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Red Sox/MLB 2012 Thread Part XX-Time for Rebuilding

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Old
11-26-2012, 07:01 PM
  #476
24giovanni
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Would you guys do Lester for Wil Myers from KCR?

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/11/26...and-front.html

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11-26-2012, 07:12 PM
  #477
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Originally Posted by kman22 View Post
That's why it matters. They get gardner back, and their lineup is much stronger than ours. If the red sox are going to contend with a weaker lineup and at least the same amount of questions in the rotation, I'm not sure where their edge is exactly.

They finished last in the division with half a season of Agon, does swisher really make up for that departure, plus the huge gap in the standings. I doubt it, so i wouldn't burn a draft pick for him. That goes for the other qualified free agents, save for hamilton on the right deal.
i actually feel better about our pitching then i would if i had theirs. Lester shouldnt have another bad year, he's durable, in his prime and has the coach he had back when he was at his best. bucholz is another guy in his prime coming off a really strong year (if you exclude april, may and the first half of june). I attribute his bad start to bad off season work habits, and if he can come into spring training in shape he could also have a banner year. add in an improving doubront, a steadily mediocre lackey and another arm or two (morales? acquisition?) and this rotation could be strong.

obviously the bullpen has questions but they could be great too. bailey needs a bounce back year and thats probably the most important. I liked what i saw out of miller most of the year and theres a couple strong options for long relief with tazawa and mortensen, who both pitched well in spurts. Melancon and bard are huge questions but they aren't necessary for a strong bullpen, and if they can find some answers this offseason, the sox are looking at 5-6 guys who can really help them out of the pen.

The yankees meanwhile have phillip hughes, who has battled consistency and health issues throughout his career. as has ivan nova. CC sabathia is 32 years old, just about at the edge of his prime, and at his size, and injury problems this past year, he might fall off the rails. He could be a cy young candidate as well, but its closer to 50-50 odds between the two than it is improbable for either situation.
Kuroda is 37ish, maybe 40, and it would be amazing if he could do what he did for them last year. another candidate to get shelled early and often all year long. pineda is coming off tommy john, so another big question mark. So they could be a strong staff, but i think its more likely boston has a great year in the rotation then the yankees do.

the one edge NY has is the bullpen. they are losing soriano most likely, but with rivera and robertson thats a great 1-2 punch. boston could have a stronger bullpen in terms of depth, but it would be difficult for them to replicate the 8th and 9th innings that the yanks can put up.

I say edge boston, in terms of overall pitching, and it could be by a significant margin if kuroda shows his age, CC starts to break down, and pineda takes another year to get his confidence back with his arm strength NY could be the 2012 red sox. especially since they are tied to the shell of A-rod, an old raul ibanez, an old eric chavez (seriously i thought he had retired several years ago after oakland) and an old derek jeter. these geisers have to start slowing down sooner or later don't they? i'll throw in an oft-injured brett gardner for good measure and the yankees could be in for a perfect storm that leads to a dismal season. give me the red sox team of 2013 over the yankees and call me an idiot next september when NY somehow wins the division again.

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Old
11-26-2012, 07:20 PM
  #478
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Originally Posted by 24giovanni View Post
Would you guys do Lester for Wil Myers from KCR?

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/11/26...and-front.html
He looks like a good player doing a quick stat check, but no, not straight up. Lester even with a bad year is in his prime, young, durable and is a front of the rotation starter with a track record in the big leagues. too many prospects don't work out as they should (lars anderson, matt laporta (so far). The sox could look really dumb if they trade away a sure thing in lester for an unproven albeit promising young outfielder. Both teams would have to add i think for the sox to be comfortable pulling this trade off. I think alex gordon would have to come back as well from the royals and the sox would need to move a catcher. I say lavarnway but the royals would probably want salty. monte the GM would probably do that. worst case scenario they get a ML everyday OF in gordon in giving up lester and best case they get 2 with myers. It also opens up an oppurtunity to flip the now deep outfield core for starting pitching, (ellsbury, brentz, kalish, bradley junior).

Straight up, i'd probably do ellsbury though for myers. He's walking, or at least testing free agency next fall (most likely walking though) and myers could be an OF of the future under team control for several years. while lester is signed a few more years to a team friendly deal and is the teams 1 or 2 guy.

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11-26-2012, 07:34 PM
  #479
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Myers put up some fantastic numbers, but also struck out 140 times. I'd love him on our team though.

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11-26-2012, 07:41 PM
  #480
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Originally Posted by 24giovanni View Post
Would you guys do Lester for Wil Myers from KCR?

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/11/26...and-front.html
Not straight up. I'd want Danny Duffy coming back too. We cannot afford to trade Lester without getting some sort of pitching.

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11-26-2012, 09:04 PM
  #481
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Originally Posted by 24giovanni View Post
Would you guys do Lester for Wil Myers from KCR?

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/11/26...and-front.html
IMO, a team that badly needs pitching help should not be trading their best pitcher for an OF prospect. Meyers might end up being a great player but I don't think the Red Sox can make a deal like that right now.

Rob Bradford says nothing is close and Pete Abraham says it's not happening.

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11-26-2012, 09:12 PM
  #482
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I wouldn't do it...but I had heard/read KC would be willing to give up any of their prospects except Myers.

If anything KC should be looking at TB....they have young pitching and need hitting. It seems like the most logical match.

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11-26-2012, 09:30 PM
  #483
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would do myers for lester.

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11-26-2012, 09:41 PM
  #484
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You gotta build around Lester. I say a big NO to the Royals. They can take Lackey though.

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11-26-2012, 09:47 PM
  #485
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You gotta build around Lester. I say a big NO to the Royals. They can take Lackey though.
You don't build around declining #2 starters last time I checked.

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11-26-2012, 09:48 PM
  #486
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Lester is overrated. You build around Pedro.

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11-26-2012, 09:52 PM
  #487
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You don't build around declining #2 starters last time I checked.
He had one bad year. Sorry pal, but I don't think he's declining. He'll rebound this year. Mark my words.

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11-26-2012, 10:30 PM
  #488
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs_19 View Post
IMO, a team that badly needs pitching help should not be trading their best pitcher for an OF prospect. Meyers might end up being a great player but I don't think the Red Sox can make a deal like that right now.

Rob Bradford says nothing is close and Pete Abraham says it's not happening.
Abraham is the biggest pompous ****** on twitter

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11-26-2012, 10:35 PM
  #489
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Lester is overrated. You build around Pedro.
Yeah, we Ciriaco is the piece we should build around. Elite talent.


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11-26-2012, 10:41 PM
  #490
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Lester has been regressing over the past 2-3 seasons. Our FO doesn't typically trade someone like Lester when his value is at his lowest though. I would absolutely move him in the right deal.

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11-27-2012, 12:39 AM
  #491
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Abraham is the biggest pompous ****** on twitter
I like him. He's quick to give the fans a dose of reality when they come up with these crazy fantasy trade scenarios that will never happen. The other day someone asked about a trade centered around Ellsbury and King Felix.

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11-27-2012, 12:41 AM
  #492
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Not straight up. I'd want Danny Duffy coming back too. We cannot afford to trade Lester without getting some sort of pitching.
I read that boston would send major league OF help and KC would send pitching also.

In the spirit of rebuilding, i'd do it. You get a power bat to go with bogaerts for years and it gives you a reason to move ellsbury for pitching (losing lester that is).

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11-27-2012, 08:24 AM
  #493
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He had one bad year. Sorry pal, but I don't think he's declining. He'll rebound this year. Mark my words.
Agree to disagree.

His FB has been on the decline, his strikeouts went way down last season despite more innings, he struggles in every must-win situation for the last 3 years, etc. Even IF you think he's going to "rebound", he's still a #2 starter. You don't "build around" #2 starters.

This team is still mediocre next season. If you get a chance to add a top 3 MLB prospect for a (best case scenario) #2/3 starter, you do it. You build for 2014 and beyond. I don't even think it's all that close. I'd add to it if I had to.

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11-27-2012, 08:38 AM
  #494
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I like lester, but I was dissapointed with him this year. I thought after the way 2011 ended, he would have had a great year. I wouldn't trade him striaght up for Meyers, but I'd move him if the right deal came along.

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11-27-2012, 08:51 AM
  #495
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I like lester, but I was dissapointed with him this year. I thought after the way 2011 ended, he would have had a great year. I wouldn't trade him striaght up for Meyers, but I'd move him if the right deal came along.
Out of curiosity, why not Myers? Myers is widely regarded as one of the best 3 prospects in all of baseball.

If you're open to trading Lester, what are you looking for in return? Are you just opposed to dealing for a prospect and potentially sacrificing a year or more, or do you think Lester is worth more than top 3 MLB prospect?

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11-27-2012, 09:00 AM
  #496
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I had a dream last night that we traded Ellsbury to the Mets

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11-27-2012, 09:03 AM
  #497
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I had a dream last night that we traded Ellsbury to the Mets
Moving him makes sense, since he won't re-up, but I can't imagine his value being very good since he's missed so much time.

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11-27-2012, 09:04 AM
  #498
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Out of curiosity, why not Myers? Myers is widely regarded as one of the best 3 prospects in all of baseball.

If you're open to trading Lester, what are you looking for in return? Are you just opposed to dealing for a prospect and potentially sacrificing a year or more, or do you think Lester is worth more than top 3 MLB prospect?
Because Jon Lester is a known commodity and until a prospect actually does something, he's just that.
It's not as if the Sox are that desperate at this point that they need to move him.
IMO the Sox need something else to go along with Meyers if they make this move.
Why sign Ortiz if you plan on dumping guys and going young? it just makes little sense to me.

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11-27-2012, 09:04 AM
  #499
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Moving him makes sense, since he won't re-up, but I can't imagine his value being very good since he's missed so much time.
Yea I wish we traded him after 2011. Big mistake not doing IMO since I don't think he's going to resign here.

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11-27-2012, 09:07 AM
  #500
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Yea I wish we traded him after 2011. Big mistake not doing IMO since I don't think he's going to resign here.
I can't imagine he would be back.

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