HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Luongo thread continued...

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-27-2012, 05:53 PM
  #226
kthsn
Registered User
 
kthsn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,726
vCash: 1785
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
This is true. Kessel, Lupul, JVR and Kulemin are actually very impressive in terms of having 4 wingers that good.
I'd actually put Mac on the 2nd and Kulemin on the 3rd. Either way with Frattin/Kadri pushing for a spot it would make sense to deal one for an upgrade somewhere.

Burke should look into a MacArthur for a #4 RD.

kthsn is offline  
Old
11-27-2012, 05:59 PM
  #227
Bleach Clean
Registered User
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,292
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Why is it so dam hard for people to get it. I never said their value league wide was as 1st liners. But they are our 1st liners. This is again why a deal isn't good between us, Van says this is what we want and we don't care how it effects your team....and then can't figure out why TO fans say no. WE DO NOT have the depth to give Van fans what they feel is worthy.


It's not just what VAN fans feel, apparently Gillis asked for Bozak (confirmed by Botchford)... I would hate to think he is being valued as even a faux 1st liner... I hope Burke isn't as oblivious.

Bleach Clean is offline  
Old
11-27-2012, 06:06 PM
  #228
racerjoe
Registered User
 
racerjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 2,099
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blankall View Post
Bertuzzi's value was nowhere near what Kessel's is now.

The Moore incident most certainly affected his value. He was 31.

Bertuzzi was soon dealt by Florida for Mattias and a conditional pick. Yes, his value was decreased due to a back injury. You don't go from top tier value to Matthias over one disc injury though.

Kessel on the other hand is just entering his prime. He's worth a lot more.
It did affect his value, I believe I said that, however he then put up pretty damn close to a point a game, and was still the best PF in the game, If you disagree with that statement name another PF considered better at the time.

racerjoe is offline  
Old
11-27-2012, 06:09 PM
  #229
Bleach Clean
Registered User
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,292
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
To Van- Kulemin, Frattin, Biggs, Percy
To Tor- Luongo, Raymond

Toronto holds onto all their top assets and their 1st rd pick.

The Canucks get bigger and younger - 2 things Gillis said he's looking to do.



Where's the 3C fix coming back? Or are you now content with Schroeder in that spot?


Burke will not deal Biggs IMO. Biggs came up through the jr development program of which Burke is a partner. He'd move Kadri first... And again perhaps the 1st instead of Kulemin - to keep him on the roster. Would you do:


Kulemin, Kadri, Frattin, Percy?


Or


1st, Kadri, Frattin, Percy? -- This is the riskier package as none of these guys could end up on VAN's roster where as Kulemin is likely to make it.

Bleach Clean is offline  
Old
11-27-2012, 06:12 PM
  #230
NYVanfan
Registered User
 
NYVanfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,058
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
It's not just what VAN fans feel, apparently Gillis asked for Bozak (confirmed by Botchford)... I would hate to think he is being valued as even a faux 1st liner... I hope Burke isn't as oblivious.
by Gillis?
what could he be seeing him as, other than as 3rd line center?


bozak, frattin, 1st, gunnarson

could be the 'coming-down price'

1st<#5OA
Gunnar<Gardiner

allows Gillis to move Ballard and Gunnar becomes the #3LD

NYVanfan is offline  
Old
11-27-2012, 06:13 PM
  #231
birddog*
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,988
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
I'd actually put Mac on the 2nd and Kulemin on the 3rd. Either way with Frattin/Kadri pushing for a spot it would make sense to deal one for an upgrade somewhere.

Burke should look into a MacArthur for a #4 RD.
Mac is a 20 goal scorer and doesn't get top pp time. 20 goal scorers get more than 4th round picks. what do Canuck 20 goal scorers get traded for? Not ones that hit it 3 years ago but last year. What did David Booth cost?

birddog* is offline  
Old
11-27-2012, 06:14 PM
  #232
LPH
[hello] :)
 
LPH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Granduland
Country: United States
Posts: 39,247
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Why is it so dam hard for people to get it. I never said their value league wide was as 1st liners. But they are our 1st liners. This is again why a deal isn't good between us, Van says this is what we want and we don't care how it effects your team....and then can't figure out why TO fans say no. WE DO NOT have the depth to give Van fans what they feel is worthy.
I think what people are failing to understand is that the deal must make Toronto a better team for them to accept it (seems obvious). If Toronto gives up Lupul and Bozak as well as a first and a prospect they come out of it a worse team, and although Reimer isn't amazing imo Reimer with Lupul and Bozak is a better team than Luongo without them.

I would love to get Kadri and Bozak with a pick (2014 or top 10 protected 2013 or a swap of firsts)
but I willing to bargain from there, and although Gillis' hands aren't tied we still aren't dealing from a position of strength

LPH is offline  
Old
11-27-2012, 06:15 PM
  #233
sniper81
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: toronto
Posts: 1,061
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Where's the 3C fix coming back? Or are you now content with Schroeder in that spot?


Burke will not deal Biggs IMO. Biggs came up through the jr development program of which Burke is a partner. He'd move Kadri first... And again perhaps the 1st instead of Kulemin - to keep him on the roster. Would you do:


Kulemin, Kadri, Frattin, Percy?


Or


1st, Kadri, Frattin, Percy? -- This is the riskier package as none of these guys could end up on VAN's roster where as Kulemin is likely to make it.
So the first package plays out like this. Nik Kulemin who just 2 seasons ago scored 30 goals and will probably average around 15-20.
Nazem Kadri, 2009 7th overall pick who is ppg in the AHL this year and 19 in 51 NHL games. Then both first round picks from 2011 who are having good seasons in the ohl.

Why does it make sense for Toronto to give up that package. If they do the second package they give 3 previous first rounders and and additional one, how does that make sense?

sniper81 is offline  
Old
11-27-2012, 06:16 PM
  #234
LPH
[hello] :)
 
LPH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Granduland
Country: United States
Posts: 39,247
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Mac is a 20 goal scorer and doesn't get top pp time. 20 goal scorers get more than 4th round picks. what do Canuck 20 goal scorers get traded for? Not ones that hit it 3 years ago but last year. What did David Booth cost?
might just be me but i thought he said #4 D not 4th round pick

LPH is offline  
Old
11-27-2012, 06:16 PM
  #235
racerjoe
Registered User
 
racerjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 2,099
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Mac is a 20 goal scorer and doesn't get top pp time. 20 goal scorers get more than 4th round picks. what do Canuck 20 goal scorers get traded for? Not ones that hit it 3 years ago but last year. What did David Booth cost?
Booth cost us a soon to be UFA, who was struggling and injured, and a player that we signed for one season that year as an experiment that failed. We also took back some salary.

racerjoe is offline  
Old
11-27-2012, 06:18 PM
  #236
NYVanfan
Registered User
 
NYVanfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,058
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Mac is a 20 goal scorer and doesn't get top pp time. 20 goal scorers get more than 4th round picks. what do Canuck 20 goal scorers get traded for? Not ones that hit it 3 years ago but last year. What did David Booth cost?
ufas sturm & samuelsson ...and they got a 3rd for taking Reinprect's salary too
so they gave up little and got a guy who is still a question mark
the comparison to MacA doesnt inspire

NYVanfan is offline  
Old
11-27-2012, 06:21 PM
  #237
kthsn
Registered User
 
kthsn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,726
vCash: 1785
Quote:
Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Mac is a 20 goal scorer and doesn't get top pp time. 20 goal scorers get more than 4th round picks. what do Canuck 20 goal scorers get traded for? Not ones that hit it 3 years ago but last year. What did David Booth cost?
I meant a right side #4 d-man. I'm not sold on Holzer or Komisarek playing more than a bottom pairing role.

Sorry for the confusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
might just be me but i thought he said #4 D not 4th round pick
Yup.

kthsn is offline  
Old
11-27-2012, 06:21 PM
  #238
Bleach Clean
Registered User
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,292
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sniper81 View Post
So the first package plays out like this. Nik Kulemin who just 2 seasons ago scored 30 goals and will probably average around 15-20.
Nazem Kadri, 2009 7th overall pick who is ppg in the AHL this year and 19 in 51 NHL games. Then both first round picks from 2011 who are having good seasons in the ohl.

Why does it make sense for Toronto to give up that package. If they do the second package they give 3 previous first rounders and and additional one, how does that make sense?


No prospect retains their draft position. It comes down to what they have done. You cite Kadri's PPG in the AHL, but do you see him see as a lock for the NHL. If so, why? There are definite question marks surrounding Kadri and Percy. Making the NHL is hard. Staying there is even harder. Neither player is a lock.



On another note, if we deal Raymond are we dealing a 25 goal, 53 point forward? Should we use a player's best year as his ongoing value?

Bleach Clean is offline  
Old
11-27-2012, 06:26 PM
  #239
StringerBell
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 10,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
We don't actually disagree here. We both think Gillis will deal down from his initial demand. It's how much lower he will accept. Clearly, he's lowered his demand already by going from the 5th overall to perhaps a mid 1st rounder in 2013 -- So he's already not going to get the same value.



It comes down to Gardiner IMO. When Gillis moves off of him, and he will, what gets close to his value? Is Kadri in the same ballpark? Kadri + Percy? And how does that change the rest of the package if that's more value than Gardiner? etc... That's where I think a deal gets done


Nope. Gillis is clear about not taking on salary dumps, and the reason is clear: Next year, the Canucks have to shed 9m in salary overall to get under a 60m cap. This with having to sign Higgins, Edler, Lapierre, Malhotra and Raymond... Not looking good.



IMO it's why guys like Bozak and Frattin were targeted. Low salaries.
Kulemin at $2.8 million is not a salary dump and Connolly expires after this season, so he wouldn't affect the re-signings. I also think when Gillis goes off Gardiner he'll have to land on a piece of lesser value. Not something of equal or greater value, as you seem to be proposing.

StringerBell is offline  
Old
11-27-2012, 06:33 PM
  #240
Bleach Clean
Registered User
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,292
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
Kulemin at $2.8 million is not a salary dump and Connolly expires after this season, so he wouldn't affect the re-signings. I also think when Gillis goes off Gardiner he'll have to land on a piece of lesser value. Not something of equal or greater value, as you seem to be proposing.




What piece did I propose that is of equal or greater value to Gardiner? Kadri = no. Kadri + Percy = debatable, but still no.


Connolly is a salary dump, which brings no value back. Kulemin is not, but then I don't have a problem with Kulemin coming back.


I think you've twice tried to make arguments against my stance without understanding it. I didn't propose an equal/greater value alternative, as I see Kadri+/-Percy of lesser value, and you've inferred that I think Gillis won't negotiate down for his stance, which was again incorrect... What will round 3 look like?

Bleach Clean is offline  
Old
11-27-2012, 06:38 PM
  #241
sniper81
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: toronto
Posts: 1,061
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
No prospect retains their draft position. It comes down to what they have done. You cite Kadri's PPG in the AHL, but do you see him see as a lock for the NHL. If so, why? There are definite question marks surrounding Kadri and Percy. Making the NHL is hard. Staying there is even harder. Neither player is a lock.



On another note, if we deal Raymond are we dealing a 25 goal, 53 point forward? Should we use a player's best year as his ongoing value?
I said Kulemin averages 15-20 a year, don't see how that is using his best year as his value. I see Nazem as an NHL player in the next year or so because his offensive creativity and play making gives him the potential to probably be a second line forward. He needs to keep limiting his turnovers and has done that in the games i have watched, also his positioning is improving which is a big factor for him. I watched Percy live a few times this past month and was wondering wht definite question marks you had that surrounded him.

sniper81 is offline  
Old
11-27-2012, 07:12 PM
  #242
blankall
Registered User
 
blankall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,207
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
It did affect his value, I believe I said that, however he then put up pretty damn close to a point a game, and was still the best PF in the game, If you disagree with that statement name another PF considered better at the time.
Okay...you know we can look these things up right? In 2005/2006 Bertuzzi was 45th in the league in scoring. He got to play with Naslund. You don't think a single of those players ahead of him was considered a better power forward?

Keep in mind this list included Forsberg, Sundin, Modano, Lecavalier, Thornton, Ovechkin, Staal, and many more having better offensive season than Bertuzzi.

Bertuzzi was far from the best power forward in the league that year. A better description is a very good power forward with a large off-ice issue. This reflected his trade value. The Canucks missed the playoffs that season, and there were all sorts of rumours about the Moore incident being a serious contributor to that.

You fail to mention that Bertuzzi had a season high of 46 goals 2 years prior to the trade. He never got anywhere close to that again.

blankall is offline  
Old
11-27-2012, 07:14 PM
  #243
StringerBell
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 10,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
It comes down to Gardiner IMO. When Gillis moves off of him, and he will, what gets close to his value? Is Kadri in the same ballpark? Kadri + Percy? And how does that change the rest of the package if that's more value than Gardiner? etc... That's where I think a deal gets done

Nope. Gillis is clear about not taking on salary dumps, and the reason is clear: Next year, the Canucks have to shed 9m in salary overall to get under a 60m cap. This with having to sign Higgins, Edler, Lapierre, Malhotra and Raymond... Not looking good.

Regarding the Gardiner situation, you've been anything but clear on your stance here, so pardon me if I haven't quite grasped it. The underlined excerpt comes across as an assertion that the replacement piece should be close in value to Gardiner, which I interpreted as equal. The bolded quote is nearly incomprehensible due to the wording, but it sounds as though you're intimating that a deal will get done by swapping Gardiner with something of more value (see bolded + underlined text).

Really, you just asked a few questions before stating that's where you think a deal will get done. Not the clearest method of stating your position. I'm sure I'm not the only one without a clue what you're getting at.


As for Connolly, you said the 'clear reason' we can't take him on as a salary dump is because we need to re-sign players after his contract expires. I get that he has little to no to negative value, and Gillis might not want him for that reason, but your re-signing reasoning is illogical.

StringerBell is offline  
Old
11-27-2012, 07:24 PM
  #244
Bleach Clean
Registered User
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,292
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sniper81 View Post
I said Kulemin averages 15-20 a year, don't see how that is using his best year as his value. I see Nazem as an NHL player in the next year or so because his offensive creativity and play making gives him the potential to probably be a second line forward. He needs to keep limiting his turnovers and has done that in the games i have watched, also his positioning is improving which is a big factor for him. I watched Percy live a few times this past month and was wondering wht definite question marks you had that surrounded him.




You don't know what Kulemin will average. The 30g season gets brought up in attempts to up his value despite the recency of data. He scored 7 last year. That's his most recent impact.


I too have caught Marlies games this year specifically to watch Kadri and Colborne. Kadri still gets lost in the play and overhandles the puck too much. It still remains to be seen if he will stick. The real concern comes in when you say he's got the potential to become a 2nd line forward? What does he do in the meantime, play in the bottom6? That's what makes him boom/bust to me - even now.

Bleach Clean is offline  
Old
11-27-2012, 07:28 PM
  #245
Bourne Endeavor
Moderator
( _)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■)
 
Bourne Endeavor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,956
vCash: 13357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
And do both Lupul and Connolly walk at the end of the year? The problem with that trade isn't value (although that can be debated too), it's that "new" Canuck team isn't sustainable anyways.


Guys like Kadri make much more sense for that reason.
Toss in a conditional first in the event Lupul works, although I hardly see that being an issue. Connolly is irrelevant, but if we can get both Kadri and Lupul then we do that. You cannot expect much better.

Bourne Endeavor is online now  
Old
11-27-2012, 07:30 PM
  #246
sniper81
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: toronto
Posts: 1,061
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
You don't know what Kulemin will average. The 30g season gets brought up in attempts to up his value despite the recency of data. He scored 7 last year. That's his most recent impact.


I too have caught Marlies games this year specifically to watch Kadri and Colborne. Kadri still gets lost in the play and overhandles the puck too much. It still remains to be seen if he will stick. The real concern comes in when you say he's got the potential to become a 2nd line forward? What does he do in the meantime, play in the bottom6? That's what makes him boom/bust to me - even now.
Well how many games have you watched? In the mean time Kadri plays top line minutes in the AHL. I still don't see how its top six or bust for him, he played third line minutes and put up 19 points in 51 games in the NHL and Toronto had an above 500 record with him in the line up, why would that make him top 6 or bust in your mind?

sniper81 is offline  
Old
11-27-2012, 07:39 PM
  #247
Bleach Clean
Registered User
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,292
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
Regarding the Gardiner situation, you've been anything but clear on your stance here, so pardon me if I haven't quite grasped it.


The underlined excerpt comes across as an assertion that the replacement piece should be close in value to Gardiner, which I interpreted as equal. The bolded quote is nearly incomprehensible due to the wording, but it sounds as though you're intimating that a deal will get done by swapping Gardiner with something of more value (see bolded + underlined text).


I clearly preface my statement with "___if___", so as to suppose value (it's supposition), not define it. It comes down to reading comprehension SB... You did bold the "if" right?




Quote:
Really, you just asked a few questions before stating that's where you think a deal will get done. Not the clearest method of stating your position. I'm sure I'm not the only one without a clue what you're getting at.


I have well maintained that the deal gets done close to Gardiner's value. As in, Gardiner is replaced in the package. However, I am supposing what pieces get close. Does Kadri alone? Does Kadri + Percy do it? etc...



If you don't get what I'm proposing, say so. Don't misinterpret my text, use them as a springboard to say how you disagree, and then wonder why you are corrected on it. Clarify first, then respond. Seems logical right? Your inference as to what others are thinking is amusing as well.



Quote:
As for Connolly, you said the 'clear reason' we can't take him on as a salary dump is because we need to re-sign players after his contract expires. I get that he has little to no to negative value, and Gillis might not want him for that reason, but your re-signing reasoning is illogical.


This is true. This one I will concede as Connolly does come off the books at the end of the year. However, is he still a "salary dump"? If yes, then the thought still holds, regardless of the reason _I_ gave you. And I hope this team isn't open to taking on 4.75m Connolly with the intention of throwing him away at the end of the year. Assets should want to be retained no?



Perhaps he feels he shouldn't have to take on salary when dealing a good player? Maybe.


Last edited by Bleach Clean: 11-27-2012 at 08:07 PM.
Bleach Clean is offline  
Old
11-27-2012, 07:46 PM
  #248
Bleach Clean
Registered User
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,292
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Toss in a conditional first in the event Lupul works, although I hardly see that being an issue. Connolly is irrelevant, but if we can get both Kadri and Lupul then we do that. You cannot expect much better.

Maybe. I just don't think MG takes on a salary dump is all. There was a rumour of him rejecting the same notion from Tallon.



Quote:
Originally Posted by sniper81 View Post
Well how many games have you watched? In the mean time Kadri plays top line minutes in the AHL. I still don't see how its top six or bust for him, he played third line minutes and put up 19 points in 51 games in the NHL and Toronto had an above 500 record with him in the line up, why would that make him top 6 or bust in your mind?


I've watched 4 games. Limited I know, but I watched from his "breakout" against the SA Rampage.


Ok, let me clarify: You said he could end up solidifying a 2nd line spot. Meaning, that's the goal. But before he reaches that goal, what is he? Is he a 3rd liner in the meantime? Not 3rd line minutes, but 3rd line match-ups. Do you think he does well in this role given what it traditionally entails?

Bleach Clean is offline  
Old
11-27-2012, 07:47 PM
  #249
NYVanfan
Registered User
 
NYVanfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,058
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blankall View Post
Okay...you know we can look these things up right? In 2005/2006 Bertuzzi was 45th in the league in scoring. He got to play with Naslund. You don't think a single of those players ahead of him was considered a better power forward?

Keep in mind this list included Forsberg, Sundin, Modano, Lecavalier, Thornton, Ovechkin, Staal, and many more having better offensive season than Bertuzzi.

Bertuzzi was far from the best power forward in the league that year. A better description is a very good power forward with a large off-ice issue. This reflected his trade value. The Canucks missed the playoffs that season, and there were all sorts of rumours about the Moore incident being a serious contributor to that.

You fail to mention that Bertuzzi had a season high of 46 goals 2 years prior to the trade. He never got anywhere close to that again.
and he was PPG avg for the 4 years prior, with a 95 pts season in there to boot.
meanwhile Lupul just broke 60 pts for the first time in 8 years, and has otherwise been a 30-50 pt player.

NYVanfan is offline  
Old
11-27-2012, 07:55 PM
  #250
DJOpus
Registered User
 
DJOpus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,749
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Mac is a 20 goal scorer and doesn't get top pp time. 20 goal scorers get more than 4th round picks. what do Canuck 20 goal scorers get traded for? Not ones that hit it 3 years ago but last year. What did David Booth cost?
Two salary dumps...and we got a 3rd back, and a smaller salary dump.

DJOpus is online now  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:56 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.