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Old
11-27-2012, 10:20 PM
  #1
Banana Sandwiches
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Edmonton-New Jersey

To Edmonton:

Henrik Tallinder
2nd round pick

To New Jersey:

Sam Gagner


Willing to switch out Tallinder with Volchenkov and change the draft pick if appropriate. Just kinda threw the draft pick in there to be honest. All I know is, I'd like to see Sam Gagner on the Devils.

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Old
11-27-2012, 10:25 PM
  #2
Vankiller Whale
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Edmonton needs Gagner more than they need Tallinder. They'd be left with Horcoff at 2C.

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Old
11-27-2012, 10:32 PM
  #3
Banana Sandwiches
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Edmonton needs Gagner more than they need Tallinder. They'd be left with Horcoff at 2C.
I thought Edmonton's main problem was on defense.

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Old
11-27-2012, 10:37 PM
  #4
Vankiller Whale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana Sandwiches View Post
I thought Edmonton's main problem was on defense.
They could use top-pairing defensemen, but they have a plethora of #3-6 defensemen. Smid, Petry, Schultz, Schultz, Whitney, Peckham all off the top of my head.

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Old
11-27-2012, 10:42 PM
  #5
CSimpson18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
They could use top-pairing defensemen, but they have a plethora of #3-6 defensemen. Smid, Petry, Schultz, Schultz, Whitney, Peckham all off the top of my head.
This is exactly right. While tallinder would be an upgrade on defence, offensive centres are an area of weakness, both on the roster and in the prospect pool.

A reasonable proposal nonetheless

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Old
11-27-2012, 11:28 PM
  #6
glenbuis
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Draft pick to me would have to be lowered to a fourth or lower though because in a good draft year the 2nd could easily be worth more than either player.

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Old
11-27-2012, 11:40 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Edmonton needs Gagner more than they need Tallinder. They'd be left with Horcoff at 2C.
Nailed it. While the Oilers could use another top 6 D, losing Gagner would be a far bigger impact. He may not be the ideal 2C in Edmonton down the road, but for now he's the best the Oilers have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glenbuis View Post
Draft pick to me would have to be lowered to a fourth or lower though because in a good draft year the 2nd could easily be worth more than either player.
Prospectitis at it's finest. How many 2nds turn into actual NHLers?

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Old
11-27-2012, 11:47 PM
  #8
glenbuis
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Thinking that NewJersey will finish around the middle of the pack, meaning the pick would be roughly 45th in a strong draft year. I think a team with a good scouting department could easily find something of greater value than either Gagner or Tallinder.

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Old
11-27-2012, 11:54 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenbuis View Post
Thinking that NewJersey will finish around the middle of the pack, meaning the pick would be roughly 45th in a strong draft year. I think a team with a good scouting department could easily find something of greater value than either Gagner or Tallinder.
Gagner was picked 6th overall. Weak draft year or not, a top 10 pick is expected to be an impact NHLer. Gagner is considered to be a dissapointment based on his position. You think the draft is so good and the scouting has improved so much that they will have better success with a 45th overall pick than they did with a 6th overall pick?

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Old
11-28-2012, 12:10 AM
  #10
glenbuis
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If u say that gagner was a disappointment as a sixth overall pick and i agree, what would reasonably expect to get for him with regards to a draft pick. Are there teams out there that would give you there 1st for him?

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11-28-2012, 12:26 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenbuis View Post
If u say that gagner was a disappointment as a sixth overall pick and i agree, what would reasonably expect to get for him with regards to a draft pick. Are there teams out there that would give you there 1st for him?
He's worth a mid-late first if a team was looking to deal him for futures (which Edmonton is definitely not). He's a center who can put up 40 points a year and play in a top six role, which is a pretty valuable commodity

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Old
11-28-2012, 12:41 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana Sandwiches View Post
I thought Edmonton's main problem was on defense.
Dubnyk's numbers with Smid - Petry as top Pair.
2.11GA .930 SV%

http://http://stats.hockeyanalysis.c...5v5&type=goals

Hall was most efective with Horcoff at centre. They faced the toughs

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Old
11-28-2012, 12:49 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilerbear View Post
Dubnyk's numbers with Smid - Petry as top Pair.
2.11GA .930 SV%

http://http://stats.hockeyanalysis.c...5v5&type=goals

Hall was most efective with Horcoff at centre. They faced the toughs
Link doesn't work

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Old
11-28-2012, 12:54 AM
  #14
lakai17
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Josefson + Urbom

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Old
11-28-2012, 01:39 AM
  #15
Yashintangibles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lakai17 View Post
Josefson + Urbom
You forgot Kovalchuk+ .

Josefson has the skills, hockey IQ and defence awareness to be a 2nd line center with premium PK duties and 2nd unit PP time. If somehow he could find magically a bit of a scoring touch, which is coming right now, but at the AHL level, he'd instantly get a shot as a 1st line center.

There's not even a chance that the Devils would straight up trade Josefson for Gagner. Urbom being one of the most NHL ready Devils prospects just makes this trade even more mind-boggling.

No offense.

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Old
11-28-2012, 02:26 AM
  #16
oilerbear
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenbuis View Post
Thinking that NewJersey will finish around the middle of the pack, meaning the pick would be roughly 45th in a strong draft year. I think a team with a good scouting department could easily find something of greater value than either Gagner or Tallinder.
Non of these guys are even close to Gagner in Production.
2011 draft
#5 Strome
#6 Zibanejad
#7 Schiefle
#8 Couturier best D forward in 2011-12

2010 draft:
#4 Johansen
#5 Niederreitter
#6 Connolly
#7 Skinner .7GPG @ 17 CHL 2nd best Goal Scorer in Draft
#8 burmistrov
#9 Granlund

2009 Draft
#5 Schenn
#7 Kadri
#8 Glennie
#10 Paajarvi

2008 draft
#7 wilson
#8 Boedker
#9 Bailey
#10 Hodgson
#11 Beech

2007 draft
#2 JVR
#3 Turris
#6 Gagner
#7 Voracek
#8 Hamill
#9 Couture
#11 B. Sutter

2006 draft
#6 Brassard
#7 Okposo
#8 Mueller
#9 Sheppard
#10 Frolik
#12 Little

2005 draft
#4 pouliot
#6 Brule
#7 Skille
#8 Seteguchi
#11 Kopitar

36 picks that could have been a #6.
lockout to lockout

Of these only 2 (kopitar 7 Skinner) have out produced Gagner.
3 are near him in production with better goal rate
Couture
Seatguchi
Okposo
2 are elite 2 way forwards.
Little
Couturier

2 of 36 clear ahead
5 of 36 a personal choice.
set-up 92% or all-round 84% are worse choices.


Centers under 25 in the game.
Gagner ranked 11th for G A Pt
Behind
Giroux (1rd 22) 1.19PPG
Stamkos (1rd 1) 1.18PPG
Tavares (1 Rd 1) .99PPG
Toews (1 rd #3) .97PPG

RNH (1RD 1) .84PPG
Sequin (1RD 2) .83PPG
J. Staal (1RD 2) .81PPG

Henrique (3RD 82) .69PPG
O'Rielly (2RD 33) .68PPG
Gagner ( 1RD 6) .63PPG
Stepan (2RD 51) .62PPG



So yeah!
good luck with that 45th pick.

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Old
11-28-2012, 02:58 AM
  #17
thadd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilerbear View Post
Dubnyk's numbers with Smid - Petry as top Pair.
2.11GA .930 SV%

http://http://stats.hockeyanalysis.c...5v5&type=goals

Hall was most efective with Horcoff at centre. They faced the toughs
These stats aren't the least bit surprising.

Smid and Petry were insanely effective last year. I don't care how good Justin Schultz is, he isn't going to be playing with Smid. Petry is already good with rushing the puck, as his offense develops a bit more they'll be even better. As they stand they're an elite shutdown pair.

As for this trade, no thanks.

Gagner is easily the second best center we've got right now unless we move Hall or Eberle to center. (not going to happen)

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Old
11-28-2012, 08:20 AM
  #18
bucks_oil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenbuis View Post
Thinking that NewJersey will finish around the middle of the pack, meaning the pick would be roughly 45th in a strong draft year. I think a team with a good scouting department could easily find something of greater value than either Gagner or Tallinder.
I'll bet you couldn't find a year... ANY YEAR... where there were 45 players drafted in ANY ROUND that amounted to more than Gagner. You will never find a draft cohort where the 45th best player became a 40-50 point 2C by 23 (and still with some potential for improvement... don't believe me? Take a gander on hockeydb at when his papa Dave Gagner broke out and let genetics be your guide)

So even if your assertion is that New Jersey's drafting is miles ahead of others... and I'm even willing to concede they are strong in this regard... it doesn't tilt the odds so much as to make it "easy to find something greater"

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Old
11-28-2012, 09:16 AM
  #19
WeridAl
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With N.Schultz, Smid and O.Klefbom or Marincin the Oilers don't have a need for Henrik Tallinder. If anything the Oilers need a gritty RHS D and Tallinder is not that and with his blood clot problems and age is he worth it. The Oilers also have Musil knocking at the door, although he could use a couple more year in the minors.

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Old
11-28-2012, 09:32 AM
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Ask yourself the question: gagner gets shipped off, who's the 2c?

There's your answer

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Old
11-28-2012, 09:37 AM
  #21
Cowbell232
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You forgot Kovalchuk+ .

Josefson has the skills, hockey IQ and defence awareness to be a 2nd line center with premium PK duties and 2nd unit PP time. If somehow he could find magically a bit of a scoring touch, which is coming right now, but at the AHL level, he'd instantly get a shot as a 1st line center.

There's not even a chance that the Devils would straight up trade Josefson for Gagner. Urbom being one of the most NHL ready Devils prospects just makes this trade even more mind-boggling.

No offense.
Urbom is also highly expendable to the Devils because there's a complete logjam at the D slot and he's likely to be completely leapfrogged by some younger guys, e.g., Jon Merrill.

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Old
11-28-2012, 09:55 AM
  #22
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Originally Posted by Banana Sandwiches View Post
I thought Edmonton's main problem was on defense.
We have Justin Schultz and our prospect pool is loaded with D men. A #2 center and size and physicality in the forward lineup are bigger needs.

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Old
11-28-2012, 10:00 AM
  #23
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I would probably do the original deal. would prefer Volch but I would bet Edmonton would prefer Tallinder

that said, Edmonton probably doesn't.

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Old
11-28-2012, 10:29 AM
  #24
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I would probably do the original deal. would prefer Volch but I would bet Edmonton would prefer Tallinder

that said, Edmonton probably doesn't.
Good chance Volch wouldn't waive his NTC to come to Edmonton, and Tallinder's age, injury history and contract would scare the Oilers off. The biggest problem is the Oilers have abundance of NHL D on the roster (some are not the greatest) and 3-4 quality prospect D coming up. Wouldn't make any sense to trade for a D, especially a LHS one.

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Old
11-28-2012, 10:49 AM
  #25
Yashintangibles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowbell232 View Post
Urbom is also highly expendable to the Devils because there's a complete logjam at the D slot and he's likely to be completely leapfrogged by some younger guys, e.g., Jon Merrill.
Indeed. I'd be totally ok to trade Urbom + Tallinder/Volchenkov for a decent winger.

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