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Old
11-26-2012, 12:44 AM
  #101
bleedblue1223
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Originally Posted by I3ig13ig View Post
I look at his production beyond goals and assists. He was terrible defensively and too often tried to dance around entire opposing teams rather than utilize his teammates. Becuase of that, his point totals don't tell the whole story here. It really showed when he played at the NHL level cause his fancy plays that worked in the AHL sometimes had him get burned almost every time in the NHL.
Exactly. The AHL is more than a couple steps below the NHL. The quality of the AHL vs Europe is completely irrelevant to what I was saying. Using Eberle's stats in the AHL in any argument is just dumb.

I'd still put the KHL and SEL above the AHL, but again that's not the point.


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11-26-2012, 12:51 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Exactly. The AHL is more than a couple steps below the NHL. The quality of the AHL vs Europe is completely irrelevant to what I was saying. Using Eberle's stats in the AHL in any argument is just dumb.
To be fair, Eberle has already proven to be more than capable of deaking and scoring goals at the NHL level. He has done that at every level of play actually.

But I agree with the basic concept. You can't base NHL'ers value off his AHL stats.

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11-26-2012, 04:01 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Zoidberg Jesus View Post
The KHL and SEL are easily better.
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Originally Posted by Zoidberg Jesus View Post
Common knowledge. They were better pre-lockout, now they've added significant NHLers while the AHL has added rookies and prospects.
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How is anything in what you said relevant to what I posted?
My bad, I guess my "beef" was with Zoidberg and I mistakenly thought that you posted the above. The bottom line is that this year's AHL is not your normal AHL league and it deserves more due than what you are giving it. And it is also the closest thing that there is to NHL hockey because the other players are playing on larger ice surfaces which means that it's a lot different game.

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11-26-2012, 04:04 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Exactly. The AHL is more than a couple steps below the NHL. The quality of the AHL vs Europe is completely irrelevant to what I was saying. Using Eberle's stats in the AHL in any argument is just dumb.

I'd still put the KHL and SEL above the AHL, but again that's not the point.
And there it is LOL! I guess I should've read the last page first before my last reply. So why is the SEL better exactly? Bigger ice, less physical, they were at least at one point trying to keep out NHLers this lockout. The AHL is full of hungry players that are trying to show that they can play with NHLers. The KHL may have more talent but again the ice is HUGE and it's a different game.

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11-26-2012, 04:31 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
And there it is LOL! I guess I should've read the last page first before my last reply. So why is the SEL better exactly? Bigger ice, less physical, they were at least at one point trying to keep out NHLers this lockout. The AHL is full of hungry players that are trying to show that they can play with NHLers. The KHL may have more talent but again the ice is HUGE and it's a different game.
How many x-AHLers are playing in the KHL and SEL or how many x-NHLers who's career is up, end up playing in the KHL. It's a good debate, but I still think the AHL is the better league.

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11-26-2012, 09:31 AM
  #106
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and what do you base your opinion on?
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Originally Posted by Zoidberg Jesus View Post
Common knowledge. They were better pre-lockout, now they've added significant NHLers while the AHL has added rookies and prospects.
the AHL has added some pretty "significant" NHLers as well....check who is among the league leaders in scoring! as far as "common knowledge" goes, for everyone who says the Euro leagues and KHL have a better game than the AHL, there are just as many of us who feel the opposite.

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11-26-2012, 10:00 AM
  #107
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Eberle AND Petry in any deal better damn well return a surefire superstar otherwise, it's ridiculous for the Oilers to consider any deal with those two involved. Carlson, Shattenkirk and Berglund are nice players but really not the type of players that the Oilers should be getting in return for Eberle and Petry.

What is getting lost in all of this is that Petry is not just some throw in, his development accelerated exponentially last season and i don't see any reason why he would just start regressing now. He will likely top out as a high end 2nd pairing defenseman but i wouldn't be shocked if he ended up as a top pairing guy at some point. I would rather watch him continue to grow and improve as an Oiler.
Oh and that Eberle guy can play a little despite the silly assumption that he will regress due to an unsustainable shooting percentage, watch the player play people and stop looking at stupid stats to make a judgment on the player.

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11-26-2012, 10:12 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
And there it is LOL! I guess I should've read the last page first before my last reply. So why is the SEL better exactly? Bigger ice, less physical, they were at least at one point trying to keep out NHLers this lockout. The AHL is full of hungry players that are trying to show that they can play with NHLers. The KHL may have more talent but again the ice is HUGE and it's a different game.
The best league isn't what league is most similar to the NHL, it's the league with the best competition. The AHL added prospects and some young, and in some cases very good NHL talent. The Euro leagues added NHL veterans and NHL stars. None of the leagues on the planet are close to the level of the NHL, so none of the stats really matter all that much.

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11-26-2012, 03:06 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
Eberle AND Petry in any deal better damn well return a surefire superstar otherwise, it's ridiculous for the Oilers to consider any deal with those two involved. Carlson, Shattenkirk and Berglund are nice players but really not the type of players that the Oilers should be getting in return for Eberle and Petry.

What is getting lost in all of this is that Petry is not just some throw in, his development accelerated exponentially last season and i don't see any reason why he would just start regressing now. He will likely top out as a high end 2nd pairing defenseman but i wouldn't be shocked if he ended up as a top pairing guy at some point. I would rather watch him continue to grow and improve as an Oiler.
Oh and that Eberle guy can play a little despite the silly assumption that he will regress due to an unsustainable shooting percentage, watch the player play people and stop looking at stupid stats to make a judgment on the player.
I understand where you are coming from about Eberle. But Shattenkirk is better than Petry.

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11-26-2012, 03:13 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by BleedBlue247 View Post
I understand where you are coming from about Eberle. But Shattenkirk is better than Petry.
Whether he's better or not, they're close enough that there's no way you're getting Eberle

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11-26-2012, 04:01 PM
  #111
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I understand where you are coming from about Eberle. But Shattenkirk is better than Petry.
Yes he is but the difference between Eberle and Berglund is far greater than the difference between Shattenkirk and Petry IMO.

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11-26-2012, 04:05 PM
  #112
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Be honest. How much have you seen petry play?
Does it matter? I'm not the one comparing d-men by looking at points here.

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11-26-2012, 05:13 PM
  #113
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Berglund is getting severely underrated in this thread. His defensive game really improved under Hitch. 6'4 220 lb 2 way centers who are 20 goal scorers are hard to find. I think 25g / 25a will be his norm for many years. He is turning into a force on the ice too.

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Old
11-26-2012, 06:09 PM
  #114
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Jeff Petry, 24, comes out of nowhere, could now become a top pairing dman!

Kevin Shattenkirk, 23, already a 2nd pairing dman, perhaps a 1st pairing (stuck behind some guy named Pietrangelo; I think the Blues arrange their pairings based on letters in last name?) is done progressing, even though at this age last year, Jeff Petry burst onto the stage.

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11-26-2012, 06:31 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
Whether he's better or not, they're close enough that there's no way you're getting Eberle
When did I every say the Blues were going to? I didn't. Eberle had a fantastic year last year. Nobody can deny that. But let's let him prove he can do it again before we annoint him a superstar shall we? Everybody's getting all ******** over a legitimate concern. History says repeating his shooting percentage from last year is extremely difficult to do. I'm not saying he can or can't. I actually happen to be in the camp that thinks he will have similar success, just at a lower shooting percentage (but taking more shots) But the fact is, until the NHL starts back up nobody knows. So the sustainability of his shooting percentage is going to be in question until that time.

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11-27-2012, 08:11 AM
  #116
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who is not that much better than Petry, 7 more points in 9 more games played last year, playing only 30 seconds more a game and having a plus/minus rating of 8 goals worse as well. If Carlson is a first pairing dman, then Petry is one too. IMO, they are both 2nd pairing dmen at this point, with potential.
What? you haven't seen carlson play, comparing him to petry and saying they're equal is an insult to carlson...

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11-27-2012, 02:55 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by bluesfan94 View Post
Jeff Petry, 24, comes out of nowhere, could now become a top pairing dman!

Kevin Shattenkirk, 23, already a 2nd pairing dman, perhaps a 1st pairing (stuck behind some guy named Pietrangelo; I think the Blues arrange their pairings based on letters in last name?) is done progressing, even though at this age last year, Jeff Petry burst onto the stage.
Jeff Petry didn't come out of nowhere. It's hilarious how if Detroit let's their prospects take their time it's a great thing and people say we ruin all of ours by rushing them. Then, we get someone who was allowed to take their time, and apparently its also a bad thing

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11-27-2012, 09:18 PM
  #118
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Jeff Petry didn't come out of nowhere. It's hilarious how if Detroit let's their prospects take their time it's a great thing and people say we ruin all of ours by rushing them. Then, we get someone who was allowed to take their time, and apparently its also a bad thing
I'm sorry. He was a second round pick in 2006. Let's not pretend that making his debut two years ago is something to be impressed by. Detroit has the luxury to take it slow because they have damn good depth in the NHL. Edmonton didn't really have that. Either way, that's not the point of that post.

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11-27-2012, 10:13 PM
  #119
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I'm sorry. He was a second round pick in 2006. Let's not pretend that making his debut two years ago is something to be impressed by. Detroit has the luxury to take it slow because they have damn good depth in the NHL. Edmonton didn't really have that. Either way, that's not the point of that post.
Everyone should know defenceman can take longer to develop, only six defence positions on a roster minus goaltending. Edmonton had no need to rush Jeff Petry is what management thought and take note folks, this is one of those diamond in the rough cases. Dynasty . . . Dynasty.

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11-27-2012, 10:51 PM
  #120
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2nd in the AHL in scoring means nothing? What about 15th in the NHL in scoring? Eberle gets no respect on these boards, but it doesn't matter, because he isn't going anywhere any time soon.

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11-27-2012, 11:25 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
My bad, I guess my "beef" was with Zoidberg and I mistakenly thought that you posted the above. The bottom line is that this year's AHL is not your normal AHL league and it deserves more due than what you are giving it. And it is also the closest thing that there is to NHL hockey because the other players are playing on larger ice surfaces which means that it's a lot different game.
I think the difference in the AHL is being exaggerated some. It might not be your normal AHL, but it really isn't all that far off. The Barons are clearly the exception to this, with some of their players making it under the wire for waiver eligibility, but league-wide the difference between last season's AHL team and this season's is not all that great. A player here or there, who would probably be in the NHL, but the average team isn't that much better.

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11-27-2012, 11:34 PM
  #122
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I think the difference in the AHL is being exaggerated some. It might not be your normal AHL, but it really isn't all that far off. The Barons are clearly the exception to this, with some of their players making it under the wire for waiver eligibility, but league-wide the difference between last season's AHL team and this season's is not all that great. A player here or there, who would probably be in the NHL, but the average team isn't that much better.
Thanks for clearing that up. There are probably 75 to 100 players minimum playing the AHL that would playing in the NHL right now. OKC has 4 to 7. That's 25 to 35% of a team, Yeah, you're right no big difference.

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11-27-2012, 11:55 PM
  #123
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Thanks for clearing that up. There are probably 75 to 100 players minimum playing the AHL that would playing in the NHL right now. OKC has 4 to 7. That's 25 to 35% of a team, Yeah, you're right no big difference.
Interesting...

"The Barons are an exception..."

and you respond with...

"Look at the Barons!"

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11-28-2012, 12:17 AM
  #124
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Look at Peoria, the only NHL player on that roster is Cole and maybe Schwartz, but I doubt he would've made the team out of camp. And Cole has been playing with Peoria for the majority of his professional career, so they really didn't add any NHL players.

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11-28-2012, 04:03 AM
  #125
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I think the difference in the AHL is being exaggerated some. It might not be your normal AHL, but it really isn't all that far off. The Barons are clearly the exception to this, with some of their players making it under the wire for waiver eligibility, but league-wide the difference between last season's AHL team and this season's is not all that great. A player here or there, who would probably be in the NHL, but the average team isn't that much better.
Having seen a lot of AHL hockey from the '06-07 season until now I completely disagree. Yes some teams don't have many potential NHLers, but many have a number of potential NHLers on them. The Islanders farm club is another good example of this as is Minnesota's. The game is much faster this year than it was last year. Guys on the Barons that were adequate or better defensively last year are looking like pylons this year. The league is indeed much improved and besides the boost in personnel this is the best chance for guys that are off the radar to make a name for themselves so they are likely busting their tails a little harder as well.

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