerned after the 3rd round. He hasn't been really tested, but that's a testament to his skill level.

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