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Should we tank for MacKinnon?

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Old
06-19-2012, 07:27 PM
  #151
feds91
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If Habs had any real intention of tanking they would have kept Randy Cunneyworth as head coach.

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06-19-2012, 11:26 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by nyhabsfan View Post
1. We did not recreate tank nation, we had incompetent management.
2. Molson will not lose to win, because it flies against what this franchise has stood for over 100 years.
3. Teams with losing cultures don't attract winners.

Tanking is not a strategy, it's idiotic!

Everyone wants McKinnon, but you don't lose to do it.
No one that tanked can attrack winners???????

Detroit, chicago, etc. were in the basement for a while and look at the results.

Col ( Quebec) tanked for YEARS. And when they started winning, because of all the young studs they got by tanking, EVERYONE wanted to play for them.

Quebec tanked so much, the NHL created the lotterie.

Again, I'm not saying its what the Habs should be doing but it has been done before with positive results.

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06-19-2012, 11:29 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Habtacular View Post
It's not a proven option at all. No NHL team has ever gained success by deciding to lose before the season has even started.



You mean to replace Subban and Price, right? Or do you think they are the kind of losers that will be happy to stick around a team that would espouse such a ridiculous philosophy?
I said if the team has a bad start it is an option to think about. I never said to decide before the season starts.


No, not replace subban, Price, etc. To add young studs that the HABs can build around with Subban and Price, etc.

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06-20-2012, 12:14 AM
  #154
JSBach
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Not only does a bad season not guarantee MacKinnon or even a top three pick, it's really bad for player development. Sure, if we suck, we suck. But we shouldn't purposely suck.


Last edited by JSBach: 06-20-2012 at 01:09 AM.
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06-20-2012, 12:29 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by NORiculous View Post
No one that tanked can attrack winners???????

Detroit, chicago, etc. were in the basement for a while and look at the results.

Col ( Quebec) tanked for YEARS. And when they started winning, because of all the young studs they got by tanking, EVERYONE wanted to play for them.

Quebec tanked so much, the NHL created the lotterie.

Again, I'm not saying its what the Habs should be doing but it has been done before with positive results.
Le Nordique already had some of their best players while they were still in the WHA. They screwed up the Lindros affair, yet profited from it. However, the luckiest thing they ever did was to move to Denver.

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06-20-2012, 12:43 AM
  #156
Et le But
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Quebec's tanking for years is called "being a terrible team". That's why the draft exists, so even the most awful, poorly run franchises can have their day, to keep things competitive.

You really think having your team be the joke of the league for 5 years is something to be envious of? That the Penguins and Blackhawks wanted to have empty stadiums until they got enough picks to be contenders?

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06-20-2012, 01:14 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by feds91 View Post
If Habs had any real intention of tanking they would have kept Randy Cunneyworth as head coach.
Or hired Therrien! Not much difference really, they both suck!
Just one sucks in french!

Great move indeed! Mckinnon tank is on!

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06-20-2012, 06:30 AM
  #158
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Never tank the season on purpose, but at the deadline, if they are nearly out of it....sell sell sell.......

the top 5 picks next draft are supposed to be insane

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06-20-2012, 10:03 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Strokes View Post
People it's just a question. Is the brightest question, maybe not. But there's no reason for you to bash the kid for it.

Let's just see what happens this offseason, will Bergie make deals to help out the roster immediately? Or will Bergie make long term cautious deals throughout his reign in Montreal?

As for myself I'm not a fan off tanking for the sake of tanking, yes you'll get a great chance of getting a stud, but teaching the young guys on your team that losing is acceptable is the wrong way to handle your organization. In the end if the team is playing the **** like last season, then it won't be that hard to end up with a top 5 pick.
I've been saying this for months now: Build while contending. That is all.

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06-20-2012, 10:07 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
There's no reason to close this thread. The title is clear and if you don't like it then just be on your merry way. Same thing with the Ecklund thread or the soccer thread.

This is a discussion forum and no one that I can see is being disrespectful to anyone else.

We don't know what Bergevin or Molson are planning to or are going to do. If Molson is serious about bringing the Stanley Cup to Montreal this is one of the few viable ways to do it.
A reasonable, intelligent and thoughtful post.

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06-20-2012, 10:11 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Redux91 View Post
Man its a drag to see these types of threads posted on our boards now..

For me it was truly the only terrible thing about finishing dead last, ..is how people might want to do it AGAIN and again.. im considering myself lucky for forgetting much of last season already, but it still lingers, and we all know it was just absolutely horrible going through the season, you could see alot of people got disinteressted, and sometimes people have a right to be, we're allowed to expect more from this franchise as fans, thats just what history has created and everyone has to deal with it

hopefully molson knows what hes doing and is on the right track, the seeds are being placed and lets see what therrien can do with a team constructed by a rookie GM (and of course with the help of a ghost GM from last year)
If anyone gets 'disinterested' when the Habs struggle for a while then they've not got the stamina.

I never lose interest in the Habs, Never. Good or bad, I would never lose interest, and I don't give a flying **** about so called fans who do.

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06-20-2012, 10:21 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Habtacular View Post
It's not a proven option at all. No NHL team has ever gained success by deciding to lose before the season has even started.

Except the Nordiques, 2 cups, and Roy would have done squat without Fors and Sakic, and Penguins of course, tanking repeatedly twice in 12 years. 3 cups. And Tampa, 1 cup.

That's let's see, 5 cups more than us since 1991.

And watch the Oilers win the cup in 3 years to make it 6 more than us . After tanking for 3 years. They might win twice too.

Enjoy their parade, because it's coming.

Oh. And I forgot Chicago. Add one more cup we haven't won. Gee, I'm up to 7 cups won by tanking teams in the last 21 years. Out of a 30 team pool. Must be a coincidence.

You are being naive. Tanking for just 2 years looks pretty good to me.


Last edited by bsl: 06-20-2012 at 10:48 AM.
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06-20-2012, 10:36 AM
  #163
Paul Dipietro
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I get the feeling that after the draft the Habs will finally become a 2-line team (by drafting or trading for the elusive 2nd line LW). So I don't think that tanking is even an option

Then again, we'd still be a few key injuries away from having the same conversation.

Otherwise, I really don't see how we could draw something in by producing a partial vacuum in the mouth as bad as we did last year

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11-26-2012, 10:16 PM
  #164
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Up.

I don't see the lockout ending anytime soon, but if it does, the season could make an interesting year for Montreal to tank.

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11-26-2012, 10:27 PM
  #165
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Honestly, if a season there is, I think it would be the right time to tank. I am totally aware tha politically speaking this is unacceptable, however the perspective of having Galchenyuk + MacKinnon/Barkov/Lindholm/Monahan as my two first centers makes the idea very appealling. If we're going to be a bottom team, might as well tank for only half a season

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11-26-2012, 10:28 PM
  #166
Et le But
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I'm okay with playing well enough for Barkov or Lindholm.

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Old
11-26-2012, 11:12 PM
  #167
The Russian General
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It seems that won't be needed. :/

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11-26-2012, 11:36 PM
  #168
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I don't like the mindset of trying to tank before the season's even began. I made a lot of tank jokes last year but that was after the season was a foregone conclusion. I do understand the desire to tank, adding MacKinnon to our group of prospects makes it pretty easy to build going forward, but I personally don't like going into a season thinking that way. I also find it hard to believe we'll be sniffing last place again. The Gauthier gongshow is over, the coaching controversy is largely settled, Markov is healthy, Gionta is healthy, and Desharnais/Plekanec have been playing in Europe and staying fresh (Pleks has been tearing it up). Simply adding Markov to the mix gives us 3 legitimate top 4 defensemen, and then we can rotate fringe top 4 guys like Emelin, Diaz on a hot streak, and occasionally Boullion into the top 4. Last year we had a good pairing in Gorges-Subban, and then a whole lot of #5 guys. Now we have a good top pairing in Gorges-Subban, and a decent second pairing in Markov-Emelin/Diaz/Bouillion. That makes a huge difference.

The other big factor, is that Plekanec will have Gionta on his wing again. If Bourque can up his game just a little bit, a 2nd line of Bourque-Pleks-Gio will be much better than the absurd line combos we had last year (Blunden-Pleks-Gomez, Staubitz playing with our $5M center). We've solidified the bottom 6, and we'll definitely be able to roll 4 lines, so DD and Plekanec's lines can stay fresh. The PK will be its usual excellent self, and hopefully our PP will be better with Markov-Subban for a whole season.

I don't have any delusions of us being cup contenders by any means, but to call the hypothetical season a tank job already is a bit pessimistic. Keep in mind that last year was the perfect storm of a terrible year. Gauthier fired coaches on gameday, Cammalleri was sulking, Markov got injured, Bourque was uninterested, Gionta was injured, it was just a total gong show of a season and all of those factors happening again are unlikely (we led the league in man-games lost to injury). If everything goes right for us, we could be in the hunt for the 7-8 playoff spots. If we don't have as great a year, we'll probably end up 10-13. I just don't see us as a basement team, I don't think our roster is that bad.

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11-27-2012, 12:27 AM
  #169
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In spite of the bad season last year, I strongly believe that this team, healthy, is much closer to contending for the Stanley Cup than it is to finishing last. A healthy Markov and Gionta along with added maturity to young guys like Eller, Desharnais, Pacioretty, Subban, Emelin, Diaz and even Price, in addition to a new mentality with much needed toughness will go a long way. Not counting no offense-smothering Jacques Martin system...

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11-27-2012, 12:56 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
In spite of the bad season last year, I strongly believe that this team, healthy, is much closer to contending for the Stanley Cup than it is to finishing last. A healthy Markov and Gionta along with added maturity to young guys like Eller, Desharnais, Pacioretty, Subban, Emelin, Diaz and even Price, in addition to a new mentality with much needed toughness will go a long way. Not counting no offense-smothering Jacques Martin system...
Even if that team performs well and makes the playoffs it'd still be a bubble team. They desperetly need a real dominating player upfront, the centerline is not solid enough to go deep in the playoffs. We don't have enough scoring depth, the d-squad is interesting but still too soft and small, i don't see them going past the first round, unless they face a bubble team.

Still the weaker 2010 team went to the third round.

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11-27-2012, 01:04 AM
  #171
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Even if that team performs well and makes the playoffs it'd still be a bubble team. They desperetly need a real dominating player upfront, the centerline is not solid enough to go deep in the playoffs. We don't have enough scoring depth, the d-squad is interesting but still too soft and small, i don't see them going past the first round, unless they face a bubble team.

Still the weaker 2010 team went to the third round.
That 2010 team was stronger. Had a substantially better defense:
Hamrlik, Subban, Gorges, Gill, Spacek, (Mara???)
Also, Gomez was a superior player back then. We've basically lost Gomez.

The 2011 team that took Boston to overtime game 7 had:
Hamrlik, Subban, Gorges, Spacek, Wisniewski, Gill

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11-27-2012, 01:20 AM
  #172
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Originally Posted by JSBach View Post
Not only does a bad season not guarantee MacKinnon or even a top three pick, it's really bad for player development. Sure, if we suck, we suck. But we shouldn't purposely suck.
Normally I'd agree but if there is a season it'll only be a very short one. If there ever was a year to tank...

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11-27-2012, 01:59 AM
  #173
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habs are utterly ****ed if the NHL uses the same draft system as last lockout's (providing there is no season). we need a season. badly. so that at least we might suck our way to a proper high-end pick, and not some middle of the pack first round pick...

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11-27-2012, 07:58 AM
  #174
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habs are utterly ****ed if the NHL uses the same draft system as last lockout's (providing there is no season). we need a season. badly. so that at least we might suck our way to a proper high-end pick, and not some middle of the pack first round pick...
I see 13 potentially better teams than MTL in the east this season. If they play a shortened season they'll tank without even knowing! And we'd only have to go through 4-5 months of it!

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11-27-2012, 08:37 AM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Dirty Danglez View Post
I see 13 potentially better teams than MTL in the east this season. If they play a shortened season they'll tank without even knowing! And we'd only have to go through 4-5 months of it!
Or the season will be cancelled and Pittsburgh will "win" the lottery...

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