HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Gary Bettman and Donald Fehr; What happens next to them?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-27-2012, 01:42 AM
  #76
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
Well that's a damning article.
Holy crap.
But there's not a single quote -- even anonymous, in there.


Still, it's good to see Bettman taken out the woodshed.

RedWingsNow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2012, 02:49 AM
  #77
RipsADrive
Maybe next year?
 
RipsADrive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,610
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
A whole lot of claims in that article and not one bit of support for any of them.

Just a soapbox rant from a opinionated writer with little relevance in the hockey world. Not sure why this one was worth even reading.

RipsADrive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2012, 07:17 AM
  #78
Shrimper
Trick or ruddy treat
 
Shrimper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Essex
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 67,855
vCash: 50
That's such a pro-Pa article it's not worth reading.

Shrimper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2012, 09:50 AM
  #79
Buck Aki Berg
My pockets hurt
 
Buck Aki Berg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ottawa, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,763
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by edog37 View Post
in some cases, losing games isn't that big a deal. Bettman will be let go (retire) when the owners state he is no longer effective at his primary task....making them money. Fact is, franchise values have never been higher & league revenues have never been higher. That is why Bettman is in no danger of losing his job.
I don't disagree - there will always be some collateral damage when it comes to labour negotiations. But I'm looking at this the same way a GM might look at his coaching situation. It may not be explicitly the coach's fault that a team isn't winning, but that doesn't stop his head from rolling when things get bleak.

Buck Aki Berg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2012, 10:08 AM
  #80
Noldo
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 982
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepty View Post
Do you really think the owners don't realize how much Bettman has taken the flak for them? It has been convenient for everyone . The players don't have the guts to attack their actual owners(to quote Don Cherry) and the venom is all released against Bettman.

I would be sorry to see him leave because he has fought for the small and medium market teams in my opinio and he has had to negotiate with an aggressive and dysfunctional PA filled with hardliners of the Fehr/ Goodenow ilk.
I think that Bettman has done excellent work, fought many fights fow the owners (succesfully) and most, perhaps even all, members of the BOG also realise this. Thus I find it very unlikely that Bettman would be ousted or firedd. Perhaps it is the mediator in me, but I could still see that the BOG could come to conclusion that for the future a different type of commissioner is needed and arrange with Bettman that he will step aside at some point before the next round of labour negotiations - and move to history as one of the most succesfull commissioners in NA sports, unless his negotiation team royally screws up this round (so far they have done well). My guess is that Bettman still takes care of renewal of Canadian TV negotiations in 2014 and steps aside thereafter giving his successor few years to prepare the next labour talks (2018?) and renewal of US media contracts in 2022.

Noldo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2012, 10:17 AM
  #81
moosehead81
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Great White North
Country: Canada
Posts: 838
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RipsADrive View Post
A whole lot of claims in that article and not one bit of support for any of them.

Just a soapbox rant from a opinionated writer with little relevance in the hockey world. Not sure why this one was worth even reading.
Beg to disagree. Story pretty well follows the trend reported over the past few weeks- Bettman promised the owners the world with the lockout, he and a few (8) owners are leading the exercise and things right now are at such a stalemate that the season may be lost. Yeah the journalist adds his opinion, but don't they all?

moosehead81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2012, 10:30 AM
  #82
moosehead81
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Great White North
Country: Canada
Posts: 838
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noldo View Post
I think that Bettman has done excellent work, fought many fights fow the owners (succesfully) and most, perhaps even all, members of the BOG also realise this. Thus I find it very unlikely that Bettman would be ousted or firedd. Perhaps it is the mediator in me, but I could still see that the BOG could come to conclusion that for the future a different type of commissioner is needed and arrange with Bettman that he will step aside at some point before the next round of labour negotiations - and move to history as one of the most succesfull commissioners in NA sports, unless his negotiation team royally screws up this round (so far they have done well). My guess is that Bettman still takes care of renewal of Canadian TV negotiations in 2014 and steps aside thereafter giving his successor few years to prepare the next labour talks (2018?) and renewal of US media contracts in 2022.
"One of the most successful commissioners in NA sports"- really? Even the most anti NHLPA writers on this board would likely disagree with that phrase. Notwithstanding the truculance of the PA, this commissioner has led 3 lockouts costing the league probably more than $4 billion in revenue. If that's success, I'd hate to see failure.

moosehead81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2012, 10:44 AM
  #83
Crease
Registered User
 
Crease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,817
vCash: 500
For all the revenue growth Bettman has helped generate, 10% of games under his 20 year watch have been cancelled. Absolutely awful.

Crease is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2012, 11:22 AM
  #84
Dojji*
Fight the Hate
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 16,821
vCash: 500
And your evidence that this would not have happened under another commissioner is....

You could just as easily say that it's the PA that's gone round the bend. The CBA is a two party deal, and neither one of those parties shares excessive credit or blame when there's a tough fight in the negotiations.

And even with the lockouts, the league is still WAAAAY better off than it was pre-Bettman, so bear that in mind.

Dojji* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2012, 11:24 AM
  #85
Noldo
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 982
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by moosehead81 View Post
"One of the most successful commissioners in NA sports"- really? Even the most anti NHLPA writers on this board would likely disagree with that phrase. Notwithstanding the truculance of the PA, this commissioner has led 3 lockouts costing the league probably more than $4 billion in revenue. If that's success, I'd hate to see failure.
Arguing that the last lockout is really an awful black mark in Bettman's resume pretty much requires an assumption that the League would have been better of during the last 7 years without cap, because an agreement with cap was not really available until the season was lost.

This time is vastly different and if Bettman manages to lose an entire season this time, it will be a true black mark in his legacy. But if he ends able able to get good deal for the owners without losing the entire season, he will be among the best. Hated, but accomplished.

Noldo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2012, 11:26 AM
  #86
Crease
Registered User
 
Crease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,817
vCash: 500
I have absolutely no proof that the lockouts are all on Bettman. I'm not even trying to suggest it. But the NHLPA's leadership has changed several times in the past 20 years. The common denominator has been Bettman. If he can't develop a working relationship with his player's union, then try to find someone who can. Because if nothing else, the Commissioner's job is to ensure that the games that are scheduled are played.

Crease is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2012, 11:38 AM
  #87
ZZamboni
Puttin' on the Foil
 
ZZamboni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Buffalo, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 10,175
vCash: 500
I'm not anti Bettman/Owners. I'm not anti Fehr/Players ....

Because Gary Bettman apparently proposed a two week moratorium on negotiations because of whatever dumb reasons he could come up with and apparently based entirely on hearsay everyone even remotely sympathetic to the players in this labor strife once again took the opportunity to climb their nearest mountaintop and proclaim the man deeply and truly inept, irresponsible, and worst of all, Bad For The Game. But the truth of Bettman's role in this lockout, and in the League as a whole, is far more complicated than his being the guy who brought fans three lockouts in 18 years. The simple fact is that when he's actually doing the day to day business of running the League, and not locking out the players at the slightest provocation, Bettman might be the best commissioner in sports.


The League's hockey-related revenues expanded 50 percent to $3.3 billion in the seven years since Bettman notoriously dashed an entire season in an effort to break the players' union.

Despite all the claims that no one would come back, and despite the fact that ticket prices didn't actually go down as promised, far more people get out to NHL games and show they care about the product by spending money on it than they did before.

In terms of television ratings, (relatively speaking) no one watches hockey, and yet Bettman just worked NBC Sports Network to the tune of $2 billion over the next 10 years, having already essentially forced it to go from The Hunting and Fishing Channel to The Hockey and Also Some Other Stuff Channel.

The Winter Classic, for one, is the most-watched hockey game of the year, a huge event that this league could never have pulled off prior to the last lockout. It makes the league an absolutely insane amount of money, and Bettman deserves partial credit alongside John Collins who was the guy who had the vision on this, but Bettman at least listened to him.

The decision to let Atlanta move to Winnipeg when it needed to do so was one he likely could have forestalled, but didn't. He got out of the way despite making seemingly every other southern team a rock on which to die, and that certainly worked to the league's benefit last season as well.

He's very obviously not a bad commissioner or a bad steward for the sport, or an idiot. He's a good commissioner, a good promoter and even grower of the game, and a very smart man. What he isn't is in any way likable and seems to lack basic interpersonal skills that could serve to make him a tolerable person to which one could listen to.

He's not perfect. To err is human. But blind sheep like hate invalidates you as knowledgeable.

So keep on hating on Bettman because all your internet buddies and clueless bloggers hate him.

ZZamboni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2012, 12:07 PM
  #88
Jussi
I am siege face
 
Jussi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Finland
Posts: 42,605
vCash: 612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crease View Post
I have absolutely no proof that the lockouts are all on Bettman. I'm not even trying to suggest it. But the NHLPA's leadership has changed several times in the past 20 years. The common denominator has been Bettman. If he can't develop a working relationship with his player's union, then try to find someone who can. Because if nothing else, the Commissioner's job is to ensure that the games that are scheduled are played.
Or how about the PA find someone who can develop a working relationship with Bettman. I don't know, someone like Paul Kelly? Oh, wait...

Jussi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2012, 12:09 PM
  #89
Crease
Registered User
 
Crease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,817
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Or how about the PA find someone who can develop a working relationship with Bettman. I don't know, someone like Paul Kelly? Oh, wait...
I could say that the NHLPA replaced Kelly because they felt he was going to get pushed over by Bettman's bully tactics.

We could do this for hours Jussi. Neither one of us can prove our claims. Let's just agree to disagree.

Crease is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2012, 12:13 PM
  #90
Reign Nateo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,416
vCash: 500
Really hope Bettman is done after all of this. He won't be able to show his face at another NHL event involving fans anyway. And that would make the NHL look even more Mickey Mouse than it already is. What a joke this league has become. If the head of the league can't present anything or even be present at events with fans, what is the point of having him there? He needs to go.

Reign Nateo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2012, 12:22 PM
  #91
moosehead81
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Great White North
Country: Canada
Posts: 838
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reign Nateo View Post
Really hope Bettman is done after all of this. He won't be able to show his face at another NHL event involving fans anyway. And that would make the NHL look even more Mickey Mouse than it already is. What a joke this league has become. If the head of the league can't present anything or even be present at events with fans, what is the point of having him there? He needs to go.
Pretty fundamental but likely accurate.

moosehead81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2012, 12:25 PM
  #92
GoneFullHextall
adios Holmgren
 
GoneFullHextall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somewhere in NH
Country: United States
Posts: 30,707
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
That's such a pro-Pa article it's not worth reading.
Its no worse then the pro-owner articles out there.

GoneFullHextall is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2012, 12:28 PM
  #93
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
 
KINGS17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 15,533
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crease View Post
I have absolutely no proof that the lockouts are all on Bettman. I'm not even trying to suggest it. But the NHLPA's leadership has changed several times in the past 20 years. The common denominator has been Bettman. If he can't develop a working relationship with his player's union, then try to find someone who can. Because if nothing else, the Commissioner's job is to ensure that the games that are scheduled are played.
Bettman was developing a working relationship with the head of the NHLPA. The hardline players had that guy fired.

Bettman tried to start negotiations with Fehr almost a year before the CBA expired and Fehr refused.

How is that Bettman's fault?

KINGS17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2012, 12:35 PM
  #94
Crease
Registered User
 
Crease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,817
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Bettman was developing a working relationship with the head of the NHLPA. The hardline players had that guy fired.

Bettman tried to start negotiations with Fehr almost a year before the CBA expired and Fehr refused.

How is that Bettman's fault?
I'm not saying this mitigated disaster is all Bettman's fault. But he's commissioner of a sports league that can't keep its product on the field. Give someone else a shot, no?

Crease is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2012, 12:43 PM
  #95
Freudian
Patty likes beef
 
Freudian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Sweden
Posts: 28,728
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crease View Post
I'm not saying this mitigated disaster is all Bettman's fault. But he's commissioner of a sports league that can't keep its product on the field. Give someone else a shot, no?
It's a two way street. We don't know if Bettman would be willing to compromise more since NHLPA always come into these negotiations looking for a fight. It's a very lazy argument to assume Bettman wants a lockout since he's always put in a position where a lockout is a no brainer.

Freudian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2012, 12:50 PM
  #96
Crease
Registered User
 
Crease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,817
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
It's a two way street. We don't know if Bettman would be willing to compromise more since NHLPA always come into these negotiations looking for a fight. It's a very lazy argument to assume Bettman wants a lockout since he's always put in a position where a lockout is a no brainer.
To be the first North American sports league to lose an entire season to a labor dispute and then 8 years later be back in a situation where a lockout is a no-brainer move is a serious red flag to me.

The premise to one argument is that Bettman inherited and has to deal with the most unruly players association of any of the major sports over the past 20 years.

The premise to the other argument is that he's just not good at minimizing damages and goodwill and making sure the games are played.

If you read player quotes from the NBA and NFL lockouts, it's eery how similar they sound to the NHLPA soundbytes. Criticize Stern, Selig, and Goodell all you want but they have managed through god or good grace to get their seasons played out.


Last edited by Crease: 11-27-2012 at 12:58 PM.
Crease is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2012, 01:03 PM
  #97
Freudian
Patty likes beef
 
Freudian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Sweden
Posts: 28,728
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crease View Post
To be the first North American sports league to lose an entire season to a labor dispute and then 8 years later be back in a situation where a lockout is a no-brainer move is a serious red flag to me.

The premise to one argument is that Bettman inherited and has to deal with the most unruly players association of any of the major sports over the past 20 years.

The premise to the other argument is that he's just not good at minimizing damages and goodwill and making sure the games are played.

If you read player quotes from the NBA and NFL lockouts, it's eery how similar they sound to the NHLPA soundbytes. Criticize Stern, Selig, and Goodell all you want but they have managed through god or good grace to get their seasons played out.
So what was he supposed to do? Accept Fehr's August proposal? That was the only way to avoid a lockout. Fehr did zero negotiating until last week. Gave up zilch.

Freudian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2012, 01:07 PM
  #98
Crease
Registered User
 
Crease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,817
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
So what was he supposed to do? Accept Fehr's August proposal? That was the only way to avoid a lockout. Fehr did zero negotiating until last week. Gave up zilch.
If the NHL was so offended and frustrated with the NHLPA's first proposal maybe they need to consider how their own first attempt came off to the NHLPA. The NHL's scorched earth proposal that kicked off things in August did absolutely nothing to get negotiations moving in the right direction. But but but Fehr didn't want to negotiate during the season. So, I don't know, maybe take the high road or something?

Freudian, I am NOT pro-NHLPA, btw.

Crease is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2012, 01:17 PM
  #99
Freudian
Patty likes beef
 
Freudian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Sweden
Posts: 28,728
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crease View Post
If the NHL was so offended and frustrated with the NHLPA's first proposal maybe they need to consider how their own first attempt came off to the NHLPA. The NHL's scorched earth proposal that kicked off things in August did absolutely nothing to get negotiations moving in the right direction. But but but Fehr didn't want to negotiate during the season. So, I don't know, maybe take the high road or something?

Freudian, I am NOT pro-NHLPA, btw.
Fehr has been in negotiations for over 30 years. He knows very well that NHLs opening proposal was meant as a starting point for negotiations. He chose to make it into an inflammatory thing. He choose to suggest it was an insult to get the players motivated for conflict.

Fehr wanted to 'negotiate' during the season to a) have the players make 57% of revenue and b) have the option to strike. Neither of which is acceptable to the league. It's all rhetoric. "We wanted to play". "It's the owners lockout".

Conflict was inevitable here. Fehr wanted it. He steered this ship towards lockout as much as Bettman did.

Freudian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-27-2012, 01:26 PM
  #100
Crease
Registered User
 
Crease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,817
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Fehr has been in negotiations for over 30 years. He knows very well that NHLs opening proposal was meant as a starting point for negotiations. He chose to make it into an inflammatory thing. He choose to suggest it was an insult to get the players motivated for conflict.

Fehr wanted to 'negotiate' during the season to a) have the players make 57% of revenue and b) have the option to strike. Neither of which is acceptable to the league. It's all rhetoric. "We wanted to play". "It's the owners lockout".

Conflict was inevitable here. Fehr wanted it. He steered this ship towards lockout as much as Bettman did.
Freudian, I don't dispute a single thing you say here. Fehr wanted conflict and he got it. My beef is this: It's Bettman's league, not Fehr's. And Bettman seems keen on using lockouts for conflict resolution. Shoddy conflict resolution skills in my humble opinion. Why can other league's wade through turbulant waters without losing 10% of it's games in the past 20 years? Bad luck for Bettman? I'm sorry, but I'm not buying it. I think we can agree to disagree and move on. Everyone else is probably sick of reading our argument anyway.

Crease is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:33 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.