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Detroit: Bottom 6 Forwards

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Old
11-27-2012, 02:34 PM
  #51
Nyquist
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The only way I would even consider trading Helm is if he's a package for a top pairing shutdown dman. He is a third line center, but one of the most important pieces on our team.

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Old
11-27-2012, 04:55 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
Are you from St. Andrew's, Manitoba?
Yes lol. Well, technically I am in St. Clement's which is adjacent to St. Andrew's but I'm so damm close to the boundary that it really doesn't matter.

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Old
11-27-2012, 08:30 PM
  #53
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As a Red Wings fan, of the trade thrown around in here and provided the season is lost, I would do the following trades:

Abdelkader for Murray
Helm for MPS +Musil

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Old
11-27-2012, 09:10 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by the banks View Post
As a Red Wings fan, of the trade thrown around in here and provided the season is lost, I would do the following trades:

Abdelkader for Murray
Helm for MPS +Musil
Why would you do that second deal? The last thing we need is more prospects clogging up GR... and to give Helm? He's way too important to the success of the Wings to give up for prospects.

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Old
11-27-2012, 10:26 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by the banks View Post
As a Red Wings fan, of the trade thrown around in here and provided the season is lost, I would do the following trades:

Abdelkader for Murray
Helm for MPS +Musil
1. I'm not a huge fan of Murray, but the value is alright.
2. No. Edmonton has to give a proven player. At least. The bare minimum. I don't think this works.

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Old
11-27-2012, 10:28 PM
  #56
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Valuewise, what do you think of Edler for Flippula + Helm?

The Canucks would have to find a replacement somewhere, but it fills two big needs for us.(and a huge one for the Wings)

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11-27-2012, 10:46 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Valuewise, what do you think of Edler for Flippula + Helm?

The Canucks would have to find a replacement somewhere, but it fills two big needs for us.(and a huge one for the Wings)
I don't think that plus is Helm. I can see what you're thinking and I am not going to offer some bad trade to make it seem like it is completely unreasonable but I think Helm has a lot of value in Detroit. Part of the reason Filppula went to the wing was the organizations faith in Helm. Finally allowed Filppula to break out. They did offer Filppula for Nash, but it is hard to gauge Filppula's or Edler's value because of their contracts. I will say this if Detroit flips Filppula in a hurry post lockout, it tells me one thing, he wants a ton of money.

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Old
11-27-2012, 10:50 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Valuewise, what do you think of Edler for Flippula + Helm?

The Canucks would have to find a replacement somewhere, but it fills two big needs for us.(and a huge one for the Wings)
If Holland was confident he could re-sign Edler, I would be okay with that deal. It makes sense since we have a ton of forwards and obviously a weakness at D. As much as I love both Fil and Helm, Edler is much more of a need. Nyquist, Brunner, Tatar, Mursak, and Jarnkrok all looking so promising would make it a lot easier to do.

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Old
11-27-2012, 11:05 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Datsyuk Dangles View Post
If Holland was confident he could re-sign Edler, I would be okay with that deal. It makes sense since we have a ton of forwards and obviously a weakness at D. As much as I love both Fil and Helm, Edler is much more of a need. Nyquist, Brunner, Tatar, Mursak, and Jarnkrok all looking so promising would make it a lot easier to do.
Yeah, both sides would want to be confident in them re-signing. As long as we could get a solid top-4 defenseman from a Luongo trade(or elsewhere) I'd be willing to go through with that.

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Old
11-28-2012, 12:20 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Valuewise, what do you think of Edler for Flippula + Helm?

The Canucks would have to find a replacement somewhere, but it fills two big needs for us.(and a huge one for the Wings)
Not a very good chance either team does this considering both could walk away next year.

And the Canucks could very well find them in a cap issue next year anyway where they wouldn't be able to afford Edler anyways, right?

Don't think Holland does that if he thinks he can take a crack at Edler in free agency, and if Vancouver can't afford Edler, Filppula wont come that much cheaper.

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Old
11-28-2012, 01:54 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by 13 HockeyTown 40 View Post
Why would you do that second deal? The last thing we need is more prospects clogging up GR... and to give Helm? He's way too important to the success of the Wings to give up for prospects.
We have a plethora of bottom 6 forwards (Helm), we need defensive defensemen (Musil) and potential top 6 wingers (MPS)

I am also under the belief that MPS would be much more successful in Detroit than he was in Edmonton

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Old
11-28-2012, 02:00 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Valuewise, what do you think of Edler for Flippula + Helm?

The Canucks would have to find a replacement somewhere, but it fills two big needs for us.(and a huge one for the Wings)
The only problem with this is that it leaves Detroit with a big hole at center.

The basis of Edler for Filppula+ is a good premise since both have expiring contracts, What if the plus was one of Detroit's higher level prospects? Pretty much anyone outside of Smith, Nyquist, and Jarnkrok would be available. (Tatar, Sheahan, Jurco, Pulkkinen, Tvrdon, Frk, Ouellet, Sproul, Mrazek, etc)

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Old
11-28-2012, 02:05 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the banks View Post
The only problem with this is that it leaves Detroit with a big hole at center.

The basis of Edler for Filppula+ is a good premise since both have expiring contracts, What if the plus was one of Detroit's higher level prospects? Pretty much anyone outside of Smith, Nyquist, and Jarnkrok would be available. (Tatar, Sheahan, Jurco, Pulkkinen, Tvrdon, Frk, Ouellet, Sproul, Mrazek, etc)
I doubt very much Mrazek is available, though with Lack already there I don't think they would ask. Ouellet would also be tough to stomach hope Holland would swing one of the wing players, they don't have enough space for all of them, someone has to be dealt.

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Old
11-28-2012, 07:55 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Datsyuk Dangles View Post
Detroit doesn't need 6/7 defensemen. We need 3-5 dmen who are shutdown type guys. Basically a guy like Brad Stuart. Regarding the Murray for Abdelkader deal, I would do that in a second. I don't understand why people like Abdelkader. I would much rather have that extra spot for rookies.
Brad Stuart was crap for the past two and a half seasons. We don't need a Brad Stuart; we need a guy like Konstantinov. Or even Jiri Fischer.

The thing about Detroit under Holland's tenure is this; he's subtly been working to find a Konstantinov replacement since he was hired. Fischer is the closest he came; Chelios had that one great year, but he wasn't a great long-term solution. Fischer, Kuznetsov, Stuart, etc. have all been attempts to replace what Vladdie brought.

As for Abdelkader, I can understand the like for him. He's young and physical, good defensively and looks to be a long-term roster player with decent upside. He probably will play in the top-12 over Miller going forward, even though Miller is a better player right now. With regards to having the spot for rookies; I'd rather have Abdelkader in the lineup over Bertuzzi. Maybe this could be the lineup:

Cleary/Datsyuk/Tatar
Nyquist/Zetterberg/Brunner
Franzen/Filppula/Samuelsson
Abdelkader/Helm/Tootoo

Emmerton
Mursak
Bertuzzi
Miller
Eaves

A fourth line of Abdelkader/Helm/Tootoo would be an excellent checking line that would compare well to a lot of third lines. And jut imagine if Holland had skipped Bertuzzi and kept Hudler instead, with the rest remaining the same? The you drop Abs to 13, put Cleary on line 4, and Hudler plays on Z's or Dats' LW, with Nyquist on the other. That leaves a serious competition between Emmerton, Mursak, and Miller for 14th.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Datsyuk Dangles View Post
If Holland was confident he could re-sign Edler, I would be okay with that deal. It makes sense since we have a ton of forwards and obviously a weakness at D. As much as I love both Fil and Helm, Edler is much more of a need. Nyquist, Brunner, Tatar, Mursak, and Jarnkrok all looking so promising would make it a lot easier to do.
Edler is not a need. Hamhuis is a need, if we're using Canucks defensemen as the baseline. Garrison even fits the bill. Edler is a luxury to a team that already has Kronwall, White, Quincey, Smith, Kindl, and Colaiacovo. Ericsson is the only guy on the team who's not an offensive guy and he can handle the puck just fine.

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Old
11-28-2012, 08:00 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
What about Abdelkader?
You can have him for free and you get a 25 dollar Best Buy gift card.

Guy is fake tough and since scoring those two goals in the 09 Finals its been all downhill from there. He is mediocre at being mediocre.

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Old
11-28-2012, 11:34 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
You can have him for free and you get a 25 dollar Best Buy gift card.

Guy is fake tough and since scoring those two goals in the 09 Finals its been all downhill from there. He is mediocre at being mediocre.
Thanks Mr. Negative

Most bottom-six forwards are mediocre.

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Old
11-28-2012, 12:26 PM
  #67
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If he can kill penalties and play sort of tough ES minutes at center, Buffalo would be interested in Abdelkader.

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Old
11-28-2012, 12:36 PM
  #68
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Despite limited skills, Abdelkader is far from worthless to DRW as a bottom 6-er, he is pretty tough and can chip in with a goal every now and then. So if he was to be traded it would be nice to get a toughie back, like Murray.

Not sure if I would say that he is that good at penalty killing though. DRW has several other forwards that is better at that.


Last edited by Tomas W: 11-28-2012 at 12:44 PM.
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Old
11-28-2012, 12:59 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by the banks View Post
We have a plethora of bottom 6 forwards (Helm), we need defensive defensemen (Musil) and potential top 6 wingers (MPS)

I am also under the belief that MPS would be much more successful in Detroit than he was in Edmonton
Where would Musil and MPS fit in GR next year? I understand that Musil would be nice to have but to give up a 25 year old center who will be a big part of your core for years to come just doesn't make sense to me. The only way I would want Helm involved in a trade would be for a Star player, not more prospects.

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11-28-2012, 04:15 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Brad Stuart was crap for the past two and a half seasons. We don't need a Brad Stuart; we need a guy like Konstantinov. Or even Jiri Fischer.

The thing about Detroit under Holland's tenure is this; he's subtly been working to find a Konstantinov replacement since he was hired. Fischer is the closest he came; Chelios had that one great year, but he wasn't a great long-term solution. Fischer, Kuznetsov, Stuart, etc. have all been attempts to replace what Vladdie brought.

As for Abdelkader, I can understand the like for him. He's young and physical, good defensively and looks to be a long-term roster player with decent upside. He probably will play in the top-12 over Miller going forward, even though Miller is a better player right now. With regards to having the spot for rookies; I'd rather have Abdelkader in the lineup over Bertuzzi. Maybe this could be the lineup:

Cleary/Datsyuk/Tatar
Nyquist/Zetterberg/Brunner
Franzen/Filppula/Samuelsson
Abdelkader/Helm/Tootoo

Emmerton
Mursak
Bertuzzi
Miller
Eaves

A fourth line of Abdelkader/Helm/Tootoo would be an excellent checking line that would compare well to a lot of third lines. And jut imagine if Holland had skipped Bertuzzi and kept Hudler instead, with the rest remaining the same? The you drop Abs to 13, put Cleary on line 4, and Hudler plays on Z's or Dats' LW, with Nyquist on the other. That leaves a serious competition between Emmerton, Mursak, and Miller for 14th.



Edler is not a need. Hamhuis is a need, if we're using Canucks defensemen as the baseline. Garrison even fits the bill. Edler is a luxury to a team that already has Kronwall, White, Quincey, Smith, Kindl, and Colaiacovo. Ericsson is the only guy on the team who's not an offensive guy and he can handle the puck just fine.
I'll agree that Brad Stuart was overrated, calling him crap is ridiculous though.

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Old
11-28-2012, 04:20 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the banks View Post
The only problem with this is that it leaves Detroit with a big hole at center.

The basis of Edler for Filppula+ is a good premise since both have expiring contracts, What if the plus was one of Detroit's higher level prospects? Pretty much anyone outside of Smith, Nyquist, and Jarnkrok would be available. (Tatar, Sheahan, Jurco, Pulkkinen, Tvrdon, Frk, Ouellet, Sproul, Mrazek, etc)
Ouellet and Jurco are the most interesting prospects of the ones you listed in my opinion; that said I don't know if I would do it to fill only one immediate need. It might be worth revisiting this idea once the season(hopefully) gets started.

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Old
11-28-2012, 04:47 PM
  #72
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Bertuzzi-Josefson-Clarkson would be a killer third line.....

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Old
11-28-2012, 05:06 PM
  #73
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Bertuzzi-Josefson-Clarkson would be a killer third line.....
What would the Devils be willing to give up?

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Old
11-28-2012, 05:11 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by 13 HockeyTown 40 View Post
Thanks Mr. Negative

Most bottom-six forwards are mediocre.
I seriously don't get the hate for Abdelkader, hes a freaking 4th liner, what the heck do people expect out of him. I really don't understand the fake tough thing either, yeah he fights and loses, but he is one of the few on the team who do fight, just because he usually gets beat up doesn't make him fake tough.

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Old
11-28-2012, 06:04 PM
  #75
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Brad Stuart was crap for the past two and a half seasons. We don't need a Brad Stuart; we need a guy like Konstantinov. Or even Jiri Fischer.
Stuart made his mistakes, but to say he's been crap for 2 years is just flat out lying.

Quote:
Cleary/Datsyuk/Tatar
Nyquist/Zetterberg/Brunner
Franzen/Filppula/Samuelsson
Abdelkader/Helm/Tootoo

Emmerton
Mursak
Bertuzzi
Miller
Eaves
That first line you posted looks absolutely terrible.

Quote:
A fourth line of Abdelkader/Helm/Tootoo would be an excellent checking line that would compare well to a lot of third lines. And jut imagine if Holland had skipped Bertuzzi and kept Hudler instead, with the rest remaining the same? The you drop Abs to 13, put Cleary on line 4, and Hudler plays on Z's or Dats' LW, with Nyquist on the other. That leaves a serious competition between Emmerton, Mursak, and Miller for 14th.
Hudler is gone. He is not on the Red Wings anymore, and he is not coming back. The sooner you come to terms with this the easier it will be to move on.

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