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Old
11-27-2012, 05:01 PM
  #26
StrongIslanders90
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Originally Posted by YotesFan47 View Post
Hahaha yea that's usually the way these proposals go and I didn't help in adding fuel to that fire.

In all seriousness though, the OP was a pretty close deal. If it were myself in GMDM seat then I could see myself pulling the trigger on Bailey +2013 4th for Klesla because I feel like we have a playoff team but not a cup winning team. Our surplus is defense and we need to add a few hairs on the front end, people who can grow with the franchise and have time to buy into Tipps system. I can't see us winning a cup for 2-3 more years but we have to build that roster up to give us the best possible chance, especially considering the forward prospects we have (some of which are very promising but I don't think any of them have top line upside). Not that Bailey will be a top line player buy I'm perfectly ok with rolling a 1a/1b line, 3rd high energy/checking line, and a 4th PK unit. If Bailey fits into one of the 1a/1b spots than I'm satisfied.

I know rt disagrees with that process along with a few other yotes fans but I would rather double my chances of finding player to keep us winning that rely only on the draft and luck in FA. Every player is movable for the right price because the bottom line is to win the cup.

Yotes are def a good team and dont have many holes. the yotes need a few offensive goal scorers and have LOTS of depth on defense. The OP would work imo, even though it would be tough for me to give up Bailey.


But to be serious if Yandel was in play I think he would be a great fit on te Islanders. I just dont know what the Yotes would want. you guys are a playoff team so I dont think high draft picks would be wanted, but Im sure guys like Grabner,Bailey, and Nielsen would have to interest the Yotes.


The only reason I mention Yandle is because his name has been thrown around a bit. Its hard to feel like you "win" a trade when you give up the best player involved.

If the Yotes were interested in Nielsen and/or Grabner both are young, signed long term, and for a decent cap hit, everything that the Isles want. Which the Isles would have to really really want/like the player they were targeting. Nielsen is one of the most underated fowards in the NHL.


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Old
11-27-2012, 05:01 PM
  #27
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don't care for this scenario. Klesla adds more to this team than what Bailey would bring.

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11-27-2012, 05:17 PM
  #28
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Coyotes don't need anymore prospects. We want NHL players that are ready to get us to the next level.

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11-27-2012, 06:48 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by AP View Post
Coyotes don't need anymore prospects. We want NHL players that are ready to get us to the next level.
Bailey put up more points than Boedker (same age) and Langkow (whose ice time he could replace) on a non-playoff team. He's got 4 NHL seasons under his belt. He's hardly a prospect.

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11-28-2012, 09:49 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by AP View Post
Coyotes don't need anymore prospects. We want NHL players that are ready to get us to the next level.
Yeah, I think that an Isles/Coyotes trade could make sense mid-year, once the Islanders know whether they actually have a logjam at center and the Coyotes know whether they actually have a logjam on D.

If the Islanders have a logjam at center, the player I see being attractive to the Coyotes is not Bailey. Bailey has proven that he's a better wing than a center. I don't really think he fits Phoenix's needs. Frans Nielsen, on the other hand, is the kind of player that if you put him with Boedker and a grinder, that could be a good fit. Better than Lombardi or Connolly at this point.

That said, Nielsen's may be worth 3 or 4 points a year just on shootouts, and is an excellent PKer. He'd cost a good deal more than Bailey.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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11-28-2012, 10:43 AM
  #31
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Odd... a trade that makes sense...

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11-28-2012, 10:43 AM
  #32
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Nielson would be an excellent addition. I'm not sure we would be willing to give up what it would likely cost, though. What would we need to add to Rundblad?

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11-28-2012, 10:50 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
Nielson would be an excellent addition. I'm not sure we would be willing to give up what it would likely cost, though. What would we need to add to Rundblad?
Call me crazy but I'd rather trade Nelson than Nielsen. I'd definitely consider a Nelson-Rundblad swap. I'm pretty sure most Isles fans will be against it, though.

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11-28-2012, 11:15 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
Call me crazy but I'd rather trade Nelson than Nielsen. I'd definitely consider a Nelson-Rundblad swap. I'm pretty sure most Isles fans will be against it, though.
You're crazy

Serious blinkman, have you seen Nelson play? I've only seen him three times, but damn this kid is one special player. He's not a player to give up on without getting a superstar back. I'm not saying Yandle isn't a superstar, but I think Nelson will be a bigger need than Yandle in a few years.

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Nielson would be an excellent addition. I'm not sure we would be willing to give up what it would likely cost, though. What would we need to add to Rundblad?
Depending on how ready Strome and Nelson are for NHL action, Nielsen can't be traded yet. In terms of value, I think Rundblad and Shinnimin would be solid value. A mid round pick can be added with Nielsen to make it more fair.

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11-28-2012, 11:19 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
Call me crazy but I'd rather trade Nelson than Nielsen. I'd definitely consider a Nelson-Rundblad swap. I'm pretty sure most Isles fans will be against it, though.
I won't call you crazy, but I disagree. Rangy centers are really rare. Nielsen isn't that rare. There are always a Craig Conroy, Matt Lombardi, Todd Marchant, Mike Sillinger style responsible playmaking centers around the league.

rt - I don't know if it would cost much more than Rundblad. But, again, this is not a move that would be available until a season is well underway. If there's an injury, or our young forwards don't play to expectations, Nielsen won't be available. Also, we're in no rush to make a deal. It's not like we can afford to play more than one rookie PMD at one time, anyway. We can start out with Donovan.

In other words, what slapshot723 said.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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11-28-2012, 11:20 AM
  #36
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Not interested in trading the proven Nielsen for the unproven Rundblad. If Nielsen is to be moved, it's going to be for a veteran defenseman or he will be part a package for a young, stud defenseman.

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11-28-2012, 11:23 AM
  #37
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In other words, what slapshot723 said.
What? We agree?! WHAT?!


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Old
11-28-2012, 11:34 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by SLAPSHOT723 View Post
You're crazy

Serious blinkman, have you seen Nelson play? I've only seen him three times, but damn this kid is one special player. He's not a player to give up on without getting a superstar back. I'm not saying Yandle isn't a superstar, but I think Nelson will be a bigger need than Yandle in a few years.



Depending on how ready Strome and Nelson are for NHL action, Nielsen can't be traded yet. In terms of value, I think Rundblad and Shinnimin would be solid value. A mid round pick can be added with Nielsen to make it more fair.
I've seen him play and have been extremely impressed. That said I think Strome has the higher ceiling and ultimately will be the better player. I suppose we could phase Nielsen out and replace him with Brock, or move Strome to the wing, but I'd rather take advantage of the trade value he brings if it allows us to address a need.

I think some people underestimate just how badly we need to add another PMD to this team. IMO Visnovsky is gone, whether or not he plays here this season. Streit should remain, leaving him, Hamonic, MacDonald and Carkner as our only established NHL defenseman. The only PMD in that group is Streit, who will be 35 at the start of next season and 36 three months into it.

We do have guys like deHaan, Donovan, Kichton, Russo and Ness in our system who are all PMD's, but deHaan has had consistent injury struggles and 3 of those guys are long-shots to even become bottom-pairing defensemen at the NHL level. Essentially that leaves Donovan to be that guy. If he doesn't pan out, we are pretty much screwed. Even if he does, we'll need another once Streit leaves or starts to decline(which could be sooner than we think).

I agree that trading Nelson for Rundblad is a bit risky, and I might not even decide to pull the trigger on it when all is said and done, but if we had a chance to get a guy like Yandle for a package centered around Nelson, I think the "crazy" thing would be not pulling the trigger. A 26 year old, top-pairing PMD who can put up 50 points a year? Sign me up.

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11-28-2012, 11:44 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
I agree that trading Nelson for Rundblad is a bit risky, and I might not even decide to pull the trigger on it when all is said and done, but if we had a chance to get a guy like Yandle for a package centered around Nelson, I think the "crazy" thing would be not pulling the trigger. A 26 year old, top-pairing PMD who can put up 50 points a year? Sign me up.
If I thought there was a remote chance such a thing would happen, I would agree with you. But I don't. You don't get top-pairing D-men in their prime on the trade market unless there's a contract issue. And if you do, it's not for a prospect - it's for a star player, which we don't have to trade.

Basically, we're either trading for a guy like Rundblad, or we're trolling for a cap dump.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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11-28-2012, 12:14 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
If I thought there was a remote chance such a thing would happen, I would agree with you. But I don't. You don't get top-pairing D-men in their prime on the trade market unless there's a contract issue. And if you do, it's not for a prospect - it's for a star player, which we don't have to trade.

Basically, we're either trading for a guy like Rundblad, or we're trolling for a cap dump.

Cheers,

Dan-o
Regardless of whether or not that would be true in this case, I proposed a deal of Yandle for Nelson, our 2013 1st(assuming it was top-10) and Ness and more Isles fans were against it than Phoenix fans.

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11-28-2012, 12:28 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
Regardless of whether or not that would be true in this case, I proposed a deal of Yandle for Nelson, our 2013 1st(assuming it was top-10) and Ness and more Isles fans were against it than Phoenix fans.
Hfboards poster's opinions on the (over-inflated) value of prospects is your evidence?

Cheers,

Dan-o

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11-28-2012, 12:39 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
I've seen him play and have been extremely impressed. That said I think Strome has the higher ceiling and ultimately will be the better player. I suppose we could phase Nielsen out and replace him with Brock, or move Strome to the wing, but I'd rather take advantage of the trade value he brings if it allows us to address a need.

I think some people underestimate just how badly we need to add another PMD to this team. IMO Visnovsky is gone, whether or not he plays here this season. Streit should remain, leaving him, Hamonic, MacDonald and Carkner as our only established NHL defenseman. The only PMD in that group is Streit, who will be 35 at the start of next season and 36 three months into it.

We do have guys like deHaan, Donovan, Kichton, Russo and Ness in our system who are all PMD's, but deHaan has had consistent injury struggles and 3 of those guys are long-shots to even become bottom-pairing defensemen at the NHL level. Essentially that leaves Donovan to be that guy. If he doesn't pan out, we are pretty much screwed. Even if he does, we'll need another once Streit leaves or starts to decline(which could be sooner than we think).

I agree that trading Nelson for Rundblad is a bit risky, and I might not even decide to pull the trigger on it when all is said and done, but if we had a chance to get a guy like Yandle for a package centered around Nelson, I think the "crazy" thing would be not pulling the trigger. A 26 year old, top-pairing PMD who can put up 50 points a year? Sign me up.
How about an affordable PMD? Would you have any interest in David Schlemko? Quality guy that continues to surprise and effectively puts up points from the PP2 unit. At one point last season, Schlemko and Klesla made the best Yotes pairing. League minimum contract and his trade value is still pretty low, despite putting up good numbers in limited time.

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11-28-2012, 01:18 PM
  #43
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BTW, I read some of the AHL thread on the Phoenix board about Rundblad.

The discussion about Rundblad sounds eerily similar to the discussion on NYI boards about Robert Nilsson years ago. Yeah, I don't think we're interested in that kind of a (big ice) prospect. If that's the best we can get from the Yotes, I'd rather look elsewhere. Matt Donovan is obviously well ahead of Rundblad in his development. Assuming there's no 2012-2013, here's what I expect our D to look like:

Streit (resigned)-Hamonic
MacDonald-???
Donovan-Carkner

I'd rather trade for Tom Gilbert, or sign Doug Murray, Rob Scuderi, or Mike Roszival. Barring that, there's always Keith Ballard. The wildcard, of course, is Reinhart.

In any case, reading that board solidified my opinion that Yandle ain't gonna be traded anytime soon.

So, back to the original deal. Bailey isn't really a center, and Klesla may be good for 60 (not 80) games. So neither is exactly what the other is looking for, and yet - it might be the best deal the two could work out.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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11-28-2012, 01:23 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Kaibur View Post
How about an affordable PMD? Would you have any interest in David Schlemko? Quality guy that continues to surprise and effectively puts up points from the PP2 unit. At one point last season, Schlemko and Klesla made the best Yotes pairing. League minimum contract and his trade value is still pretty low, despite putting up good numbers in limited time.
We have one of those named Andrew MacDonald. We don't really need another one. We need either a cagey defender with some size and experience (think Scuderi), or a dynamic puck mover. Otherwise, it's not worth spending more than draft picks on.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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11-28-2012, 01:24 PM
  #45
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I'm assuming the Coyotes would prefer Bailey to the offer I made around Mathieu Perreault a few weeks back. Drat.

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11-28-2012, 01:33 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
Hfboards poster's opinions on the (over-inflated) value of prospects is your evidence?

Cheers,

Dan-o
What evidence? I have no idea on whether or not PHX would trade Yandle for futures. I wasn't trying to prove that one way or another. My original post you quoted was in response to Slapshot(among other Isles fans) not wanting to trade Nelson, even if it were in a deal for Yandle.

What I was referring to in my last post was that even though you said you would trade Nelson for Yandle(even though you don't think PHX would do it), most Isles fans on these parts wouldn't.

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11-28-2012, 01:37 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
BTW, I read some of the AHL thread on the Phoenix board about Rundblad.

The discussion about Rundblad sounds eerily similar to the discussion on NYI boards about Robert Nilsson years ago. Yeah, I don't think we're interested in that kind of a (big ice) prospect. If that's the best we can get from the Yotes, I'd rather look elsewhere. Matt Donovan is obviously well ahead of Rundblad in his development. Assuming there's no 2012-2013, here's what I expect our D to look like:

Streit (resigned)-Hamonic
MacDonald-???
Donovan-Carkner

I'd rather trade for Tom Gilbert, or sign Doug Murray, Rob Scuderi, or Mike Roszival. Barring that, there's always Keith Ballard. The wildcard, of course, is Reinhart.

In any case, reading that board solidified my opinion that Yandle ain't gonna be traded anytime soon.

So, back to the original deal. Bailey isn't really a center, and Klesla may be good for 60 (not 80) games. So neither is exactly what the other is looking for, and yet - it might be the best deal the two could work out.

Cheers,

Dan-o
While that may be true, Donovan isn't anywhere close to being the prospect that Rundblad is. Rundblad might have as high of a ceiling as any defensive prospect.

Pretty bold statement comparing him to Nilsson though, assuming fans' message board comments are your evidence

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11-28-2012, 03:49 PM
  #48
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While that may be true, Donovan isn't anywhere close to being the prospect that Rundblad is. Rundblad might have as high of a ceiling as any defensive prospect.

Pretty bold statement comparing him to Nilsson though, assuming fans' message board comments are your evidence
1. Misunderstanding on the point about the trade. I thought you were taking PHX posters opinion on whether they'd trade Yandle for futures as evidence. You weren't. My bad.

2. I take the response of people who watch the AHL team regularly on the team boards more seriously than one-off pronouncements on a trade board. Don't you?

If people who watch Rundblad regularly say he is lost defensively and can't connect with his teammates offensively, I believe them. While he might have a high ceiling, I'm interested in immediate contribution, especially if I'm trading Nielsen or Nelson. Or Bailey, for that matter.

As for Donovan not being close to Rundblad as a prospect. One is a liability in the AHL, the other has been the best defender on a team that includes Travis Hamonic. When the Isles next play, they'll only play one rookie PMD, and that'll be Donovan.

I wonder, hypothetically, whether PHX fans would trade Rundblad for Donovan straight up.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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11-28-2012, 04:56 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post

We do have guys like deHaan, Donovan, Kichton, Russo and Ness in our system who are all PMD's, but deHaan has had consistent injury struggles and 3 of those guys are long-shots to even become bottom-pairing defensemen at the NHL level. Essentially that leaves Donovan to be that guy. If he doesn't pan out, we are pretty much screwed. Even if he does, we'll need another once Streit leaves or starts to decline(which could be sooner than we think).

.
According to Pronman, the talent level betwen De Haan and Donovan is very close. He thinks Donovan has the upside to develop into a #3 nhl d-man. De Haan's injuries are a worry, but unless the isles are souring on Donovan and giving up on 22 yr old De Haan, I don't see them rushing into a trade for a pmd prospect.

Also, the isles just used a high 2nd to draft Pokka, another pmd.
I'm in no rush to see Snow deal any top center prospects. I want to see what Strome/Brock Nelson can do in the NYI top 6.

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11-28-2012, 07:01 PM
  #50
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1. Misunderstanding on the point about the trade. I thought you were taking PHX posters opinion on whether they'd trade Yandle for futures as evidence. You weren't. My bad.

2. I take the response of people who watch the AHL team regularly on the team boards more seriously than one-off pronouncements on a trade board. Don't you?

If people who watch Rundblad regularly say he is lost defensively and can't connect with his teammates offensively, I believe them. While he might have a high ceiling, I'm interested in immediate contribution, especially if I'm trading Nielsen or Nelson. Or Bailey, for that matter.

As for Donovan not being close to Rundblad as a prospect. One is a liability in the AHL, the other has been the best defender on a team that includes Travis Hamonic. When the Isles next play, they'll only play one rookie PMD, and that'll be Donovan.

I wonder, hypothetically, whether PHX fans would trade Rundblad for Donovan straight up.

Cheers,

Dan-o
So you can value the opinion of PHX fans when it comes to their prospects, but not when it comes to trade proposals involving their team?


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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
According to Pronman, the talent level betwen De Haan and Donovan is very close. He thinks Donovan has the upside to develop into a #3 nhl d-man. De Haan's injuries are a worry, but unless the isles are souring on Donovan and giving up on 22 yr old De Haan, I don't see them rushing into a trade for a pmd prospect.

Also, the isles just used a high 2nd to draft Pokka, another pmd.
I'm in no rush to see Snow deal any top center prospects. I want to see what Strome/Brock Nelson can do in the NYI top 6.
What would your plans be with Strome/Nelson if they both pan out? Just curious.

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