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AAA 2012 Draft

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Old
11-24-2012, 07:10 PM
  #701
chaosrevolver
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Hey I haven't been home and have been without internet minus phone. I get home tomorrow and will male my picks. Thanks for waiting guys and sorry foe it at the same time.

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11-24-2012, 11:53 PM
  #702
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I'm going to take Kenora Thistles winger Roxy Beaudro. To be honest, I don't know a lot about him yet, but research is the name of this game, so off I go.

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11-25-2012, 09:41 AM
  #703
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Dr. Jan Starsi, coach


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11-25-2012, 02:34 PM
  #704
Rob Scuderi
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LW, Pete Horeck

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11-25-2012, 02:51 PM
  #705
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Dr. Jan Starsi, coach

How on Earth was he still available?

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Old
11-25-2012, 03:47 PM
  #706
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LW, Pete Horeck
Nice pick BBS, I looked at him for my fourth line wing position.

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11-25-2012, 04:23 PM
  #707
tony d
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St.John's Monsters select Right Winger Ronnie Stern



Stern was an effective 4th line winger for many years in the NHL.

Next has been pmed.

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11-25-2012, 05:16 PM
  #708
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How on Earth was he still available?
Slow pace of the draft combined with lots of autoskipping plus that many probably thought he was taken. Its been a confusing draft to say the least.

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11-25-2012, 05:48 PM
  #709
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We'll take 2 x Stanley Cup champion, Reg Hamilton, D

He played 10 seasons in the Original Six league, and was known for his toughness and physical play. He was said to have the meanest elbows until Gordie Howe took that away.

On my phone, so can somebody please PM the next GM?

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11-25-2012, 05:49 PM
  #710
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Slow pace of the draft combined with lots of autoskipping plus that many probably thought he was taken. Its been a confusing draft to say the least.
70s and I talked about him and dismissed him. He is one of the best coaches, but he doesn't stand out.

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11-25-2012, 10:33 PM
  #711
BillyShoe1721
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Good pick.

We considered him when we took Poti. Zalapski definately had the best offensive resume among defesnemen when we made the Poti selection, but we wanted somebody to run our PP, and that's not something we would have wanted Zalapski doing.
I know Pelletier's bio paints Zalapski out to be a guy who had zero hockey sense and just blasted away with the puck, but do you really think Poti is a better option to be a PPQB when he is very clearly inferior offensively?

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11-26-2012, 01:19 AM
  #712
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I know Pelletier's bio paints Zalapski out to be a guy who had zero hockey sense and just blasted away with the puck, but do you really think Poti is a better option to be a PPQB when he is very clearly inferior offensively?
Zalapski's offensive peak is about 10% better than Poti's. While that is clearly better, it's not that big of a gap. Considering the chemstry issues as well as the rest of Poti's game, we easily selected Poti.

As I said, it's a good pick now. We just passed on him for specific reasons.

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11-26-2012, 01:24 AM
  #713
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
I know Pelletier's bio paints Zalapski out to be a guy who had zero hockey sense and just blasted away with the puck, but do you really think Poti is a better option to be a PPQB when he is very clearly inferior offensively?
We mulled over that exact question, but in the end we're talking about the difference between 41 adjusted points per season and 47 (the gap would be smaller if using a sample size for Poti similar to Zalapski's career length). We just couldn't take all the negatives. I was really pushing for him, but Dreakmur told me his concerns, then I went and read some scouting reports spanning five years, and I have to say it was extremely painful. You'd think there wasn't a single good thing about him, except that once a season he'd have a hugely dominating game. Even still, I came back with the counterpoint that, even with all these negatives, his coaches gave him 22 minutes a game, and he still compiled the best offensive numbers among available guys, but in the end, I had to admit he's not a guy we would want to "run" the PP. Blast away, sure. But with that brain of his, running it was a stretch.

With all that said, he was in my initial top-3 for specialists, along with Malakhov (who he is a poor man's version of) and Berard (who was the highest risk and reward). But doing a bio for this guy would have been a harrowing experience. I think he's got much better potential than a large number of specialist-type players that have been taken in this draft, for two reasons - 1) he scored more points than they did, and 2) he earned more minutes than they did, proving that he was not a serious NHL liability and is therefore less likely to be a AAA liability than them. Compare him to a bunch of sub-20 minute specialists out there and I think he looks stellar. Compare him to some better specialists - look at Moe Mantha, for example, who clearly belongs here - and I think he has an edge too. Compare him to Poti who, ultimately proved his worth as a defensive specialist on a great team, and without those years was himself a 22-minute specialist with a comparable offensive peak, and it came down to what was safer. (not to mention the scouting reports rave about his sublime skills and how well he put them to use, not just how good his "tools" are that he rarely used)

Look at it this way - if your PP defenseman in the NHL goes down, and you're looking to the AHL for a call-up, and you have a guy who had 47 points the year before but has terrible hockey sense, and a guy who had 41 but is better in every other area (and was getting more icetime in the minors as proof), who do you bring up?

Even within a day or two of making the pick, Zalapski was on our radar. It wasn't until the very end that I 100% closed the book on taking him. What you're saying isn't lost on me. It's true that he did somehow score more points.


Last edited by seventieslord: 11-26-2012 at 02:05 AM.
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Old
11-26-2012, 01:28 AM
  #714
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
How on Earth was he still available?
I thought he and Sutter were the best guys out there. The thing is, it's really easy to quantify what Sutter's done. I can compare him to any NHL coach and make a strong case for why he's the best. I can't really do that with Starsi.

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11-26-2012, 01:55 AM
  #715
seventieslord
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We'll take 2 x Stanley Cup champion, Reg Hamilton, D

He played 10 seasons in the Original Six league, and was known for his toughness and physical play. He was said to have the meanest elbows until Gordie Howe took that away.

On my phone, so can somebody please PM the next GM?
You already know how thrilled I am to get Hamilton right now, but let me explain it to the rest of the league.

By the end of the MLD, any pre-expansion defenseman with any significant all-star or norris votes are gone. You're left judging them on quotes - but they all say they were solid, or tough, or stay at home guys, and it doesn't do much to distinguish them from one another. So what I have preferred to do is look at how long they lasted in this era, since jobs were tough to get and keep. It seems that 8-10 years is about the going rate for the best pre-expansion d-men in this draft. That's why I think Godfrey (11 years) is the runaway #1 of this class. Beyond that, I also look at context. How strong were the teams that the player lasted on? were they good teams, and/or were they deep on defense? That's why I think I like Kent Douglas the 2nd best in this draft. He got into a lot of O6 games, but would have played more if not for Toronto's depth.

But Hamilton just might be the 3rd. Because, not only did he play 10 seasons in the big league, but he did it for good, successful teams. Hamilton played 64 playoff games, which is the most for any defenseman in the AAA draft. In his 10 full seasons, the worst team he played on was one game below .500. His teams averaged 5 games over .500 over this time. Warren Godfrey, for example, in his 11 full years played for teams that averaged 3 games below .500 and played 52 playoff games in his career (the next-best mark in this draft)

As of 1967, Hamilton was 21st all-time in playoff games by a defenseman, with Godfrey (52, 38th) and Murray Henderson (41, 50th) pretty far behind, among players available heading into this.

I am shocked that he lasted this long, and not just because chaos was taking all the ATD2011 leftovers. We have seen him as the BDA since the Hardy pick. We both liked him over Hardy as an overall player, but we needed that pick to be tough enough to play with Lidster (which Hamilton was) but also with the offensive upside to play on the 2nd PP (which Hamilton lacked).

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Old
11-26-2012, 11:33 AM
  #716
seventieslord
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Iain Fyffe got back to me. Here’s what his points allocation system had to say about those 5 goalies I was wondering about. These are their best 6 seasons each, based on points allocation:

Bert Lindsay: 20.1, 18.1, 17.5, 17.5, 15.6, 15.5,
Hal Winkler: 19.0, 17.9, 15.5, 15.3, 14.4, 13.5
Hec Fowler: 17.7, 17.2, 14.6, 13.1, 13.1, 12.8
Jake Forbes: 15.1, 12.4, 11.1, 10.1, 8.5, 7.5
Earl Robertson: 18.1, 13.2, 12.4, 5.6, 3.3, 2.0

Notes:

- This is based on factual and subjective data. The team gets a certain amount of credit for how good defensively they were compared to the league average, and then that is split up among the players based on their own stats (as limited as they are), and their personal reputations.
- I made up a simple weighting system that weighs their best 6 seasons as follows: 20, 18, 17, 16, 15, 14. The way it worked out, basically Lindsay, Winkler and Fowler were very close (17.6, 16.2, 15.0) and a definite step up from Forbes and Robertson, who were themselves hair-splittingly close (11.1, 9.8).
- Lindsay’s next best 5 seasons total 47.2. Winkler’s total 76.2. Fowler’s are 13.1. I would give Winkler a definite longevity edge in breaking what was more or less a tie between these three. Fowler definitely lags behind, with little beyond his best 6 years.
- Forbes’ next best 5 seasons total 13.2, while Robertson’s next best 2 total -11.0. He doesn’t have other seasons to go by.
- It looks like this system actually takes hart voting into account when a goalie on a bad team really saves his team’s bacon. Forbes and Robertson both have a couple of good Hart seasons, particularly Robertson. Point Allocation says that Forbes’ 1924 and 1925 were well behind his 1921 (a year that there was no hart trophy), and ahead of all his other seasons. Robertson’s 4th and 5th in hart voting in 1939 and 1949 are correctly reflected as his two best seasons. It seems like these two could peak as high as the other three; the problem was keeping up up for more than a couple of seasons.
- One possible limitation is that not all leagues are included. All the top ones obviously are, plus the PCHL (I don’t mean PCHA), SHL, PHL, UOVHL, FAHL, APH, FHL, WAHL, WAPHL, MMHL, MAHL, SSHL, OHA, CPHL, and CAHL, which is a ****load of leagues already. Hal Winkler, for example, gets a ton of credit for being very dominant in lesser leagues prior to 1922. Actually, his 3rd and 5th-best season are included there. Bert Lindsay’s 5th-best season was in the FHL, and Earl Robertson’s 5.6 score in the 1933 WCHL was deemed more impressive than his 1941 and 1942 NHL seasons. And Forbes’ 6th-best season was in the CAHL, where he dominated for a season before coming back to the NHL as a backup.
- If I named 14 leagues that were included other than the top leagues, that doesn’t sound like much of a limitation, right? Well in this case it excludes 1931, 1932, 1934, 1935, 1936, and 1937 for Earl Robertson (PCHL, Cal-Pro, NWHL, IHL, IAHL), nor does it include him playing some fairly dominant AHL hockey in the 1942 season after being sent down for the last time. It misses a very dominant Cal-Pro season for Fowler in 1930, for Winkler it misses a bit (but not much) from the 1931 Can-Am league, and for Forbes it looks like for 1930-1936 it ignores everything he did in the Can-Am and IHL (157 games) in favour of his NHL time those seasons (10 games) – it’s very likely his minor league contributions were more noteworthy those seasons. They probably wouldn’t have made that big a dent on his prime numbers, but they’d have beefed up his career even more.
- Long story short, there appears to be a definite gap from the Lindsay/Fowler/Winkler tier, to the Robertson/Forbes tier based on their respective top league play, but it is likely not as large as these numbers indicate since the latter two are the players with large portions of their minor league careers not included. I have reached out to him to see why this wasn't included. It may be that he didn't do those leagues as they're "too minor", or he did and forgot to include them in his sheet that he sent to me. I will update when I know more.


Last edited by seventieslord: 11-26-2012 at 02:12 PM.
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Old
11-26-2012, 03:33 PM
  #717
tony d
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So who's up?

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11-26-2012, 04:06 PM
  #718
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I think you were skipped and Hedberg is up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony d View Post
So who's up?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
We'll take 2 x Stanley Cup champion, Reg Hamilton, D. He played 10 seasons in the Original Six league, and was known for his toughness and physical play. He was said to have the meanest elbows until Gordie Howe took that away. On my phone, so can somebody please PM the next GM?
Quote:
255 Velociraptor - Utah Grizzlies - SKIPPED
256 chaosrevolver - Belleville Bulls - SKIPPED
257 Bring Back Scuderi - Pittsburgh Professionals - ON THE CLOCK
258 tony d - St. John's Monsters -
259 seventieslord & Dreakmur - Regina Pat Canadians - Reg Hamilton, D
260 Hedberg - Fort Saskatchewan Traders -
261 jkrx & Hobnobs - Sheffield Steelers -
262 tarheelhockey - Macon Whoopee -
263 BudsBuster - Birmingham Barracudas -
264 Mike Farkas - Buffalo Mugwumps -

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11-26-2012, 04:09 PM
  #719
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I think you were skipped and Hedberg is up.
Maybe Hedberg is skipped too, maybe Im skipped?

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11-26-2012, 05:31 PM
  #720
seventieslord
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Maybe Hedberg is skipped too, maybe Im skipped?
maybe. just go ahead and pick, PM the next guy and we'll consider ourselves on track from here.

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11-26-2012, 06:13 PM
  #721
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Maybe Hedberg is skipped too, maybe Im skipped?
Who's on stage?

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Old
11-26-2012, 06:38 PM
  #722
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The Steelers selects back-up goalie, Kjell Svensson, G.



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Stand-up goalie who read the game admirably. Something of a genius tactician already as a player. Directed the game with powerful verbal voice.
- European Championship Bronze Medal 59/60, 60/61, 64/65
- European Championship Gold Medal 61/62
- European Championship Silver Medal 62/63, 63/64, 66/67
- Olympic Silver Medal 63/64
- Sweden All-Star Team 59/60, 60/61, 62/63, 63/64
- World Championship All-Star Team 62/63
- World Championship Bronze Medal 64/65
- World Championship Gold Medal 61/62
- World Championship Silver Medal 62/63, 63/64, 66/67
- SEL-Gold 1956

Quote:
One of Sweden's really great goalkeepers of all time. Rarely "swam" after the ice but instead worked mostly standing. Something he learned from the canadian goalkeeper Jack Siemon. Was also very vocal on the ice and could be heard over the announcer on TV and radiobroadcast when he steered the team. Was almost impossible to pass on breakaways from the outside.
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Got the chance together with XXX to go over to Canada and test the game with the Toronto Maple Leafs. Despite contract offer they chose to return home to Sweden.
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For the season 1960, Kjell tired of the bench and went to taberg sk in Division II. Although he did not play in the top division Kjell got picked for the Olympics in Squaw Valley. There he had his international breakthrough after having performed a monstrous goalie performance in the 2-2 match against the Soviet Union. Then he went straight up. Kjell went to AIK before 1961 and was of course continued confidence in the squad.
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As goalkeeper Kjell ranks as one of the greatest in Swedish hockey. He was steady and reliable, witty in close-quarters situations and had a vocal ability to direct the players. God help those who missed the mark ...

Kjell was a tactician, educational and overall very curious and inquisitive. His consistency and high standards shown by his four seasons (1960, 1961, 1963 and 1964) were taken in Sweden's All Star Team. Autumn 1986 was elected Kjell Ice Hockey Federation's board but had to resign after only six months because of his work at Saab-Scania.

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11-26-2012, 11:38 PM
  #723
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The Macon Whoopee select Steve Ott, C/LW


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Old
11-27-2012, 12:34 AM
  #724
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Nice pic!

For at least three reasons.


Last edited by seventieslord: 11-27-2012 at 12:41 AM.
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11-27-2012, 03:13 AM
  #725
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Fort Saskatchewan selects C Vyacheslav Anisin

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