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Old
11-27-2012, 10:44 AM
  #76
Killer B
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dellstrom View Post
You probably would see Krejci's numbers rise and Backstrom's fall, but not by a huge amount...

Krejci is a good defensively, he kills penalties in Claude's system. That counts for a lot. But he plays even strength with Lucic and Horton. Even on a defensive-minded team, that's a pretty offensive based line. The 2nd, 3rd, and 4th lines are MUCH more defensive-minded than the first. Especially with Chara usually on the ice at the same time as the first line, a lot of defensive responsibilities are taken away from them. Putting him on a more offensive-minded team and adding an elite winger, who, when on his game, has proven he's one of the best, will certainly boost his offensive totals... But Backstrom is in a completely different league than Krejci. I'm a Bruins fan and love Krejci to pieces but that's a ridiculous statement.

What's a ridiculous statement, comparing Looch or Horton to Ovi or Semin?

I never said Krecji was or is better that Backstrom, but I don't think there as far apart as some
here claim. I'm also saying that Krecji's numbers go up playing in Washington and Backstrom's
numbers drop playing in Boston. I base this belief on the following:

1st: They've been playing in two completely different systems... Backstrom has benefitted
from playing in a wide open system, while Krecji is responsible for playing in 3 zones (but
like every Bruin, defense is first).

2nd: From day 1, Backstrom has playing with guys like Ovechkin and Semin... Krecji was
developed slowly, working his way up the depth charts until an injury to Savard finally
gave him a shot at 1st line duties. In the last 4 years, Looch has scored 82 goals while
Ovi has 176... That equals some serious points in Backstrom's favor. I won't even get
into some of Krecji's other linemates over the years....

3rd: Boston's PP blows! Krecji isn't allowed to use his creativity at all (no one on Boston is...).
Everything is perimeter, trying to set up a point shot. This has left Boston with one of the
worst PP's in the league. Backstrom & company are deadly on the PP (Ovi / Backstrom / Semin,
with Green on the point = yikes!). Honestly... Look at the last 3-4 years, take out all powerplay
points from both players and see what you get.

You switch the 2 players and Krecji's number will go up (particularly his assist totals) and
Backstrom's number decline.

That's my opinion...

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11-27-2012, 10:49 AM
  #77
Oates2Neely
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killer B View Post
What's a ridiculous statement, comparing Looch or Horton to Ovi or Semin?

I never said Krecji was or is better that Backstrom, but I don't think there as far apart as some
here claim. I'm also saying that Krecji's numbers go up playing in Washington and Backstrom's
numbers drop playing in Boston. I base this belief on the following:

1st: They've been playing in two completely different systems... Backstrom has benefitted
from playing in a wide open system, while Krecji is responsible for playing in 3 zones (but
like every Bruin, defense is first).

2nd: From day 1, Backstrom has playing with guys like Ovechkin and Semin... Krecji was
developed slowly, working his way up the depth charts until an injury to Savard finally
gave him a shot at 1st line duties. In the last 4 years, Looch has scored 82 goals while
Ovi has 176... That equals some serious points in Backstrom's favor. I won't even get
into some of Krecji's other linemates over the years....

3rd: Boston's PP blows! Krecji isn't allowed to use his creativity at all (no one on Boston is...).
Everything is perimeter, trying to set up a point shot. This has left Boston with one of the
worst PP's in the league. Backstrom & company are deadly on the PP (Ovi / Backstrom / Semin,
with Green on the point = yikes!). Honestly... Look at the last 3-4 years, take out all powerplay
points from both players and see what you get.

You switch the 2 players and Krecji's number will go up (particularly his assist totals) and
Backstrom's number decline.

That's my opinion...
^ I completely agree

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11-27-2012, 11:18 AM
  #78
txpd
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last season the boston pp ranked 16th and the capitals 18th.
the season before boston was 20th and washington 16th.

where is this awesone washington pp?

in 2010-11 boston ranked 5th in goals for and washington was 19th. boston ranked 2nd in goals against and washington 4th. in 2011-12 boston ranked 3rd in goals for and washington 14th.

this idea that boston plays defense and doesnt score while the caps play wide open, caution to the wind hockey is a couple of years out of date.

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Old
11-27-2012, 12:17 PM
  #79
Zoidberg Jesus
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Seriously, it's been almost two calendar years since the Caps stopped playing offense-first hockey. Our offensive output in the season and a half since that switch is a full 30% lower than it was in the previous season and a half. Have people really not noticed this? And people still think Semin was on the same line as Backstrom and Ovechkin? Jeez.


Last edited by Zoidberg Jesus: 11-27-2012 at 12:25 PM.
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Old
11-27-2012, 01:49 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Ok, responding to you will make it sound like im bashing Backstrom (i'm not), but he had an impressive 09-10 season (100pts?) then followed it up with 65pts. Then he gets 44pts in 42 games and where supposed to assume that he'd score 100 again if he'd stayed healthy? It's called an 'unknown'. I HATE the "PPG" argument,, mostly used by Leaf & Oiler fans when pumping the tires of Hemsky & Lupul.

*Question: When did Hunter take over coaching duties?
Are your Lupuls and Hemskys career PPG+ players after 360+ regular season games? PPG for Backstrom is the norm. You're probably one of the people saying "well gee I don't know if Crosby can put up 100 points again, he only played 22 games since coming back, his 1.7 PPG over that span doesn't matter".

He was on pace for 86 points after playing half a season. That doesn't guarantee 100 points, or 86 points, but that's much more than a hot streak, especially given his history. 75-80 points is more than likely. And doing that on Hunter's dump and retreat team that made Ovechkin a 65 point player is more impressive than getting 100 on a team that actually cares about attacking.

Given that Julien is a more offensive coach than Hunter (and Boudreau in his last year and a half) and Boston has offensively capable and physical top 6 wingers I'd be comfortable saying Backstrom is a 90 point player with above average if not great all around game, if on a line with say Lucic and Horton/Peverley. Savard was a 90 point player for you after all.


Last edited by Halpysback: 11-27-2012 at 02:03 PM.
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Old
11-27-2012, 02:42 PM
  #81
Oates2Neely
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
last season the boston pp ranked 16th and the capitals 18th.
the season before boston was 20th and washington 16th.

where is this awesone washington pp?

in 2010-11 boston ranked 5th in goals for and washington was 19th. boston ranked 2nd in goals against and washington 4th. in 2011-12 boston ranked 3rd in goals for and washington 14th.

this idea that boston plays defense and doesnt score while the caps play wide open, caution to the wind hockey is a couple of years out of date.
& it's been a couple years since Backstrom scored over 70 points.. That's my point.

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11-27-2012, 02:47 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoidberg Jesus View Post
Seriously, it's been almost two calendar years since the Caps stopped playing offense-first hockey. Our offensive output in the season and a half since that switch is a full 30% lower than it was in the previous season and a half. Have people really not noticed this? And people still think Semin was on the same line as Backstrom and Ovechkin? Jeez.
Seriously, it's been almost two calender years since Backstrom broke 70pts

You guys are helping hammer home my point, Backstrom while still elite, has seen his points dip since Washington got away from an "all-out offensive" system. As did Ovechkin last season. It's normal, when you're coach cracks a whip & pushes the forwards to play all 200' of the ice, offensive numbers will dip a bit for said teams superstars. My only point here is that while I agree Backstrom > Krejci, it's not by a large margin as some here have suggested. IF Krejci were in a Boudreau offense, & Backstrom in a Julien offense, I believe Krejci would gain 10pts, while Backstrom could drop 10pts...closing the gap between their respective values.

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11-27-2012, 02:53 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Seriously, it's been almost two calender years since Backstrom broke 70pts

You guys are helping hammer home my point, Backstrom while still elite, has seen his points dip since Washington got away from an "all-out offensive" system. As did Ovechkin last season. It's normal, when you're coach cracks a whip & pushes the forwards to play all 200' of the ice, offensive numbers will dip a bit for said teams superstars. My only point here is that while I agree Backstrom > Krejci, it's not by a large margin as some here have suggested. IF Krejci were in a Boudreau offense, & Backstrom in a Julien offense, I believe Krejci would gain 10pts, while Backstrom could drop 10pts...closing the gap between their respective values.
Not breaking 70 points because he missed half the season isn't having his "points dip". Try again. He was scoring at close to the same rate he did in his offensive seasons. Did Crosby have his "points dip" to 37? He hasn't broken 70 points in 2 years either. Must be the system's fault, or he's just not as good as advertised.

The gap between Backstrom and Krejci is substantial. Elite 1C vs elite 2C/lower end 1C. Krejci has an amazing physical and defensive supporting cast as well and always gets top 6 caliber linemates.

The season before Backstrom was going through a huge slump which we're still not sure the total cause of, but believe it was a lingering wrist injury. If he kept playing that way there would be cause for legitimate concern, but his play last season when healthy and even after coming back from concussion was elite.

Given Backstrom's coaching the last two years Backstrom would get a boost under Julien if anything.

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11-27-2012, 03:04 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Not breaking 70 points because he missed half the season isn't having his "points dip". Try again. He was scoring at close to the same rate he did in his offensive seasons. Did Crosby have his "points dip" to 37? He hasn't broken 70 points in 2 years either. Must be the system's fault, or he's just not as good as advertised.

The gap between Backstrom and Krejci is substantial. Elite 1C vs elite 2C/lower end 1C. Krejci has an amazing physical and defensive supporting cast as well and always gets top 6 caliber linemates.

The season before Backstrom was going through a huge slump which we're still not sure the total cause of, but believe it was a lingering wrist injury. If he kept playing that way there would be cause for legitimate concern, but his play last season when healthy and even after coming back from concussion was elite.

Given Backstrom's coaching the last two years Backstrom would get a boost under Julien if anything.
I disagree. Take away Ovechkin, & force him into a defensive oriented system, & i dont think its too far fetched to say his points could dip by 10 over a season.

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11-27-2012, 03:44 PM
  #85
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Didn't realize how underrated Bäckström was around here.

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11-27-2012, 04:37 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
I disagree. Take away Ovechkin, & force him into a defensive oriented system, & i dont think its too far fetched to say his points could dip by 10 over a season.
Are you not getting anything we're saying? That's exactly the situation he was in before his concussion this year! Backstrom was playing in two defensive systems under Boudreau and Hunter that were even more restrictive than Boston's, while Ovechkin was on pace for less than 30 goals throughout the first half of the season. Ovie didn't get back into gear until after Christmas, just before Backstrom's concussion. And still, on Jan. 3, Backstrom was on pace for 91 points. If you put him on Boston's #3 offense with Lucic and Horton, I bet his scoring would've gone up.

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11-27-2012, 04:57 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
I disagree. Take away Ovechkin, & force him into a defensive oriented system, & i dont think its too far fetched to say his points could dip by 10 over a season.
i really think you should look again. backstrom does as well or better without ovechkin. its ovechkin that does better with backstrom.

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11-27-2012, 04:58 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by bottomofthefoodchain View Post
Didn't realize how underrated Bäckström was around here.
backstrom doesnt get a lot of respect

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Old
11-27-2012, 05:58 PM
  #89
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Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I thought Backstrom played more with MoJo and Semin last year then he did with Ovie. The playoffs last year normally was a line of Ovechkin-Laich-Brouwer and Semin-Backstrom-Mojo

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11-27-2012, 07:56 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by hb11xchamps View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I thought Backstrom played more with MoJo and Semin last year then he did with Ovie. The playoffs last year normally was a line of Ovechkin-Laich-Brouwer and Semin-Backstrom-Mojo
Those were the lines Hunter used once Nick returned from his concussion - so, the last 4 games of the regular season and the playoffs. Pre-concussion, Nick was almost exclusively with Ovie and Brouwer.


Last edited by Zoidberg Jesus: 11-27-2012 at 10:12 PM.
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11-27-2012, 08:01 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killer B View Post
What's a ridiculous statement, comparing Looch or Horton to Ovi or Semin?

I never said Krecji was or is better that Backstrom, but I don't think there as far apart as some
here claim. I'm also saying that Krecji's numbers go up playing in Washington and Backstrom's
numbers drop playing in Boston. I base this belief on the following:

1st: They've been playing in two completely different systems... Backstrom has benefitted
from playing in a wide open system, while Krecji is responsible for playing in 3 zones (but
like every Bruin, defense is first).
what team are you watching? washington has an extremely passive defensive system, id say washington's system limits offence more than the bruins does

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11-27-2012, 11:16 PM
  #92
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For the record, in 2010-2011 Backstrom didnt miss half the season when he but up65 pts. He played 77 games that year.

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11-27-2012, 11:18 PM
  #93
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I just thought that the lingerering slump you spoke of had anything to do with the new massive contract.

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11-28-2012, 02:06 AM
  #94
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Pretty sure he was playing with a broken thumb. No chance Boston gets Backstrom. They couldve drafted him. Worked out well pending further developement on the two picks Toronto gave up for Kessel.

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11-28-2012, 04:33 AM
  #95
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Hamilton has to be in it for WAS to at least consider for maybe 1 minute.

Horrible deal for Washington.

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11-28-2012, 04:54 AM
  #96
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Pretty sure he was playing with a broken thumb. No chance Boston gets Backstrom. They couldve drafted him. Worked out well pending further developement on the two picks Toronto gave up for Kessel.
How could they have drafted him? They tried to trade up to pick him instead of Kessel but Washington wouldn't do it, they showed the conversation between them right on tv on the draft special.

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11-28-2012, 04:58 AM
  #97
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Hamilton has to be in it for WAS to at least consider for maybe 1 minute.

Horrible deal for Washington.
Care to explain why?

It looks fair value wise to me, I just don't think that Washington will want to give up the best player in the deal, I also think Boston is happy with what they have and wouldn't be looking to do this deal.

Value wise I think it may even favor the Caps, it just isn't desirable to trade the best player for players who are lesser even if you are getting some very good players and a good pick.

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11-28-2012, 06:12 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
I disagree. Take away Ovechkin, & force him into a defensive oriented system, & i dont think its too far fetched to say his points could dip by 10 over a season.
Washington plays in a defensive system. I like Krejci but Backstrom is an elite center. He scared me everytime he had the puck in the playoffs against NY even though I'm sure he was not 100 percent. I wouldn't be surprised if backstroke numbers went up or stayed the same given Bostons offense depth.

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11-28-2012, 07:26 AM
  #99
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Care to explain why?

It looks fair value wise to me, I just don't think that Washington will want to give up the best player in the deal, I also think Boston is happy with what they have and wouldn't be looking to do this deal.

Value wise I think it may even favor the Caps, it just isn't desirable to trade the best player for players who are lesser even if you are getting some very good players and a good pick.
Because Backstrom is a top 10 center in the league currently.

The Caps play bad when he is out of the lineup, as proven last year.

And Boston won't do either if they have to include Hamilton, forgot to iclude that in my post above.

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11-28-2012, 07:37 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by The Sweetness View Post
Washington plays in a defensive system. I like Krejci but Backstrom is an elite center. He scared me everytime he had the puck in the playoffs against NY even though I'm sure he was not 100 percent. I wouldn't be surprised if backstroke numbers went up or stayed the same given Bostons offense depth.
Nobody is debating wether or not Backstrom is elite, everybody agrees he is.

The debate is wether he would maintain his point totals in a defensive system. It's been 2 years since Backstrom broke 70 points, is that a coincidence that thats when Washington switched from "agressive" offense, to a more restricted offense? No, clearly Backstrom struggled with the adjustment as his points show. As did Ovechkin.

There's no telling what Oates will impliment this season, most likely he will let Backstrom & Ovechkin roam freely & use their offensive talents.

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