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OKC Barons @ Charlotte Checkers, Sunday 11/25 1:00PM MDT

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Old
11-25-2012, 11:12 PM
  #226
CupofOil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly85 View Post
except for the fact hes butter soft and has little in the way of overall hockey sense.
He has been playing a lot better as of late playing with Hartikainen and Lander. Not only that but he has been noticeably more physically engaged and has even thrown a few big hits.
I guess that's how it is on HF. Once a player gets a reputation, it's tough for him to shake it no matter what he does.

As i mentioned before, he doesn't need to put up big points to be a valuable player because he has good defensive awareness and keeps defenses on their heels with his speed going into the offensive zone.

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11-25-2012, 11:19 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
He had 2 assists tonight and drew a penalty as well, not sure how anyone could whine about his performance, but it happens anyway. IMO Harski and Paajarvi will continue to get better as a combo the longer that they play together, that line could've had 4-5 goals tonight, they were that good.
Agreed, I thought the kid was done but he is starting to show signs of promise again. I don't think he ever becomes an elite power forward but if he could be steady 3rd liner who chips in secondary scoring I think most could live with that. Realistically, if he was anything more we probably couldn't afford him with all the other young expensive forwards on our roster.

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11-25-2012, 11:43 PM
  #228
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You couldn't call MPS soft in the 5 or 6 Barons games I've managed to catch so far this year. I see him finishing checks and going to the net.

On a semi related note, how dirty was Schultz' pass to Eberle on Eberle's first goal?
Head up looking at the net the entire time and tape to tape through the seam. Toooooo sick.


Last edited by Groucho: 11-25-2012 at 11:49 PM.
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Old
11-26-2012, 12:38 AM
  #229
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lol i thought the world was still falling for the barons ...

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11-26-2012, 08:05 AM
  #230
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Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
Take a second and check out a list of 10th overall picks. The last one to consistently play in a top6 role was drafted in 1988.
I assume you mean a top6 role in the NHL. If we were having this discussion about a guy who couldn't cut top6 minutes in the NHL, then maybe .... but this is a player who can't even score in the AHL. He now has nine goals in fifty two AHL games. That's pretty damn poor no matter how well he is playing in other areas of the game. Apologies to those posters who think goal scoring doesn't matter, but it is after all the purpose of the game.

And yes, I'm going to question those posters who say he's a demon on defense and on the PK. I just don't see it. I watch the games and I look for all the positive things I can see in his game and the only thing I can come up with is he skates real good.

On defense he's stapled to the boards high up toward the blueline waiting for an outlet pass (not necessarily the bad play of course, but certainly nothing special). He rarely engages down low and when he does, I've seen him lose his man on more than one occasion this season when it resulted in a goal against. He's also one of only three Barons forwards (along with Pitlick and Hamilton) with a cumulative minus for the season to date. Sorry I'm not buying the defensive wizardry he gets credited with.

On the PK he's decent, but in the games I've seen its been VandeVelde (who gets criticized for being too slow), Lander and even Byers that stand out more than MPS.


Quote:
The problem is setting an unrealistic expectation. Not him failing to meet it.
This I agree with to some extent. I understand that its great to be positive about the young players on the roster but after watching him in his first NHL season it was clear to me that this was a marginal NHL player at best. I know you were privy to some of the discussions that happened elsewhere concerning this player and how those of us who questioned his "talent" were ridiculed. It was a given (in Paajarvistan) that since he put up fifteen goals in his first season he was going to be a sixty point, top6 player ..... never mind that half of his goals that season were fluke or came as a result of great work by better players to set the table for him.

But hey, even all that would be fine if it wasn't for the annoying fact that the core MPS fanatics are also the same posters who run down players like Gagner and Omark at every opportunity.

Gagner, a player who doesn't have nearly the physical attributes of MPS, yet did more in his first season (as an eighteen year old kid on a horrible team) than MPS will ever do in the NHL.

And Omark, a player with more creativity in his toenail than MPS could ever hope to have ... and a player who for all his perceived shortcomings (too slow, too small, bad defensively) put up AHL numbers that MPS can only dream of. Omark scored twenty goals and forty seven points in forty six AHL games .... and was a combined +11 over that span.

Yeah .... I'd rather have Omark on my team, and its not even close.

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Old
11-26-2012, 08:28 AM
  #231
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Yesterday was my favorite hockey night since cleavage nights in Pheonix when the Coyoties played the Kings in the playoffs last spring..

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Old
11-26-2012, 08:49 AM
  #232
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i think mps will make a great 3rd line winger! he has the size and speed and defensive awareness to go along with some skill and grit.

if he is not a to 6 player thats ok.

we need bottom 6 guys with skill and size as well.

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11-26-2012, 09:21 AM
  #233
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I know it's been said a million times - but I am completely blown away by Schultz. What he is doing is unprecedented. Is it possible that we got the next Lidstrom for free this summer? Neither was a 1st rounder (Lidstrom 53rd, Schultz 43rd), both spent a few years developing, similar size and style...I know comparing him to one of the top 3 dmen in the history of the game is a bit much, but I am THAT excited about this kid. Everything he does looks like it will translate, and I'm giddier than a schoolgirl about it.

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11-26-2012, 09:44 AM
  #234
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As good as Schultz has been I do think he has some room to improve in some areas, particularly in his own zone. He isn't physical at all and has a tough time with stronger players in the dirty areas, and this will get magnified in the NHL. He's got a really great defensive stick, but he can get out of position sometimes and he isn't great at blocking shots and passes. He doesn't get a lot of time on the PK right now because of this. He's a great passer and has great puck control but he's also prone to making some turnovers in his own end, especially when he's under physical pressure.

If he were in the NHL this year I think he'd be more of a 3/4, PP QB, o-zone starter kind of guy. He'd need to be paired with a strong defensive player and he wouldn't be the first choice matchup against the other team's top line, especially if they forecheck well. I think he'd still score 50+ points and play decent defense, which is a pretty awesome effort for a rookie defenseman no matter what.

Long term he has the hand-eye coordination, vision, patience, and the defensive stick to be excellent in his own end as his positioning and decision making improve.

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Old
11-26-2012, 09:51 AM
  #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harpoon View Post

Yeah .... I'd rather have Omark on my team, and its not even close.
I agree against mps but not for Omark.
Third line should be the veteran line. Shutdown line. Jones would be one of my choices. Young guys should be very good players or be on someone else's team. Average or hopeful rookies should be on the fourth.

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11-26-2012, 10:19 AM
  #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harpoon View Post
I
And Omark, a player with more creativity in his toenail than MPS could ever hope to have ... and a player who for all his perceived shortcomings (too slow, too small, bad defensively) put up AHL numbers that MPS can only dream of. Omark scored twenty goals and forty seven points in forty six AHL games .... and was a combined +11 over that span.

Yeah .... I'd rather have Omark on my team, and its not even close.
I didn't quote the rest of your post because i wanted to focus on this gem. Instead of going into any negative about Omark which has been rehashed a million times and doesn't need to be brought up again, i will focus on Paajarvi.
I think you're focused too much on offensive production and are not watching the game within the game.
Have you watched all the Barons games this season or just a few? I have watched every single one and Paajarvi has shown a lot of improvement over the last 10 games or so and in particular since Nelson placed Hartikainen and Lander on his line. He has become noticeably more physically engaged (has even thrown a few big hits), is crashing the net more, has played very well on the cycle and has drawn multiple penalties due to his speed.
He has also been active in the defensive zone and solid on the PK.

He obviously leaves a lot to be desired as far as offensive creativity is concerned but who cares, the team has enough offensively skilled players as it is.
If you look past his weaknesses and draft position, you will see that he has become a very useful player and is not the dud that you seem to be portraying him as.

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11-26-2012, 10:53 AM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Neatman View Post
Ive seem him make some absolutely terrible defensive gaffs. He isnt bad in general defensively, but he certainly has a lot of work to do if he wants to be a #1 D at the NHL level.

One thing I definitely dont doubt is his offensive skill and instincts. Incredible.
There is absolutely no question about that. To say a rookie pro has a long way to go to be a #1 dman in the NHL is like saying water freezes at zero degrees.

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11-26-2012, 11:18 AM
  #238
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How the hell has this post been derailed by another mind numbingly inaccurate thread about how good or bad Omark is or isn't

Anyone who knows anything about hockey will tell you MP is a far better NHL player than Omark. It is not even close.

Shultz has top pairing potential. Again. Stating the obvious.

Is Shultz a perfect defenseman no. No reason to guess how good he will be or won't be untill he gets to the show and proves. His bad lapses are no where near as bad as Plante or Tueberts on a regular basis.

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11-26-2012, 12:47 PM
  #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerchon View Post
How the hell has this post been derailed by another mind numbingly inaccurate thread about how good or bad Omark is or isn't

Anyone who knows anything about hockey will tell you MP is a far better NHL player than Omark. It is not even close.

Shultz has top pairing potential. Again. Stating the obvious.

Is Shultz a perfect defenseman no. No reason to guess how good he will be or won't be untill he gets to the show and proves. His bad lapses are no where near as bad as Plante or Tueberts on a regular basis.
But you're not basing that solely on that stats lines man!

If Paajarvi hasn't matched his rookie point totals by his 6th season then I'll start to worry about him.

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11-26-2012, 03:07 PM
  #240
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MPS still has a lot of potential, he just needs to continue adapting to the North American game, but he's coming around slowly. I do think though that he played in Europe too long and he would be a couple steps ahead if he'd have come and played in North America sooner. That's not the case for every player, but for him it seems to be true... something about his style of game and the expectations of him as a bigger player.

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11-26-2012, 03:34 PM
  #241
IV XIV XCI
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
I never expected him to be a big goal scorer, check my posts on him during his rookie season if you don't believe me. He has never been a big goal scorer on any level and just doesn't have the offensive instincts.

My point is that if he can be a good all around player that can supply a little offense and create havoc for defenders with his speed then he can be a useful player for the Oilers. The Oilers have plenty of goal scorers anyway, they can use more 2 way forwards.
It's kinda like Paajarvi is being molded into a marchant-pisani amalgamation with more size.

Or maybe not molded. Maybe that's just where his capabilities lie.

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11-26-2012, 03:43 PM
  #242
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I've said it a hundred times: Paajarvi == Dvorak v2.0

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11-26-2012, 03:46 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
I've said it a hundred times: Paajarvi == Dvorak v2.0
Which is definitely something we'll need at the NHL level. In the future is Lander can find some scoring but a 3rd line of Hartikainen - Lander - MPS I think would look really good 3-4 years from now.

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11-26-2012, 03:52 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by Reimer View Post
Which is definitely something we'll need at the NHL level. In the future is Lander can find some scoring but a 3rd line of Hartikainen - Lander - MPS I think would look really good 3-4 years from now.
It might be sooner than that.

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11-26-2012, 04:10 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by bewbies View Post
As good as Schultz has been I do think he has some room to improve in some areas, particularly in his own zone. He isn't physical at all and has a tough time with stronger players in the dirty areas, and this will get magnified in the NHL. He's got a really great defensive stick, but he can get out of position sometimes and he isn't great at blocking shots and passes. He doesn't get a lot of time on the PK right now because of this. He's a great passer and has great puck control but he's also prone to making some turnovers in his own end, especially when he's under physical pressure.

If he were in the NHL this year I think he'd be more of a 3/4, PP QB, o-zone starter kind of guy. He'd need to be paired with a strong defensive player and he wouldn't be the first choice matchup against the other team's top line, especially if they forecheck well. I think he'd still score 50+ points and play decent defense, which is a pretty awesome effort for a rookie defenseman no matter what.

Long term he has the hand-eye coordination, vision, patience, and the defensive stick to be excellent in his own end as his positioning and decision making improve.
I agree, but he just turned 22. You could take the greatest D men of all time and say they had some problems, esspecially at 22.

What he has done is just amazing. There is not much down side to be seen. I am not declaring him a NHL star yet, but, still, what has done is just phenomenal.

I was thinking where he would rank on a top prospect list now. I think he just shot up like mad, could he even be #1 now?

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11-26-2012, 04:16 PM
  #246
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right now I would say Paajarvi is like a Cogliano with size and on the wing..
I still think he is very raw but has a ton of potential..in recent games Ive seen him cutting to the net more and yesterday he made a hemsky like deke at one point..
hes also throwing a few hits here and there..
he looks like hes really listening to his coach and is always trying to do what coach says...doesnt look like it comes naturally to.him like it does to the other four or five..still though hes got enough speed to outskate pretty much anyone..hes got size and a great attitude..
I see Paajarvi is a keeper for at least another two years to see how well he develops..
another thing...he never seems to get injured even though he plays hard..a rare oiler trait these days..

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11-26-2012, 04:40 PM
  #247
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Taylor hall names AHL player of the week with 1 goal 8 assists and a plus 6 rating in 3 games


Last edited by Oilception: 11-26-2012 at 04:47 PM.
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11-26-2012, 04:59 PM
  #248
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Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
I've said it a hundred times: Paajarvi == Dvorak v2.0
I would be completely fine with that.

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11-26-2012, 05:08 PM
  #249
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Which is definitely something we'll need at the NHL level. In the future is Lander can find some scoring but a 3rd line of Hartikainen - Lander - MPS I think would look really good 3-4 years from now.
When people talk about those 3 on a line, I think some people would be apt to say it's MPS who would be stifled offensively, but today I think it's Hartikainen who would suffer and would be the first to move up in case of injury.

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11-26-2012, 05:10 PM
  #250
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Paajarvi right now is showing progress in his development everywhere but in terms of scoring goals. Right now he's shooting at a 4.6% clip, last year in OKC he was at 7%, in the playoffs last year he was at 4.4%. At some point he'll get a lucky bounce or two here and there and score some solid goals. I remember when people said that Schremp couldn't score at the NHL level because he only had 7 goals in his last AHL season (4.7% shooting %) the rest of his career in the NHL he scored 20 goals in 107 games and shot 13.1%. Now Paajarvi could only dream of having hands like Schremp did, but I still think that we have yet to see the best of Paajarvi's offensive game. Last game he made a nice move and almost scored with a backhander, I've never seen him pull that move off. This shows that he is working hard and trying to improve himself. While he'll never have great hands, IMO he still has the potential to be a 15-20 goal guy under the right circumstances. If he never gets there but gives us 30 points and solid defensive play on the 3rd line and the PK then so be it. In the meantime he is learning to play grittier and that is a positive sign IMO.

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