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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part VII: The Last Waltz "Cut the sheet & drop the puck!"

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Old
11-27-2012, 11:33 AM
  #676
Thirty One
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Those poor mediators.

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11-27-2012, 11:53 AM
  #677
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Those poor mediators.
IMO : If mediation fails then the season is done.

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11-27-2012, 12:05 PM
  #678
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IMO : If mediation fails then the season is done.
Of all the doom and gloom prophecies over the last couple of months, this is the first one I sort of agree with.

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Old
11-27-2012, 12:19 PM
  #679
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Yeah if they can't break the impasse through mediation, the season will likely be canceled in its entirety. Try to stay optimistic though.

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Old
11-27-2012, 12:27 PM
  #680
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Aaron Ward ‏@aaronward_nhl
NHLPA Executive Board and Negotiating Committee have a 4 PM (Eastern) conference call today. #TSN

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Old
11-27-2012, 02:15 PM
  #681
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imo its no news. only thing that will come out of it is if the mediator sides with one side then that side can win the pr battle saying they are right. but nothing is binding so anything the mediator says that goes against them they will just ignore.

In cases where both sides know the outcome, but they are each afraid to make a move for the fear that the other side will view it as surrender, the mediator can work. He can pressure both sides. He can talk to them one-on-one and get each to say that if the other side agrees to X, so will they, but they won't be the first to do so. Then he can say, "Look both of you want X, so can we just agree on that?"

The mediator is not supposed to side with one or the other.

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11-27-2012, 02:36 PM
  #682
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Don Fehr on with Francesa. Contract issues are THE key. Ownership wants to take away the gains made in free agency and salary arbitration in the 2005 CBA. Fehr said this is a tough one as far as the state of the "talks". The owners want 50-50 plus the contract changes.

Fehr is discussing the death of Marvin Miller with Francesa.

Fehr is not budging on free agency and arbitration.

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11-27-2012, 02:54 PM
  #683
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#CBA Richards questioned NHL's bargaining position, said league's "concessions" are "biggest crock I've ever heard."
https://twitter.com/KatieStrangESPN/...16700194967552

Tell that to some of the people on the main boards and other team boards. They say the NHL offering 50-50 from 43% to the players is a concession. It was 57%. Which side making the concession to 50-50? The owners.

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Richards calls @NHL's claim it is making concessions off 43% revenue back to 50-50 "the biggest crock I've ever heard.
https://twitter.com/NYDNRangers/stat...17121156284416

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Old
11-27-2012, 03:15 PM
  #684
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Sorry Brad...

The players making 57% (for how many years now?) is the biggest crock.

NFL Players don't...
MLB players don't...
NBA players don't...

wake up!

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11-27-2012, 03:56 PM
  #685
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Sorry Brad...

The players making 57% (for how many years now?) is the biggest crock.

NFL Players don't...
MLB players don't...
NBA players don't...

wake up!
True, but it was the owners and Bettman who signed that faulty deal into effect. And once you give someone an entitlement, its awfully difficult to take it back as we're seeing. Too much is being made of the 43% stuff - thats just part of a negotiation. These players are almost detached from the real world - they have agents and organizations catering to their every whim. They dont immerse themselves in business - they play hockey. Its whats lead to some truly bone-headed quotes from a ton of players who think they know whats going on.

I find it hard to believe that the NHL is willing to miss another season over the contract issues. Term lengths need a limit, or at least a sanction that prevents big drops in year to year salaries. The league is going to throw the season away over arbitration rights or the age of free agency? That'd be low, even for Bettman. I dont buy it.

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Old
11-27-2012, 03:59 PM
  #686
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Originally Posted by Riche16 View Post
Sorry Brad...

The players making 57% (for how many years now?) is the biggest crock.

NFL Players don't...
MLB players don't...
NBA players don't...

wake up!
The problem is I can say, we're offering 20% and then say well now I'll offer you 40% and call that a concession. The fact is that before it was above 50% anything less than it was before is a concession from the players, not the other way around.

I'm not on either side of this mess. Both sides are a bunch of idiots and are running the risk of ruining the league and the sport.

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Old
11-27-2012, 04:15 PM
  #687
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Originally Posted by Riche16 View Post
Sorry Brad...

The players making 57% (for how many years now?) is the biggest crock.

NFL Players don't...
MLB players don't...
NBA players don't...

wake up!
Yeah dude you're falling for NHL double-speak here

Edit:actually misread your post, but really going from offering 43 to 50 and calling it a concession is dishonest at best


Last edited by Levitate: 11-27-2012 at 04:31 PM.
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Old
11-27-2012, 04:29 PM
  #688
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I wonder if Richards' new line of shirts is made by union workers in US/CAN factories.

Ha.

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Old
11-27-2012, 04:32 PM
  #689
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Also in nowhere is it written that the two sides must trade equal concessions for concessions.

The NHL's labor structure is not set in a vacuum. It is "priced" off of the models employed by the larger North American sports. Similar to how the best players in free agency set the prices for everyone else.

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11-27-2012, 05:17 PM
  #690
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Back in the mid eighties I owned a small business with 2 employees. It was not my main business but a sideline. After two years of just about breaking even I approached the employees and indicted that I needed to cut their pay or I was closing the business. I heard from one of the wives how it wasn't fair that "I was making such a huge profit" for the past number of years and now that business was a bit slower I was taking it out on the employees. I simply could no longer justify taking the risks for what resulted in no return. I probably should have closed the business but I was willing to go along, hoping for a turnaround, until it started costing serious money. The employees reluctantly agreed to the pay cut and happily we went on a decent run for the next decade.

Yes, the employees made all the concessions and in truth the only concession I made was keeping the business open.

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Old
11-27-2012, 06:50 PM
  #691
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Originally Posted by ltrangerfan View Post
Back in the mid eighties I owned a small business with 2 employees. It was not my main business but a sideline. After two years of just about breaking even I approached the employees and indicted that I needed to cut their pay or I was closing the business. I heard from one of the wives how it wasn't fair that "I was making such a huge profit" for the past number of years and now that business was a bit slower I was taking it out on the employees. I simply could no longer justify taking the risks for what resulted in no return. I probably should have closed the business but I was willing to go along, hoping for a turnaround, until it started costing serious money. The employees reluctantly agreed to the pay cut and happily we went on a decent run for the next decade.

Yes, the employees made all the concessions and in truth the only concession I made was keeping the business open.
Would you have replaced them first, or just skip to shutting down if they refused the cut?

This is where these comparisons fail. The players are world class talent, with no viable replacements at that level.

And in the previous post... the other leagues set the market. Ok, true. They also negotiated and made concessions. This will be solved once the NHL compromises.

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Old
11-27-2012, 06:57 PM
  #692
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Would you have replaced them first, or just skip to shutting down if they refused the cut?

This is where these comparisons fail. The players are world class talent, with no viable replacements at that level.

And in the previous post... the other leagues set the market. Ok, true. They also negotiated and made concessions. This will be solved once the NHL compromises.
I would have closed. There was no return to speak of.

If the cost of the employees was too high (and if they were world class employees it didn't matter) I couldn't turn a profit.

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Old
11-27-2012, 07:22 PM
  #693
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Originally Posted by ltrangerfan View Post
Back in the mid eighties I owned a small business with 2 employees. It was not my main business but a sideline. After two years of just about breaking even I approached the employees and indicted that I needed to cut their pay or I was closing the business. I heard from one of the wives how it wasn't fair that "I was making such a huge profit" for the past number of years and now that business was a bit slower I was taking it out on the employees. I simply could no longer justify taking the risks for what resulted in no return. I probably should have closed the business but I was willing to go along, hoping for a turnaround, until it started costing serious money. The employees reluctantly agreed to the pay cut and happily we went on a decent run for the next decade.

Yes, the employees made all the concessions and in truth the only concession I made was keeping the business open.
And what's wrong with that?

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Old
11-27-2012, 07:30 PM
  #694
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Pretty much irrelevant to the NHL labor discussion

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Old
11-27-2012, 07:32 PM
  #695
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Pretty much irrelevant to the NHL labor discussion
The ability, or lack thereof, to turn a profit is a relevant discussion in any business - no matter how big or small.

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Old
11-27-2012, 08:45 PM
  #696
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So, nothing about the conference call I guess?

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11-27-2012, 08:55 PM
  #697
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So, nothing about the conference call I guess?
I haven't found details of anything yet either, last I heard that call was to take place at 4pm. No word yet to my knowledge.

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Old
11-27-2012, 09:10 PM
  #698
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Hopefully they can settle earlier and play more games...

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John Buccigross ‏@Buccigross
NHL player told me NHL team front office person told him, 48 game schedule beginning in Jan. is already outlined

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Old
11-27-2012, 09:15 PM
  #699
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48 games is pretty bad but that's the reality of where we are in bargaining right now sadly.

And as bad as it is I still would consider myself/us lucky to get that at this point. Not to be a debbie downer.

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Old
11-27-2012, 09:18 PM
  #700
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John Bucigross is a hag when it comes to NHL rumors. But at this point I'd be more surprised if the NHL didn't have several different game schedules already drawn up. They probably had a 70, 62, 50, etc.

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