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12'-13' Draft Thread: Drouin & Monahan are LR's pick, what are yours?

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11-26-2012, 03:03 PM
  #451
Beleafer4
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Originally Posted by showtime8 View Post
You could basically have a team full of defencemen that try to score. I was being a bit facetious on the Jones comment because he's not going past 5.... but its just one of those things where you absolutely need forwards in your system that have high end talent.

Who can the Leafs hang their hats on to try and be that Phil Kessel, score 40 goals types? The last 2 shots that the Leafs had at having a high end forward was Jiri Tlusty and Nazem Kadri. You NEED a forward that is not a 3rd/4th line role player.
I agree but always draft bpa. Unless all else is equal, position doesnt matter. I.e had the coyotes picked kadri/pajaarvi/kassian over ekman-larsson because they have defenseman and need forwards, they would be regretting it right now. With OEL, they can now trade yandle for a stud.

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11-26-2012, 03:18 PM
  #452
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Originally Posted by showtime8 View Post
Prefix: I have not been able to see Sasha Barkov or Elias Lindholm, so my opinion is completely biased.

That being said, I can't really see many people making a legit argument that Nathan MacKinnon will not go #1. I find this close to the John Tavares-Viktor Hedmen debate where people were trying to say that Hedmen will be close to the player that JT is going to be. But you are going to hear a lot from the media about how Seth Jones will be a close 2nd and he could go to a team that is drafting based on needs.


But for the Leafs direct needs, you need the franchise centre. I don't care if the Leafs are picking 12th, 20th or 28th and Seth Jones is still there, you pick the centreman. In this years draft I see a couple of players that I would ideally like to take in the 1st round:

1. Sean Monahan - I think that he's going to like Adam Henrique type of player. A consistent player that could put up 50 - 65 points on the regular.

2. Hunter Shinkaruk - Although he wouldn't be my first pick, I think that he has a solid NHL career. Doesn't have the high end potential (IMO).

3. Morgan Klimchuk - If the Leafs end up picking in the teens, this is the guy they get. He's going to rise in the draft rankings and be a very good pro.
You'll get to see Barkov at the World Juniors... watch him. Many of his games are available on streaming, you can find the links in the Prospects subforum. You can also find Youtube links to his highlights in that forum.

Barkov has moved up to #3 on many draft predictions, and he might end up higher. At this point MacKinnon might still be ahead, but it isn't as much of a lead as it once was. Barkov is ahead of Monahan, Skinkaruk or Klimchuk though.

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11-26-2012, 03:58 PM
  #453
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Not at this point in their careers. Nate/Drouin and much better than Brown/McDavid. Drouin and MacKinnon went 1 and 2 in the QMJHL draft. Obviously McDavid shares this pedigree, but Brown was a 13th round pick.
Yes that was much better stated than mine haha.

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11-26-2012, 04:04 PM
  #454
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I would have to choose Barkov. He's 17 years old, 6'3" and still growing. Over a point a game in a men's league, and is strong in nearly every aspect of the game, including PK. While he is very talented, being big and talented is what I like in him. Goes to the net, and once he finishes growing at 6'3" - 6'5" and 230lbs approx, he'll be very difficult to contain, much like Sundin was. He is strong along the boards, and goes hard to the net. Given we could really use some size, and his talent level, I think he is a great fit for the teams needs.
This.

Can't wait for this draft.

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Old
11-26-2012, 05:11 PM
  #455
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Originally Posted by Fogelhund View Post
You'll get to see Barkov at the World Juniors... watch him. Many of his games are available on streaming, you can find the links in the Prospects subforum. You can also find Youtube links to his highlights in that forum.

Barkov has moved up to #3 on many draft predictions, and he might end up higher. At this point MacKinnon might still be ahead, but it isn't as much of a lead as it once was. Barkov is ahead of Monahan, Skinkaruk or Klimchuk though.
The only problem that I see with European players getting drafted is the time it takes them to get adapted to the North American style of play. Time and space is the biggest issue that will throw the younger players for a loop. For example, if Barkov is playing on the bigger ice, he is going to take an extra second to make plays, rather than on and off your stick. I do, however, like the fact that he is playing with men in the FEL. That causes you to develop a lot quicker.

I am excited to see the world juniors though.

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11-26-2012, 08:02 PM
  #456
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Originally Posted by showtime8 View Post
The only problem that I see with European players getting drafted is the time it takes them to get adapted to the North American style of play. Time and space is the biggest issue that will throw the younger players for a loop. For example, if Barkov is playing on the bigger ice, he is going to take an extra second to make plays, rather than on and off your stick. I do, however, like the fact that he is playing with men in the FEL. That causes you to develop a lot quicker.

I am excited to see the world juniors though.
Barkov's game is more North American though... most of his goals are scored close to the net, rebounds, quick redirects etc, getting the puck off his stick quick off of passes... Also a very good passer. Your concern is justified for the average player, but not for this one.

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11-26-2012, 11:57 PM
  #457
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Originally Posted by Fogelhund View Post
Barkov's game is more North American though... most of his goals are scored close to the net, rebounds, quick redirects etc, getting the puck off his stick quick off of passes... Also a very good passer. Your concern is justified for the average player, but not for this one.

That's a good sign then.

Look forward to watching that in the next month.

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11-27-2012, 12:17 AM
  #458
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Jones and Barkov have sky-high ceilings, it just so happens that one plays with men, and is a force at that level, all the while being at the position that this organization has been lacking for years. It just lines up.

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11-27-2012, 08:53 AM
  #459
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I think Barkov is too Russian for Burke, I'm sure he'd take Jones or Monahan over him, if he held the #2 overall.

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11-27-2012, 09:00 AM
  #460
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Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
I think Barkov is too Russian for Burke, I'm sure he'd take Jones or Monahan over him, if he held the #2 overall.
Doubt it. He loves talent and we had a player from russia as well, Komarov, Kulemin, and Grabovski and what not.

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11-27-2012, 09:15 AM
  #461
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I think Barkov is too Russian for Burke, I'm sure he'd take Jones or Monahan over him, if he held the #2 overall.
Any GM who disregards an answer to his problems because of nationality should have therapy for that problem. If his daughter married a Russian would he disown her?

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11-27-2012, 09:21 AM
  #462
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Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
I think Barkov is too Russian for Burke, I'm sure he'd take Jones or Monahan over him, if he held the #2 overall.
Well, considering he's Finnish i don't think that's an issue. Yes he holds Russian citizenship but, from what I have read, his national team has always been Finland so he's Finnish.


Besides, what your suggesting is asinine for a player of this caliber. Your telling me that if, somehow or another this came about, Burke had to choose between Malkin(Barkov) and Spezza(Monahan), he would take Spezza?
(Note: I'm not suggesting them as player types, merely the difference between them. Malkin being a franchise superstar, Spezza being a #1 centre.)

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11-27-2012, 09:30 AM
  #463
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Well, considering he's Finnish i don't think that's an issue. Yes he holds Russian citizenship but, from what I have read, his national team has always been Finland so he's Finnish.


Besides, what your suggesting is asinine for a player of this caliber. Your telling me that if, somehow or another this came about, Burke had to choose between Malkin(Barkov) and Spezza(Monahan), he would take Spezza?
(Note: I'm not suggesting them as player types, merely the difference between them. Malkin being a franchise superstar, Spezza being a #1 centre.)
If the same package could land either Malkin or Spezza and a GM took Spezza because of nationality he should be fired on the spot.

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11-27-2012, 09:43 AM
  #464
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Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
I think Barkov is too Russian for Burke, I'm sure he'd take Jones or Monahan over him, if he held the #2 overall.
Barkov's Finnish, and holds ties with Finland, and is currently in the Finnish SM-liiga over KHL/MHL even considering the benefits of playing in the more highly regarded Russian league.

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11-27-2012, 09:59 AM
  #465
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
If the same package could land either Malkin or Spezza and a GM took Spezza because of nationality he should be fired on the spot.
Exactly my point.

If Monahan and Barkov are both available when we pick, Barkov has to be the choice.

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11-27-2012, 11:51 AM
  #466
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Doubt it. He loves talent and we had a player from russia as well, Komarov, Kulemin, and Grabovski and what not.
Burke has never drafted a Russian in the first round.

I think (not 100% sure) that Burke has never drafted a Russian as GM of the Maple Leafs.

Burke has gotten rid of some Russians since he got here, and obtained none.

Not counting Grabo, we have only one Russian on our roster...is there a team with less?

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11-27-2012, 11:55 AM
  #467
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Originally Posted by Funk Volume View Post
Well, considering he's Finnish i don't think that's an issue. Yes he holds Russian citizenship but, from what I have read, his national team has always been Finland so he's Finnish.


Besides, what your suggesting is asinine for a player of this caliber. Your telling me that if, somehow or another this came about, Burke had to choose between Malkin(Barkov) and Spezza(Monahan), he would take Spezza?
(Note: I'm not suggesting them as player types, merely the difference between them. Malkin being a franchise superstar, Spezza being a #1 centre.)
It's one thing to sit here and compare Barkov to Malkin and Monahan to Spezza, but Burke can compare them to whomever he likes.

If Burke held Rielly as his 1st overall last year, that means he prolly would have drafted Rielly over Galchenyuk and Yakupov.

Burke has some drafting tendancies which can't be ignored.

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11-27-2012, 12:00 PM
  #468
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Barkov's Finnish, and holds ties with Finland, and is currently in the Finnish SM-liiga over KHL/MHL even considering the benefits of playing in the more highly regarded Russian league.
I think Galchenyuk was too Russian for Burke's liking also, nothing can be proven on my part but we know that we had Rielly ranked ahead of Galchenyuk.

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11-27-2012, 12:06 PM
  #469
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Burke has never drafted a Russian in the first round.

I think (not 100% sure) that Burke has never drafted a Russian as GM of the Maple Leafs.

Burke has gotten rid of some Russians since he got here, and obtained none.

Not counting Grabo, we have only one Russian on our roster...is there a team with less?
I posted some stats on Burkie past drafts last year, and I am certain he has not drafted a Russian since his days in Vancouver. Not a coincidence in my opinion. I don't think Gally or Grigornenko were that high on his list. Certainly not as high as Rielly was.

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11-27-2012, 12:10 PM
  #470
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I posted some stats on Burkie past drafts last year, and I am certain he has not drafted a Russian since his days in Vancouver. Not a coincidence in my opinion. I don't think Gally or Grigornenko were that high on his list. Certainly not as high as Rielly was.
We will get to see how that turns out ... in about 10 years.

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11-27-2012, 12:14 PM
  #471
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I think Galchenyuk was too Russian for Burke's liking also, nothing can be proven on my part but we know that we had Rielly ranked ahead of Galchenyuk.
Burke may show some bias, but he's not stupid. He always drafts by BPA and many people had Murray ahead of Galchenyuk in the draft order. Now there are scouts saying if Rielly was healthy he would probably have gone ahead of Murray. It's not that big of a stretch to have Rielly ahead of Galchenyuk is it?

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11-27-2012, 12:56 PM
  #472
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We will get to see how that turns out ... in about 10 years.
Burke is stubborn, we all know this by now. He has won a cup with well documentated moves of trading all the Russians off the roster and adding mostly Canadian Grit, sprinkled in with a few Finns and Swedes. He has a set mindset. I don't think he will not draft a Russian but he certainly has his preferences on how to build a team. Especiallly when it has been tried, tested, and worked.

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11-27-2012, 01:29 PM
  #473
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It worked once, and let's be real, trading away all of the Russians wasn't why it worked. Burke isn't dumb enough to believe that.

And counter to that idea, the Red Wings stocked up on Russians, and schooled the rest of the league for years. Ken Holland is no dummy.

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11-27-2012, 02:06 PM
  #474
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Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
Burke has never drafted a Russian in the first round.

I think (not 100% sure) that Burke has never drafted a Russian as GM of the Maple Leafs.

Burke has gotten rid of some Russians since he got here, and obtained none.

Not counting Grabo, we have only one Russian on our roster...is there a team with less?
It's a good thing Barkov is Finnish than...

And Burke has never drafted a Russian as a Leaf isn't proof of him having a bias against them.

Under Burke's positions in hockey.

From 1987-1992 he was the Vancouver Cankucks Director of Hockey Ops (which deals with drafting). Canucks drafted Bure, Evgeny Namestnikov.

In 1992-1993, Burke was the Hartford GM for both the 1992 and 1993 NHL drafts. He drafts Konstantin Korotkov, Andriee Nikolishin.

Burke is hired by the Canucks in 1998 and over his time with them drafts Pavel Duma, Fedor Federov, Evgeny Gladskikh, Konstantin Mikhailov, Kiril Koltsov, Denis Grot (now Belarussian but born in Minsk), Ilya Krikunov, Sergei Topol.

And if Burke really didn't like Russians, both Kulemin and Grabo would be gone instead of Grabo being resigned, and Kulemin also being resigned and not traded for Jeff Carter. Komarov wouldn't have been pursued as hard as he was.

It speaks more the trend of Russian players being playing in the NHL and being picked in the draft than something pointing to a bias against them by Burke.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey...-a-dying-breed

There was only 24 Russians actually playing in the NHL last year. Including Radulov. Is there a team with less than Toronto? Yep. A bunch of teams don't have one...

Only 13 Russians were actually drafted in the 2012 draft, out of 211 total prospects. 9 in 2011, 8 in 2010, 7 in 2009. So it's not just Burke not drafting these players. It's everyone. These are very small numbers. 6 percent of the 2012 draft crop was Russian. And you think it's relevant that Burke didn't draft any? It's not statistically significant.

This idea that Burke hates Russians needs to die. It's false. It's not based in logic nor in any discernible pattern in his career.

And Barkov isn't even Russian. He's Finnish.

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11-27-2012, 02:23 PM
  #475
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If we are left to choose from Barkov and Monahan, and we take Monahan, I will disown this team.

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