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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Mediators (MOD: US Federal Mediator Service brought in)

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Old
11-26-2012, 03:21 PM
  #26
cheswick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyforhockey View Post
Actually they havnt opened their books.....we get minute samples or "numbers of losses" etc but no books have been opened.

the only thing I have seen was the Florida books /situation being more open due to the city auditors... but thats it..


MLB had theri "books" before they had an independant auditor come in and he found there were alot of discrepenciaes ..ie revenue moved off the books to other areas ...expense from other areas of the owners brought in ....


Thats not to say that parts of the league are not in trouble.....but it is very unclear what the true nature of the financial health of the league is....
Just because you haven't seen anythign doesn't mean the NLHPA hasn't. The PA was given thousands upon thousands of documents by the NHL so they could confirm independenatly the numbers the NHL was giving them.

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11-26-2012, 03:32 PM
  #27
DL44
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Originally Posted by Hoarding Assets View Post
The NHL really didn't want this ... the owners really have to open their books now ... Bettman is getting canned
Transparency of the books has not been an issue this lockout. Everything is audited and shared.

Despite this only being a mediation and not an arbitration, you can hopefully expect the Owners stance to be better communicated... i.e. you would think Bettman would have to provide more extensive details and reasoning of the owners stance behind the scenes then they have done publicly beyond "its a deal that's good for the owners, the players and fans".

If it was an arbitration setting, both sides would have to lay out their cases to get the favorable rulings in each aspect of the CBA..

But its a mediation.. basically people in place to help eliminate stall tactics, and keep communication and negotiations going.

Better than nothing.. and could lead to something positive... They are too close for this to lead to the demise of an NHL season... One would have to be optimistic of that absolute point.
When it happens? there still seems to be a few ups and downs left on this ride...

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Old
11-26-2012, 03:44 PM
  #28
KINGS17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoarding Assets View Post
The NHL really didn't want this ... the owners really have to open their books now ... Bettman is getting canned
Some new law I have never heard of?

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Old
11-26-2012, 03:53 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
Just remember that Mediation did't help anything during the 2004-05 NHL lockout.

This is probaby the last thing before the players go all out for decertification .
They only started mediation days before the season got canceled, there wasn't time enough to help anything. At least they still have weeks this time around.

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11-26-2012, 03:56 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by NJDevs26 View Post
They only started mediation days before the season got canceled, there wasn't time enough to help anything. At least they still have weeks this time around.
3 days prior in 2005 was the what i heard reported.

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Old
11-26-2012, 04:00 PM
  #31
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If were to guess... at worst general opinion of how the CBA negotiations were going based on the same public info everyone has..
From what I saw, none of them had anything to do with the NHL. It was used as more of a personal account so there was a lot of "unprofessional" stuff that you wouldn't want thousands of people to be pouring over after getting publicity for being mediator in such a huge dispute. I suspect that they assign mediators who have no interest or personal stake in the NHL dispute.

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Old
11-26-2012, 04:11 PM
  #32
LadyStanley
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Some new law I have never heard of?
The NHLPA has had the option to audit any team's books under the CBA to ensure all HRR is being reported.

(But it's not open to public)

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Old
11-26-2012, 04:46 PM
  #33
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@Real_ESPNLeBrun: Never mind on Serota, the federal mediators have decided to remove him from the NHL case.



I wonder why that could be

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Old
11-26-2012, 04:46 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
The NHLPA has had the option to audit any team's books under the CBA to ensure all HRR is being reported.

(But it's not open to public)
Yes, back when there was a CBA.

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Old
11-26-2012, 04:51 PM
  #35
KINGS17
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
The NHLPA has had the option to audit any team's books under the CBA to ensure all HRR is being reported.

(But it's not open to public)
Exactly, so the NHL will not be "opening" their books.

I don't see how federal mediation is going to help. Neither side has to listen to the mediator, and it's just another party that has to get up to speed.

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Old
11-26-2012, 05:05 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
Would prefer binding arbitration but this is a step in the right direction. Hopefully the mediators can put some wind behind these sails.
I don't know much about the process involved with labor law and so on, but who has the authority to push the PA and the League to accept "binding arbitration"? This is a negotiation between equals and, barring some lawyering (decertification, impasse), it will remain so.

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Old
11-26-2012, 05:17 PM
  #37
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Accepting an arbiter's ruling may be a way for Bettman and Fehr to both compromise while saving face. The crucial point to remember is that an arbiter will accomplish nothing unless the real parties involved want him to.

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Old
11-26-2012, 05:23 PM
  #38
LadyStanley
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Originally Posted by CpatainCanuck View Post
Accepting an arbiter's ruling may be a way for Bettman and Fehr to both compromise while saving face. The crucial point to remember is that an arbiter will accomplish nothing unless the real parties involved want him to.
But this is mediation, not arbitration.

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Old
11-26-2012, 05:24 PM
  #39
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FINALLY, now Bettman can't run the show

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Old
11-26-2012, 05:31 PM
  #40
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A mediator is far from an arbitrator. Neither side would agree to that.

What a mediator can do is cut down on the posturing and try to find a compromise.

Either side can walk away from a mediation at any time, but they better have a reason that they're doing so that they can sell to their stakeholders.

The NHL finally agreeing to mediation at this point would indicate one of two things to me:
1) They're ready to sign a deal, but they don't want to just accede to the players' last offer.
2) They're trying to delay the coming decertification vote.

Maybe a little of both. They likely believe that they can get a better outcome from mediation than they can through the decertification process though.

The owners have to know that if the NHL walks away from the mediation, decertification is a virtual guarantee. At the same time, if Fehr walks away from mediation, he's going to have a lot of explaining to do to the players who just want to see a deal done on the best terms possible.

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Old
11-26-2012, 05:38 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
But this is mediation, not arbitration.
Still might make it easier for both to make an agreement...

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Old
11-26-2012, 05:46 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
But this is mediation, not arbitration.
... exactly, non-binding, bringing in a 3rd party to "hopefully" facilitate an agreement. The NHL is playing hardball. Using the same playbook as the other 2 major sports leagues recent & contentious labour negotiations, will use the precedents set therein to argue their case. Not "if" but "when" Mediation fails, the options thereafter will be Binding Arbitration or Court. Though intimated, NHLPA Decertification strikes me as being a complete non-starter, an empty threat, and the NHL knows it. Im no Lawyer, but if whats gone on to date has been merely the salad, Mediation the soup, the entree' will likely be Court itself, as I simply cant see the league ever agreeing to participate in Binding Arbitration, losing control in anyway whatsoever. So barring a miracle, loosen your seatbelts, get comfortable, I think we'll be in the air circling for quite some time to come unfortunately.

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11-26-2012, 05:55 PM
  #43
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On what planet is decertification an empty threat? If the season is cancelled, it's not only likely, I'd say it's a virtual certainty.

If this was the NHL's masterplan all along, why didn't they push for mediation earlier?

Sorry, your comments are totally inconsistent with the facts.

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Old
11-26-2012, 05:58 PM
  #44
LadyStanley
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helenenothelen 3:39pm via Web
Bill Daly, 2/10/05, on mediators not resolving lockout: "They made a determination that in this type of negotiation, where there's a
single issue where the parties aren't in the same sphere, they didn't see how they could assist the process in reaching a resolution."
Save that Daly quote from 2005 that i just retweeted. Betcha he will say something an awful lot like that again, and soon.

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Old
11-26-2012, 06:03 PM
  #45
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The benefit of mediation is if their is a published report of mediation findings. It doesn't remove just the spin between the negotiators, it removes the spin for the constituencies. It might settle the close/not close issue for the constituencies of both sides.

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Old
11-26-2012, 06:03 PM
  #46
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Wasn't there different circumstances last time round. They were hugely apart last time and everyone practically knew and accepted that a season would be lost. This time round they're a lot closer and only a few hundred million.

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Old
11-26-2012, 06:09 PM
  #47
LadyStanley
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http://www.nj.com/devils/index.ssf/2...ral_media.html

Chere: Will federal mediators help more than in 2004-05?

With an update from FMCS on removal of Serota:
Quote:
Within one hour after I issued a press release announcing that further negotiations between the NHL and NHLPA would be conducted under the auspices of the FMCS, it has been called to my attention that there are issues involving an allegedly hacked Twitter account associated with Commissioner Guy Serota, one of the mediators I assigned. Accordingly, in order to immediately dispel any cloud on the mediation process, and without regard to the merits of the allegations, I have determined to take immediate action, namely to remove Commissioner Serota from this assignment.

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Old
11-26-2012, 06:10 PM
  #48
Killion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
On what planet is decertification an empty threat? If the season is cancelled, it's not only likely, I'd say it's a virtual certainty. If this was the NHL's masterplan all along, why didn't they push for mediation earlier? Sorry, your comments are totally inconsistent with the facts.
.... no problem Ernie, and no need to apologize for disagreeing. Within many legal circles that I follow the suggestion the NHL's strategy was to push for Decertification is actually scoffed at. A Pandora's Box that once opened could potentially reverse Darwin the players gains of the past 2 decades substantively. That having a compliant Union, one in constant disarray with a CBA in place is preferable, providing buffers to anti-trust charges amongst other factors. Just how accurate such opinions might be Im not completely sure, hence the qualifying opening of "no need to apologize". Im simply conveying a school of thought on the matter, make no pretensions to even really fully grasping the issue, ramifications. Just throwing it out there.

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Old
11-26-2012, 06:16 PM
  #49
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Surprise surprise surprise...

The NHL and PA doing something they shoulda done several months ago.

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Old
11-26-2012, 06:35 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madhi19 View Post
It a mediator not an arbitrator!
Based on his post, I believe that cbcwpg

a) already knows that it's a mediator, and
b) would have preferred an arbitrator instead.

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