When people talk about those 3 on a line, I think some people would be apt to say it's MPS who would be stifled offensively, but today I think it's Hartikainen who would suffer and would be the first to move up in case of injury.
At this point in time Hartikainen has passed Paajarvi on our depth chart IMO. That said there will be room for both players and they could form 2/3's of a solid NHL 3rd line.
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Paajarvi right now is showing progress in his development everywhere but in terms of scoring goals. Right now he's shooting at a 4.6% clip, last year in OKC he was at 7%, in the playoffs last year he was at 4.4%. At some point he'll get a lucky bounce or two here and there and score some solid goals. I remember when people said that Schremp couldn't score at the NHL level because he only had 7 goals in his last AHL season (4.7% shooting %) the rest of his career in the NHL he scored 20 goals in 107 games and shot 13.1%. Now Paajarvi could only dream of having hands like Schremp did, but I still think that we have yet to see the best of Paajarvi's offensive game. Last game he made a nice move and almost scored with a backhander, I've never seen him pull that move off. This shows that he is working hard and trying to improve himself. While he'll never have great hands, IMO he still has the potential to be a 15-20 goal guy under the right circumstances. If he never gets there but gives us 30 points and solid defensive play on the 3rd line and the PK then so be it. In the meantime he is learning to play grittier and that is a positive sign IMO.
I am a Paajarvi fan but if you see where he takes his shots from and the kind of shots he takes, he is lucky that 4.6% are going in.
I am a Paajarvi fan but if you see where he takes his shots from and the kind of shots he takes, he is lucky that 4.6% are going in.
I hear this a lot when the fact remains that most shots are from the perimeter with the exception of the highly skilled guys. He has yet to get a lucky bounce cutting to the net, getting passes in front of the net, etc. The way some people talk it's like every shot of his is from the blue or red line.
How the hell has this post been derailed by another mind numbingly inaccurate thread about how good or bad Omark is or isn't
You are responsible for the content of your own post. No one else can derail it for you.
And maybe check the definition of derailed for next time. Hint* it takes more than two posts to derail a ten page thread.
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Anyone who knows anything about hockey will tell you MP is a far better NHL player than Omark. It is not even close.
I guess if you want a guy who skates really fast up and down the wing and accomplishes very little then MPS is your man.
I suppose there is even a place for warm bodies like that on an NHL roster.
My comment was that "I" would rather have Omark on "my" team. Meaning if I was an owner or a player I know who I'd rather have on my team or on my line.
Ask yourself this ... when was the last time MPS brought you out of your seat? We all know the answer to that question is never.
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Originally Posted by nabob
But you're not basing that solely on that stats lines man!
If Paajarvi hasn't matched his rookie point totals by his 6th season then I'll start to worry about him.
So are we going off stats or not?
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Originally Posted by oilers2k10
right now I would say Paajarvi is like a Cogliano with size and on the wing..
Yup. Dime a dozen.
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another thing...he never seems to get injured even though he plays hard..a rare oiler trait these days..
Its a good point and something I hadn't considered.
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil
Last game he made a nice move and almost scored with a backhander, I've never seen him pull that move off.
And you still haven't. Because "pulling it off" would equate to depositing the puck in the net. Oh well, "almost" seems to be the story of this kid's career.
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This shows that he is working hard and trying to improve himself.
Absolutely. He seems like a hard working guy and the sort of player who listens to what he's told.
Some talent to go with those attributes would be nice however.
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If he never gets there but gives us 30 points and solid defensive play on the 3rd line and the PK then so be it.
Thing is guys like that can be picked up for a song any day of the season. What did Jones cost us again?
Spending years developing a third line checker doesn't seem like the best use of a roster spot to me.
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In the meantime he is learning to play grittier and that is a positive sign IMO.
Good for him.
Look I know this player is only 21 and there is plenty of time for him to "develop".
For the sake of the team I hope he turns into a serviceable NHL player. Personally, I don't see it happening. I'll drop the topic now.
And you still haven't. Because "pulling it off" would equate to depositing the puck in the net. Oh well, "almost" seems to be the story of this kid's career.
I worded that poorly, the point that I was trying to make is that I had never seen him attempt that in a game before and it shows that this young dog can still learn some new tricks. To be effective he'll need to be less predictable and adding that shot makes him a little less predictable IMO.
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Absolutely. He seems like a hard working guy and the sort of player who listens to what he's told.
Some talent to go with those attributes would be nice however.
He has some talent, IMO a lack of talent isn't as big of an issue as not reading the play as well as he should in the offensive zone.
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Thing is guys like that can be picked up for a song any day of the season. What did Jones cost us again?
Spending years developing a third line checker doesn't seem like the best use of a roster spot to me.
Good for him.
Look I know this player is only 21 and there is plenty of time for him to "develop".
For the sake of the team I hope he turns into a serviceable NHL player. Personally, I don't see it happening. I'll drop the topic now.
Guys with his size and speed are not dime a dozen, that said I'd agree that you'd hope for more out of a top 10 pick, but if he at least becomes a serviceable NHLer that sure beats him not being a serviceable player.
I am a Paajarvi fan but if you see where he takes his shots from and the kind of shots he takes, he is lucky that 4.6% are going in.
Yeah I tend to take this view. I remember being amazed as well in 2010 how often the shots were going in and from what places.
The NHL provides scatterplot diagrams on exactly where most NHL goals tend to come from and within a much more confined area than might be expected. (with the exception of carefully screened blueline blasts).
MPS was scoring some goals from pretty unlikely areas and especially for a player without a known cannon of any sort. Not like he possesses the slight of hand either to work a first class screen and cloak intelligently into position. RNH has that ability, not MPS.
Paajarvi had a whole lot of lucky happening to bag that many goals.
I call it happenchance.
Last edited by Replacement: 11-26-2012 at 07:24 PM.
As you might have noticed, I live in Houston, and I am super excited for the Barons to come to town this week. However, the falcons game is also on Thursday, which creates a dilemma of epic proportions.
I hear this a lot when the fact remains that most shots are from the perimeter with the exception of the highly skilled guys. He has yet to get a lucky bounce cutting to the net, getting passes in front of the net, etc. The way some people talk it's like every shot of his is from the blue or red line.
You know... I'm as big a PRV fan as nearly anyone (my fiance has his jersey and I'm not a jealous guy
But it does seem to me like he takes more long range, perimeter shots than most guys. And I've not put my finger on why, but here are a few things I've noticed and perhaps there is a pattern to be made:
i) I've noticed that PRV seems to be the guy to carry the puck in the zone alot. Then he's in there, ahead of the play with little help to be found. I find I can't criticize the shot on net cuz he's always 1 against 2 or 1 against 1 with two guys covering his trailing teammates. Perhaps he needs to jam on the breaks and wait, or drive the middle hard then curl into safety before dishing?
ii) he's a battler who can win a puck... but he never has it for long. Didn't he play any soccer? We need Smytty to teach him how to protect the puck until help arrives. He's getting there, but perhaps b/c he's good on the forecheck, or just trying to force himself free too early, but the puck always goes the other way *just* a moment too soon.
iii) Is it me or is he always that guy taking a shot against two defenders while his teammates have already curled off for a change? Perhaps because of ii), they just spent an exhausting, multiple dispossession/repossession, shift in their own zone?
iv) I keep hearing PRV shifts possession from D-zone to O-zone, a strong trait to have, but would he still get credit with the puck in the goalie's chest? Perhaps if he did more of what's described in (i) his advanced stat numbers would go down, but the *quality* of those new possessions in the O-zone would go up, cuz he'd gain some support instead of forcing the first opportunity to shoot it as an avoidance tactic for losing the puck altogether?
Overall, I hate to say it, but he just seems to lack puck-poise. When have you ever seen him transition seemlessly to a little curl backwards while he surveys the land? Ever played soccer with a guy who's only move is to beat a defender wide and hammer a cross into the goal area? How often did that work out? Someone needs to teach him how to put his foot on the ball.
Absolutely. He seems like a hard working guy and the sort of player who listens to what he's told.
Some talent to go with those attributes would be nice however.
Thing is guys like that can be picked up for a song any day of the season. What did Jones cost us again?
Spending years developing a third line checker doesn't seem like the best use of a roster spot to me.
.
I don't think much of your criticism was too off base... but again... expectations vs potential return on investment. Guys like PRV will stick around for exactly the reason you mentioned above... a guy with a good attitude/receptivity, great skaing and aggravating habits can be taught.
Safer puck possession, for example... can be taught.
Also... what are we losing in this effort? We aren't wasting a roster spot on him. He's in the AHL where he's learning from our future head coach and it costs us little. He may stay there again this year... so what? Are you worried that he bumped Ryan Keller off the Barons? Is that a better use of PRV's current spot?
You know... I'm as big a PRV fan as nearly anyone (my fiance has his jersey and I'm not a jealous guy
But it does seem to me like he takes more long range, perimeter shots than most guys. And I've not put my finger on why, but here are a few things I've noticed and perhaps there is a pattern to be made:
i) I've noticed that PRV seems to be the guy to carry the puck in the zone alot. Then he's in there, ahead of the play with little help to be found. I find I can't criticize the shot on net cuz he's always 1 against 2 or 1 against 1 with two guys covering his trailing teammates. Perhaps he needs to jam on the breaks and wait, or drive the middle hard then curl into safety before dishing?
ii) he's a battler who can win a puck... but he never has it for long. Didn't he play any soccer? We need Smytty to teach him how to protect the puck until help arrives. He's getting there, but perhaps b/c he's good on the forecheck, or just trying to force himself free too early, but the puck always goes the other way *just* a moment too soon.
iii) Is it me or is he always that guy taking a shot against two defenders while his teammates have already curled off for a change? Perhaps because of ii), they just spent an exhausting, multiple dispossession/repossession, shift in their own zone?
iv) I keep hearing PRV shifts possession from D-zone to O-zone, a strong trait to have, but would he still get credit with the puck in the goalie's chest? Perhaps if he did more of what's described in (i) his advanced stat numbers would go down, but the *quality* of those new possessions in the O-zone would go up, cuz he'd gain some support instead of forcing the first opportunity to shoot it as an avoidance tactic for losing the puck altogether?
Overall, I hate to say it, but he just seems to lack puck-poise. When have you ever seen him transition seemlessly to a little curl backwards while he surveys the land? Ever played soccer with a guy who's only move is to beat a defender wide and hammer a cross into the goal area? How often did that work out? Someone needs to teach him how to put his foot on the ball.
What a great breakdown. Well developed observation and putting it perfectly into words.
Stuff like this is better than anything I ever see in print media. Kudos
As you might have noticed, I live in Houston, and I am super excited for the Barons to come to town this week. However, the falcons game is also on Thursday, which creates a dilemma of epic proportions.
Nice! Not even Edmonton fans have a chance yet to watch this line up especially with Schultz.
You can always bring your phone or tablet with you to keep track of the Falcons game. BTW, the way that New Orleans team is going, I'm taking the Falcons by 3 touchdowns!
What Paajarvi lacks is agility. He doesn't have great ability to turn with the puck, quite simply. Eberle is a guy who has nowhere near the top end speed of Paajarvi, but his agility lets him maneuver and buy time. Gretzky had superb agility (probably the best in the history of the game) with average speed.
If someone can teach Paajarvi how to make tighter cuts and maintain puck control while doing it, he'll be a much better player.
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What Paajarvi lacks is agility. He doesn't have great ability to turn with the puck, quite simply. Eberle is a guy who has nowhere near the top end speed of Paajarvi, but his agility lets him maneuver and buy time. Gretzky had superb agility (probably the best in the history of the game) with average speed.
If someone can teach Paajarvi how to make tighter cuts and maintain puck control while doing it, he'll be a much better player.
Magnus does not have the best hands in tight on goalies either. He usually just shovels the puck towards his pads and hopes it will find a hole somewhere.
Gretzky had superb agility (probably the best in the history of the game) with average speed.
Average for a top line player perhaps. He himself has said that if there was a loose puck he was going to do whatever he could to beat you to it and he usually did.
What Paajarvi lacks is agility. He doesn't have great ability to turn with the puck, quite simply. Eberle is a guy who has nowhere near the top end speed of Paajarvi, but his agility lets him maneuver and buy time. Gretzky had superb agility (probably the best in the history of the game) with average speed.
If someone can teach Paajarvi how to make tighter cuts and maintain puck control while doing it, he'll be a much better player.
Magnus could be a slightly better Radek Dvorak. D-vo has played nearly 1200 NHL games.
I've always been a Dvorak fan. I loved him and his two way play during the 06 run. I would be happy if he had a player like him again, but I would be a little disappointed if we used a 10th overall pick on it. I still have hope for Paajarvi to be an above average second line winger (15 goals and 25 apples). He's a project that's for sure, but there's no doubt he will be an NHL player in some capacity.
Im going to lay off Magnus from now on. Hes been playing well, but expectations just arent the same as they once were, and will never be. I hope he can turn into a quality 3rd liner that will be a bonus if he does. That being said, I really feel out of all the young players we have, he will be the one traded if needed.
You know... I'm as big a PRV fan as nearly anyone (my fiance has his jersey and I'm not a jealous guy
But it does seem to me like he takes more long range, perimeter shots than most guys. And I've not put my finger on why, but here are a few things I've noticed and perhaps there is a pattern to be made:
i) I've noticed that PRV seems to be the guy to carry the puck in the zone alot. Then he's in there, ahead of the play with little help to be found. I find I can't criticize the shot on net cuz he's always 1 against 2 or 1 against 1 with two guys covering his trailing teammates. Perhaps he needs to jam on the breaks and wait, or drive the middle hard then curl into safety before dishing?
ii) he's a battler who can win a puck... but he never has it for long. Didn't he play any soccer? We need Smytty to teach him how to protect the puck until help arrives. He's getting there, but perhaps b/c he's good on the forecheck, or just trying to force himself free too early, but the puck always goes the other way *just* a moment too soon.
iii) Is it me or is he always that guy taking a shot against two defenders while his teammates have already curled off for a change? Perhaps because of ii), they just spent an exhausting, multiple dispossession/repossession, shift in their own zone?
iv) I keep hearing PRV shifts possession from D-zone to O-zone, a strong trait to have, but would he still get credit with the puck in the goalie's chest? Perhaps if he did more of what's described in (i) his advanced stat numbers would go down, but the *quality* of those new possessions in the O-zone would go up, cuz he'd gain some support instead of forcing the first opportunity to shoot it as an avoidance tactic for losing the puck altogether?
Overall, I hate to say it, but he just seems to lack puck-poise. When have you ever seen him transition seemlessly to a little curl backwards while he surveys the land? Ever played soccer with a guy who's only move is to beat a defender wide and hammer a cross into the goal area? How often did that work out? Someone needs to teach him how to put his foot on the ball.
Funny you should say this, as it's actually a great play.
Thing is, you need to have support in the box for this work (or slot for hockey).
Nothing more terrifying for a goalie than facing a low, hard, driven cross that has the chance to either deflect off your own defenseman and in or end up on the opposing striker or supporting mids foot.
So what you mentioned is a great play that creates a scoring chance, but is relying on the player making that play to have support in a dangerous area to work.
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Originally Posted by Oilerdiehard
Magnus does not have the best hands in tight on goalies either. He usually just shovels the puck towards his pads and hopes it will find a hole somewhere.
Magnus hands are under rated. He's pulled off some pretty nice stuff in the Oilers skills comps and AHL shoot outs.
On more edit: I think the worst thing MPS ever did was score a hat trick in his first pre season NHL game
Last edited by Groucho: 11-27-2012 at 12:40 PM.
Reason: stuff and things.
"I guess if you want a guy who skates really fast up and down the wing and accomplishes very little then MPS is your man.
I suppose there is even a place for warm bodies like that on an NHL roster.
My comment was that "I" would rather have Omark on "my" team. Meaning if I was an owner or a player I know who I'd rather have on my team or on my line.
Ask yourself this ... when was the last time MPS brought you out of your seat? We all know the answer to that question is never."
I have always said I would rather watch an exciting Oilers team that losses, rather than watch a boring Oilers team that traps and wins. BUT. Omark is pushing the limits of that statement. Besides the shootout I find his style of play incredibly boring. All he does is hold on to the puck too long then gets knocked over. He creates very few chances with his always to the outside kind of play. I find MPS speed great to watch. Better if he drove to the net more and made somethig out of it but he has time to develope those skills.
"Yup. Dime a dozen."
MP has all the tools to be a third line winger for a very long time. Not a dime a dozen. If you can develope a quality 3rd liner from within your system and have him as a low cap hit... that stuff is a big part of a stanley cup team.
"Thing is guys like that can be picked up for a song any day of the season. What did Jones cost us again?
Spending years developing a third line checker doesn't seem like the best use of a roster spot to me."
For every Jones there are a ton of bad players that will help you lose day in and day out (Omark). We got very very lucky with Jones. I hope he signs for low and sticks around as long as possible. And since our top 6 is set for the next 5-10 years developing useful bottom 6 players is much more valueable to this organization.
"Good for him.
Look I know this player is only 21 and there is plenty of time for him to "develop".
For the sake of the team I hope he turns into a serviceable NHL player. Personally, I don't see it happening. I'll drop the topic now.[/QUOTE]"
I doubt you can refrain from posting your Omarkian propaganda.
