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11-26-2012, 10:27 AM
  #751
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Only bottom-6 guy I'm really high on right now is Ferraro. He's got the chance to become a quality 3rd liner. Overall mostly trusted in the defensive situations, but good for a few big goals and offense on the PK. Aubry and Callahan are works in progress(as an NHL energy guy you have to be there every night).


I like to compare those four, because they're basically the same age. Ferraro, Sheahan, Aubry, Callahan is my firm ranking right now.
I agree Ferraro has kind of separated himself a bit this year but he and Sheahan were never really "bottom 6" prospects. Youre comparing 2 first rounders (Ferraros close enough), a third rounder and a 6th rounder.

Ferraro and Sheahan are clearly a step ahead, both look like really good third liners when they hit the NHL.

Aubry and Callahan are similar calibre prospects. I dont know why people are much higher on Aubry though. He is bigger but he really needs to fill out because his size right now is more of a detriment to the NHL then Callahans is. Theyre both similar physically, Callahans the better fighter though and even though hes gottent ime with better linemates and played mroe games Aubry has one more point.

I guess the idea of a 6'4 checking center is awesome and I definitely like Aubry but to me your comparison should be Ferraro and Sheahan are tier one and close, Callahan and Aubry tier 2 and close

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11-26-2012, 12:32 PM
  #752
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I agree Ferraro has kind of separated himself a bit this year but he and Sheahan were never really "bottom 6" prospects. Youre comparing 2 first rounders (Ferraros close enough), a third rounder and a 6th rounder.

Ferraro and Sheahan are clearly a step ahead, both look like really good third liners when they hit the NHL.

Aubry and Callahan are similar calibre prospects. I dont know why people are much higher on Aubry though. He is bigger but he really needs to fill out because his size right now is more of a detriment to the NHL then Callahans is. Theyre both similar physically, Callahans the better fighter though and even though hes gottent ime with better linemates and played mroe games Aubry has one more point.

I guess the idea of a 6'4 checking center is awesome and I definitely like Aubry but to me your comparison should be Ferraro and Sheahan are tier one and close, Callahan and Aubry tier 2 and close
Oh I know, and my gap between Sheahan and Aubry is bigger than between Ferraro and Sheahan, but they're 21 and not 18 anymore so I don't really put much weight into where they were drafted. To expect Sheahan to turn into a top6 forward at this point would be a pipe dream. For Ferraro I think that ship sailed already when he struggled to put up points in junior, but at least he's turning it around now - better late than never. By expecting I don't necessarily mean it will never happen, just making fair projections based on where they stand now.

Anywho, in essence they're all competing for the same spot(s) on Detroit, since you can almost be sure that every one of them will start on the 4th line, at best 3rd line. If Aubry or Callahan can't beat out Ferraro and Sheahan for spots, it's likely that their first NHL gig won't come with Detroit. For the 13/14 season Detroit has 10 forwards signed and that's with Fil, Nyquist, Mursak and Brunner unsigned and with Tatar+Jarnkrok outside the roster. So you can tell there's gonna be a tough battle for spots for any of these guys before the 2014/15 season, at which point their entry-levels are up.

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11-26-2012, 12:50 PM
  #753
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Only bottom-6 guy I'm really high on right now is Ferraro. He's got the chance to become a quality 3rd liner. Overall mostly trusted in the defensive situations, but good for a few big goals and offense on the PK. Aubry and Callahan are works in progress(as an NHL energy guy you have to be there every night).

Sheahan's NHL upside is definite but he needs more pro time before a fair assessment. His line has been good lately but Paré is the offensive catalyst. I'm still waiting for him to be more of a threat around the crease, overall I kinda doubt his offensive instincts at this point. Let's put it this way: I totally see why he wasn't a big scorer in college, but also see why he's projected to produce points. He could be one of those guys that makes a huge jump from one season to another.

I like to compare those four, because they're basically the same age. Ferraro, Sheahan, Aubry, Callahan is my firm ranking right now.
Agree, I have been very impressed with Ferraro this season. Nill compared Callahan to Dan Carcillo which really isn't fair given how early Carcillo was drafted compared to Callahan. I don't see enough Griffins games to have a good feel for Callahan I just see all sorts of caveats being made and with that being the case I have a tough time seeing him make it to the NHL. Especially once Aubry starts to fill out and play that same role. Now let's say Sheahan never develops the offensive touch and gets stuck on a 3rd of 4th line. Both Aubry and Sheahan are centers but those guys seem like much safer NHL players than Callahan and take up a couple bottom 6 roster spots that make the competition more difficult for Callahan. Abby is solid in that role although I could honestly take or leave him at this point, Helmer ain't going nowhere, and Ferraro looks like a solid bottom 6 winger. The Wings always have a plethora of competition for those bottom 6 spots.

If Callahan can somehow draw more penalties than he takes like Kirk Maltby and turn into a good PK'er then he would have a clear role. I don't think being a punching bag and putting his team on the PK and killing momentum is going to get him a ticket out of Grand Rapids.

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11-26-2012, 01:05 PM
  #754
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Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
I don't see enough Griffins games to have a good feel for Callahan I just see all sorts of caveats being made and with that being the case I have a tough time seeing him make it to the NHL. Especially once Aubry starts to fill out and play that same role.

If Callahan can somehow draw more penalties than he takes like Kirk Maltby and turn into a good PK'er then he would have a clear role. I don't think being a punching bag and putting his team on the PK and killing momentum is going to get him a ticket out of Grand Rapids.
See I think thats the problem, some of the guys who dont watch many games think Aubry plays the same game as Callahan. Theyre not even all that close in play style like you would think and Aubry definitely cannot fill that same role. Aubry will finish hits (sometimes big ones) but doesnt have much of a mean streak, he let 5'9 Ryan Ellis deck him from behind and then punch him in the head last game and didnt even give him anything back. Aubrys a strong defensive center that plays a physical brand of hockey and the occasional fight.

Callahan plays an in your face, chirping and shoving after the whistles and loves fighting type of game. If Aubry fills out like he should (I hope he isnt another Drew Miller) he will be the bigger hitter but at this point theyre pretty close, Aubry gets hit hard a lot more because hes so scrawny though. Both are what I would call above average skaters, fairly quick but not on a Helm type level. Both can forecheck really well. But overall their games cannot be more different. Callahan fills a role of a Maltby type that fights more or something like what Tootoo does. Gaustad isnt a bad comparison style wise for Aubry but I dont think he has that same upside.

I dont think these guys are all competing for the same spots really. Aubrys going for the fourth line center spot, same with Sheahan but Sheahan looks to have better upside for a third line. Ferraro is looking to be a third liner and Callahan is looking to make the team as the fourth line energy winger or 13th forward. He fills a role that even if some other player like Emmerton for example may have better hockey skills, you keep Callahan because of the edge he brings

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11-26-2012, 01:19 PM
  #755
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Originally Posted by newfy View Post
I dont think these guys are all competing for the same spots really. Aubrys going for the fourth line center spot, same with Sheahan but Sheahan looks to have better upside for a third line. Ferraro is looking to be a third liner and Callahan is looking to make the team as the fourth line energy winger or 13th forward. He fills a role that even if some other player like Emmerton for example may have better hockey skills, you keep Callahan because of the edge he brings
That's their estimate each on their own yes, but hard to imagine four bottom-six rookies making the team virtually at the same time. On a team that loves to sign veterans for depth, too. Unless two of them are in the pressbox, then it might be possible. There's also Andersson who's ahead of Aubry and Callahan on the depth chart.

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11-26-2012, 07:03 PM
  #756
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Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
That's their estimate each on their own yes, but hard to imagine four bottom-six rookies making the team virtually at the same time. On a team that loves to sign veterans for depth, too. Unless two of them are in the pressbox, then it might be possible. There's also Andersson who's ahead of Aubry and Callahan on the depth chart.
plus Helm has one of those bottom 6 Center spots locked up for the next decade anyways

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11-26-2012, 07:45 PM
  #757
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Did the PP all of a sudden die? I thought the Griff's had a stud power play... Hmmm....

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11-26-2012, 08:44 PM
  #758
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Originally Posted by ricky0034 View Post
plus Helm has one of those bottom 6 Center spots locked up for the next decade anyways
That's a very good point, because no matter what people think Helm will never have the hands to be a top 6 center.

In the Wings system the center has a lot of responsibility, that's why Fil had a much better year, points wise, on the wing this year.

The more I think about it I'd say Helm and Sheahan will have the 3rd and 4th line center jobs. I wonder if Aubry has ever played wing and if he is good there. I would love to see Ferraro on Helm's wing, they would scare dmen on a nightly basis.

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11-26-2012, 09:07 PM
  #759
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Will chad billins ever make the big club? hes pretty young and has had a great start to the season

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11-26-2012, 09:27 PM
  #760
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Originally Posted by JimLaheyprobert View Post
Will chad billins ever make the big club? hes pretty young and has had a great start to the season
I don't know that he will make our big club, I am fairly confident having seen him play that he will make the NHL though. Billins is not signed to a NHL deal, I wonder if he will be a commodity coming out of the lockout, surely some teams that are weak of puckmovers on the backend will be interested in locking him down.

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11-26-2012, 09:29 PM
  #761
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Did the PP all of a sudden die? I thought the Griff's had a stud power play... Hmmm....
To be honest, they looked pretty sluggish and tired out there yesterday. As a result they made a ton of careless mistakes and they couldn't win any battles for the puck so there PP really suffered.

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11-26-2012, 10:54 PM
  #762
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Originally Posted by newfy View Post
I agree Ferraro has kind of separated himself a bit this year but he and Sheahan were never really "bottom 6" prospects. Youre comparing 2 first rounders (Ferraros close enough), a third rounder and a 6th rounder.

Ferraro and Sheahan are clearly a step ahead, both look like really good third liners when they hit the NHL.

Aubry and Callahan are similar calibre prospects. I dont know why people are much higher on Aubry though. He is bigger but he really needs to fill out because his size right now is more of a detriment to the NHL then Callahans is. Theyre both similar physically, Callahans the better fighter though and even though hes gottent ime with better linemates and played mroe games Aubry has one more point.

I guess the idea of a 6'4 checking center is awesome and I definitely like Aubry but to me your comparison should be Ferraro and Sheahan are tier one and close, Callahan and Aubry tier 2 and close
Who cares where they were drafted a couple years ago? The question is, where are they going to be in 2-3 years?

Where they were drafted doesn't have much to do with whether they are 3rd liners, 4th liners or career AHLers.

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11-26-2012, 10:59 PM
  #763
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Agree, I have been very impressed with Ferraro this season. Nill compared Callahan to Dan Carcillo which really isn't fair given how early Carcillo was drafted compared to Callahan. I don't see enough Griffins games to have a good feel for Callahan I just see all sorts of caveats being made and with that being the case I have a tough time seeing him make it to the NHL. Especially once Aubry starts to fill out and play that same role. Now let's say Sheahan never develops the offensive touch and gets stuck on a 3rd of 4th line. Both Aubry and Sheahan are centers but those guys seem like much safer NHL players than Callahan and take up a couple bottom 6 roster spots that make the competition more difficult for Callahan. Abby is solid in that role although I could honestly take or leave him at this point, Helmer ain't going nowhere, and Ferraro looks like a solid bottom 6 winger. The Wings always have a plethora of competition for those bottom 6 spots.

If Callahan can somehow draw more penalties than he takes like Kirk Maltby and turn into a good PK'er then he would have a clear role. I don't think being a punching bag and putting his team on the PK and killing momentum is going to get him a ticket out of Grand Rapids.
Maltby had speed that was far above average.
He scored 50 goals in junior. He had 22 goals in his only full AHL year and went to the NHL.

These guys are not the same player. I had hope for Callahan, but it's waning. An undersized guy who doesn't have skill and he loses all his fights... Unless he has great speed, what can he do in the NHL?

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11-27-2012, 04:13 AM
  #764
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Originally Posted by JimLaheyprobert View Post
Will chad billins ever make the big club? hes pretty young and has had a great start to the season
-8 as a team worst figure isn't a great start. He is the smallest and weakest left handed puckmovig defenceman there. At next season he doesn't get his PP icetime anymore when Ouellet and Sproul arrives, and quite probable is sent to ECHL.

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11-27-2012, 07:25 AM
  #765
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Did the PP all of a sudden die? I thought the Griff's had a stud power play... Hmmm....
3rd game in 3 nights. I think it was just a bad night for them.

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11-27-2012, 08:49 AM
  #766
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This Griffins current season just shows, how total waste all these years with Curt Fraser were. Blashill is getting better results immediately, with more immatured roster.

We haven't had great prospect production on the latest years, and my finger is pointed straigth to Fraser. Bad development.

Those years with Danton Cole, Greg Ireland and Mike Stothers we just had much better prospect production. Thank god Blashill is bringing those years back.

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11-27-2012, 10:05 AM
  #767
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This Griffins current season just shows, how total waste all these years with Curt Fraser were. Blashill is getting better results immediately, with more immatured roster.

We haven't had great prospect production on the latest years, and my finger is pointed straigth to Fraser. Bad development.

Those years with Danton Cole, Greg Ireland and Mike Stothers we just had much better prospect production. Thank god Blashill is bringing those years back.
It's another good example of how the DRW treat people. Blashill struggled coaching in the NHL so Detroit worked it out where he could get another chance and replace Fraser. Good to see him performing very well in the A. I never understood when people wouldn't expect a bare minimum of making the playoffs when Fraser was here. It's like that was an impossible thing to ask from a coach in GR. Blashill was a very good college coach and it looks like he's a very good AHL coach too. Good for him.

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11-27-2012, 10:08 AM
  #768
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Originally Posted by JimLaheyprobert View Post
Will chad billins ever make the big club? hes pretty young and has had a great start to the season
I'm a big fan. I think he needs to be paired with a very good defensive defenseman. The question is whether Detroit will have the space for him. Right now we are very thin on defense but we have many good prospects. Based on his production I can see him getting a shot in the NHL the question is whether it will be in Detroit.

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11-27-2012, 12:05 PM
  #769
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This Griffins current season just shows, how total waste all these years with Curt Fraser were. Blashill is getting better results immediately, with more immatured roster.

We haven't had great prospect production on the latest years, and my finger is pointed straigth to Fraser. Bad development.

Those years with Danton Cole, Greg Ireland and Mike Stothers we just had much better prospect production. Thank god Blashill is bringing those years back.
I dont think it was Fraser, I think its competent goaltending thats given the team confidence. Nyquist is producing like he did last year, Tatars taken a step forward and so has Ferraro but Andersson hasnt looked as good.

I really think Mrazeks the cause of all this, and its even pushed Mccollum to play a bit better

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11-27-2012, 12:54 PM
  #770
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I dont think it was Fraser, I think its competent goaltending thats given the team confidence. Nyquist is producing like he did last year, Tatars taken a step forward and so has Ferraro but Andersson hasnt looked as good.

I really think Mrazeks the cause of all this, and its even pushed Mccollum to play a bit better
My main point was that propect development. At Fraser-era we didn't get anybody from there. Now the youngsters are playing at key roles and developing. And winning, that's just a plus.

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11-27-2012, 03:33 PM
  #771
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I dont think it was Fraser, I think its competent goaltending thats given the team confidence. Nyquist is producing like he did last year, Tatars taken a step forward and so has Ferraro but Andersson hasnt looked as good.

I really think Mrazeks the cause of all this, and its even pushed Mccollum to play a bit better
That's a really good point, the team was playing at about Fraser-level when McCollum and Pearce were the netminders. Things have improved dramatically since Mrazek was brought up and he seized the starting goalie spot. Good to see Tommy up his game without any pressure on his shoulders.

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11-27-2012, 03:55 PM
  #772
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My main point was that propect development. At Fraser-era we didn't get anybody from there. Now the youngsters are playing at key roles and developing. And winning, that's just a plus.
a lot of it is just plain having better prospects

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11-27-2012, 04:02 PM
  #773
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a lot of it is just plain having better prospects
Partially talent, partially their development. We really don't that talent-level know for sure. We know that different people developed different players, and different coaches got that talent out from different players and Fraser didn't. But for example, Landon Ferraro didn't get anywhere under Fraser, now he is doing great with Blashill. Emmerton, Mursak and Kindl are pure Fraser-products.

But only what is sure, Fraser sucked with young players at Atlanta and did same with Detroit prospects.

That's his CV. I'm very happy with Blashill there.

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11-27-2012, 04:26 PM
  #774
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Fraser had Joey MacDonald somebody some people around here were content to let be the backup goalie. He just wasn't a very good coach, Blashill has been a good head coach at every level he has been given the job at. It wasn't his fault the assistant gig didn't work out in Detroit, sounds the vets didn't listen from a lot of the reports. It worries me because he has the PP huming down in GR, seems listening to him might have been a good idea.

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11-27-2012, 04:38 PM
  #775
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The PK has improved tremendously since the start of the season. Sure Mrazek has helped a ton but Blashill has done well fixing it.

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