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Old
11-26-2012, 03:22 PM
  #901
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
As, I've shown before, using league equivalences that compare what they'd both be expected to do for points per game next year in the big leagues, on average of course, is about the same... with Burmi having a ridiculously unstable low 4% shooting percentage, and his main linemates not doing so great (Maxwell, Jaffray, Gagnon, Tremblay and Whitmore)with them also having low for their norm sh% (exception Whitmore).
On top of this, Burmistrov already is accustomed to the NHL game speed, pace and grit, and this extrapolation didn't take in mind the higher level of competition in the AHL (which nhlnumbers.com had estimated a change of 20% which is quite severe).
Also, I know it might be a bit humbling to us Jets fans, but most scouts do place Burmistrov higher in both the now and ceiling department. I even recently inquired personally (via twitter lol) to Pronman at Hockey Prospectus, and he was on this wavelength, but thought that the gap is close enough that some scouts differ on this.
Personally though I think it's any man's spot. I can see either one of them being able to pull above the other, both short term and long term, and either one of them would have to earn it. I will give the short term advantage to Burmistrov though due to experience and past with being able to produce at much higher level of competition.

(sorry about the length but I probably won't be able reply anything for a while)
Well I have a hard time agreeing with the scouts you have talked to on this one. I have yet to see anythig from Burmistrov that would put his ceiling on par with that of Mark's. The only thing he does clearly better than Mark is skate and that gap is closing with the strides that Scheifele is making with his skating. Alex is older and has a massive amount of NHL/Pro experience on his side so he should be the better and more advanced player at this point in time, the fact that this gap seems to be decreasing should be troubling for Burmistrov. Mark has the wider range of offensive tools and more importantly he has the brain to put them together. Any physical edge that Burmistrov has is diminishing by the day and until he can show some signs of being able to riel in his game and put his tools together he runs a very real risk of getting passed on the depth chart in the next year or two by Scheifele.

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11-26-2012, 04:13 PM
  #902
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Well I have a hard time agreeing with the scouts you have talked to on this one. I have yet to see anythig from Burmistrov that would put his ceiling on par with that of Mark's. The only thing he does clearly better than Mark is skate and that gap is closing with the strides that Scheifele is making with his skating. Alex is older and has a massive amount of NHL/Pro experience on his side so he should be the better and more advanced player at this point in time, the fact that this gap seems to be decreasing should be troubling for Burmistrov. Mark has the wider range of offensive tools and more importantly he has the brain to put them together. Any physical edge that Burmistrov has is diminishing by the day and until he can show some signs of being able to riel in his game and put his tools together he runs a very real risk of getting passed on the depth chart in the next year or two by Scheifele.
Burmi is listed at 6'1 and 180 lbs, but he looked lighter than that to me last year. I wonder whether a little more beef would inspire him to play less of a perimeter game. Scheifele put on the weight and it looks to have helped his overall game a lot.

edit:Oops, I see we are consolidating the Burmi talk so I'll move this to the ice caps thread


Last edited by scelaton: 11-26-2012 at 04:22 PM.
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Old
11-26-2012, 06:46 PM
  #903
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Old
11-26-2012, 07:33 PM
  #904
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I've said for a while that I believe pairing Kane with Scheifele makes sense for the Jets. Scheifeles game and strengths pair well with Kanes imo. Scheifele has made 2 wingers produce the past 2 years and I don't think it is a coincidence.

We have one shoot first center and one more of the distributing the puck center type , and if you also pair Wheeler with Jokinen you balance the lines well as I see it , as Wheeler is really good as big winger that can and does generate a lot of assists.

This leaves some strong players to complete the lines, Ladd , Little , maybe Burmistrov as RW on the Scheifele line ...but probably Little. This is presuming of course that Mark is ready and from what I see , I think he is to be honest.
I kinda like the idea of Kane with Scheifle also. You guys know those little moments in a game that you rewind the PVR...there was one of those for me during preseason last year. I can't remember the team or defenseman, but someone took a shot at Scheifle at the end of a play behind the net. Kane was immediately in his face with ill intent. Made me kinda think there was a bit of a "don't touch our young guy, or I will Matt Cooke you" moment coming out of Kane. Even though he is only 20 or 21, maybe riding wing for a guy like Scheifle might mature Kane a bit.

Am I reaching with that thought process?

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11-26-2012, 07:55 PM
  #905
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Originally Posted by TCsmyth View Post
(...)

Kane was immediately in his face with ill intent. Made me kinda think there was a bit of a "don't touch our young guy, or I will Matt Cooke you" moment coming out of Kane. Even though he is only 20 or 21, maybe riding wing for a guy like Scheifle might mature Kane a bit.

Am I reaching with that thought process?
Not in my mind, you're not: I could see it happening. Not sure why, but I could definitely see those two having some chemistry - Camara's got a similar style to Kane (though nowhere near as fast/athletic) and the chemistry and camaraderie between the slick centre and crash/bang winger works very well.

Kane loves to score, Scheifele loves to feed people that like to score (even though he's developing his inner sniper ), and they both want to win badly.

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11-26-2012, 08:18 PM
  #906
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Pairing the most selfish goal scoring winger (not a bad thing mind you ) and the ever improving , elite hockey sense , unselfish centreman is to me a match made in hockey heaven .

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11-26-2012, 08:35 PM
  #907
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Originally Posted by TCsmyth View Post
I kinda like the idea of Kane with Scheifle also. You guys know those little moments in a game that you rewind the PVR...there was one of those for me during preseason last year. I can't remember the team or defenseman, but someone took a shot at Scheifle at the end of a play behind the net. Kane was immediately in his face with ill intent. Made me kinda think there was a bit of a "don't touch our young guy, or I will Matt Cooke you" moment coming out of Kane. Even though he is only 20 or 21, maybe riding wing for a guy like Scheifle might mature Kane a bit.

Am I reaching with that thought process?
Quote:
Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
Not in my mind, you're not: I could see it happening. Not sure why, but I could definitely see those two having some chemistry - Camara's got a similar style to Kane (though nowhere near as fast/athletic) and the chemistry and camaraderie between the slick centre and crash/bang winger works very well.

Kane loves to score, Scheifele loves to feed people that like to score (even though he's developing his inner sniper ), and they both want to win badly.
It's nice to have different styles and I could see this working. thankfully Kane is a few years older because his hockey IQ is lower than Mark's so the experience probably readies him to be ready to mesh with mark. I remember Messier talking about Kane last year and how he (Mess) was similar at the same point in his career and Mark said what got him to the next level was being paired with Anderson and finding chemistry, also learning how to do the give and goes and specifically what to do without the puck. He said he felt that was the next stage for Kane and he was sure it would happen. I remember I was quite suprised at first then pretty blown away when Mess and Andy started getting it together and once they did they were unstoppable when they were on. It never really mattered who the other winger on their line was they were a two man unit. I was a young season ticket holder in Edmonton back then and Mess and Andy got very sheltered minutes because the other teams were going crazy trying to stop Gretz.
Back to our boys, The nice thing about Schief is that he is excellent at his positioning and pouncing on rebounds (naturally opprotunistic) and both those skills come in handy with a guy like Kane who cuts a wide swath and shoots allot. Honestly Mark is the kind of guy I can see fitting in pretty well with any of our top 6 players.

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11-27-2012, 12:12 AM
  #908
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Originally Posted by TCsmyth View Post
I kinda like the idea of Kane with Scheifle also. You guys know those little moments in a game that you rewind the PVR...there was one of those for me during preseason last year. I can't remember the team or defenseman, but someone took a shot at Scheifle at the end of a play behind the net. Kane was immediately in his face with ill intent. Made me kinda think there was a bit of a "don't touch our young guy, or I will Matt Cooke you" moment coming out of Kane. Even though he is only 20 or 21, maybe riding wing for a guy like Scheifle might mature Kane a bit.

Am I reaching with that thought process?
I agree, I think putting Kane in a mentoring role will help him mature both as a person and as a player.

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11-27-2012, 12:19 PM
  #909
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Well I have a hard time agreeing with the scouts you have talked to on this one. I have yet to see anythig from Burmistrov that would put his ceiling on par with that of Mark's. The only thing he does clearly better than Mark is skate and that gap is closing with the strides that Scheifele is making with his skating. Alex is older and has a massive amount of NHL/Pro experience on his side so he should be the better and more advanced player at this point in time, the fact that this gap seems to be decreasing should be troubling for Burmistrov. Mark has the wider range of offensive tools and more importantly he has the brain to put them together. Any physical edge that Burmistrov has is diminishing by the day and until he can show some signs of being able to riel in his game and put his tools together he runs a very real risk of getting passed on the depth chart in the next year or two by Scheifele.
Everyone needs to take a breath...

Burmi right now is where Blake Wheeler was after 17 games last year.

Admittedly, he isn't scoring, but he is putting the puck on net and making plays in both ends the points will come. Trust me.

I posted this elsewhere, but I will continue to post it everywhere until I am right. Burmi, Maxwell & Machacek have combined for 133 SOG, but only have 6 goals to show for it. That cannot and will not continue much longer.

As for the Scheifele / Burmi comparison...

I am not sure where either of them will top out.



Sheifele vs Burmi:




Burmi

Based on what I've seen, I am very comfortable saying Burmi will top out a little higher than Bryan Little. They currently score at similar rates (Little got way more TOI), plus Burmi carries slightly better defensive value, not that Little is a slouch. If Burmi can add some mass and grow as an offensive player, I could see him being an OK number 1C or a very solid #2 capable of tough minutes. Then again, I am not 100% sold on him as a centre. #1 or #2RW may be in the cards for him as well.

Scheifele

Scheifele on the other hand has shown plus plus offensive awareness, but I think he has a lot more to prove. We don't know how his defensive game will carry forward or how he will handle the speed of the NHL, but I did think he looked good as a possession player in his short NHL stint last year (and everywhere else).

Scheif has long been able to use his size against OHLers, that hasn't carried over yet either, of course it may down the line. Scheif appears to be a nice PP option possibly on the top unit, this is something I haven't seen from Burmi to date. I don't know that Scheif will ever be an elite 1st line centre, but he has the look of an OK #1 or very good #2.


I like both players, but the more I see from Scheifele, the more I like him.

If forced to pick one as our future #1C, I'd probably lean toward Scheifele, but Burmi is already a darn good and very valuable player. Burmi could / should be a very nice option on the 2nd line down the road and I still think he has 1st line upside. Burmi's plus plus defensive value shouldn't be overlooked.

Ultimately, I am glad we have both these kids. They have different tools, but their abilities nicely compliment each other. I hope they both continue to develop and one of the (either one) turns into a bonified #1C. We need one of them to step up.

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11-27-2012, 12:25 PM
  #910
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Assuming there is a is a 2014-15 season and none of the current core is traded, I think our top 6 will look like this:

Kane / Scheifele / Wheeler - 1st PP and if Noel is the coach, heavy O zone starts

Ladd / Little / Burmi - Some PK and if Noel is the coach, matched up vs opposition's best.

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11-27-2012, 01:27 PM
  #911
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Everyone needs to take a breath...

Burmi right now is where Blake Wheeler was after 17 games last year.

Admittedly, he isn't scoring, but he is putting the puck on net and making plays in both ends the points will come. Trust me.

I posted this elsewhere, but I will continue to post it everywhere until I am right. Burmi, Maxwell & Machacek have combined for 133 SOG, but only have 6 goals to show for it. That cannot and will not continue much longer.

As for the Scheifele / Burmi comparison...

I am not sure where either of them will top out.



Sheifele vs Burmi:




Burmi

Based on what I've seen, I am very comfortable saying Burmi will top out a little higher than Bryan Little. They currently score at similar rates (Little got way more TOI), plus Burmi carries slightly better defensive value, not that Little is a slouch. If Burmi can add some mass and grow as an offensive player, I could see him being an OK number 1C or a very solid #2 capable of tough minutes. Then again, I am not 100% sold on him as a centre. #1 or #2RW may be in the cards for him as well.

Scheifele

Scheifele on the other hand has shown plus plus offensive awareness, but I think he has a lot more to prove. We don't know how his defensive game will carry forward or how he will handle the speed of the NHL, but I did think he looked good as a possession player in his short NHL stint last year (and everywhere else).

Scheif has long been able to use his size against OHLers, that hasn't carried over yet either, of course it may down the line. Scheif appears to be a nice PP option possibly on the top unit, this is something I haven't seen from Burmi to date. I don't know that Scheif will ever be an elite 1st line centre, but he has the look of an OK #1 or very good #2.


I like both players, but the more I see from Scheifele, the more I like him.

If forced to pick one as our future #1C, I'd probably lean toward Scheifele, but Burmi is already a darn good and very valuable player. Burmi could / should be a very nice option on the 2nd line down the road and I still think he has 1st line upside. Burmi's plus plus defensive value shouldn't be overlooked.

Ultimately, I am glad we have both these kids. They have different tools, but their abilities nicely compliment each other. I hope they both continue to develop and one of the (either one) turns into a bonified #1C. We need one of them to step up.
nice post Truck

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Old
11-27-2012, 02:53 PM
  #912
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nice post Truck
x2.

Agree ps241

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11-27-2012, 06:47 PM
  #913
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On The Edge: Road to the Mem Cup is on SNET right now.. Sutter had a talking to about worrying about not scoring goals. Coach said the Jets drafted him because he's hard to play against, not because he scores goals. I think I'd like to see both

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11-27-2012, 06:58 PM
  #914
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On The Edge: Road to the Mem Cup is on SNET right now. Sutter had a talking to about worrying about not scoring goals. Coach said the Jets drafted him because he's hard to play against, not because he scores goals. I think I'd like to see both
I really liked the first episode. Some intense behind the scenes stuff for junior hockey and its renewed my interest in the Blades. Funny about Sutter, haven't seen much from this year to suggest he's trying too hard to score. Apparently, HF regular Renegade Stylings makes a background appearance or two.

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11-27-2012, 09:13 PM
  #915
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On The Edge: Road to the Mem Cup is on SNET right now.. Sutter had a talking to about worrying about not scoring goals. Coach said the Jets drafted him because he's hard to play against, not because he scores goals. I think I'd like to see both
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Originally Posted by Tintin's Ghost View Post
I really liked the first episode. Some intense behind the scenes stuff for junior hockey and its renewed my interest in the Blades. Funny about Sutter, haven't seen much from this year to suggest he's trying too hard to score. Apparently, HF regular Renegade Stylings makes a background appearance or two.
Just watching it now and it is really well done.

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11-27-2012, 10:06 PM
  #916
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Everyone needs to take a breath...

Burmi right now is where Blake Wheeler was after 17 games last year.

Admittedly, he isn't scoring, but he is putting the puck on net and making plays in both ends the points will come. Trust me.

I posted this elsewhere, but I will continue to post it everywhere until I am right. Burmi, Maxwell & Machacek have combined for 133 SOG, but only have 6 goals to show for it. That cannot and will not continue much longer.

As for the Scheifele / Burmi comparison...

I am not sure where either of them will top out.



Sheifele vs Burmi:




Burmi

Based on what I've seen, I am very comfortable saying Burmi will top out a little higher than Bryan Little. They currently score at similar rates (Little got way more TOI), plus Burmi carries slightly better defensive value, not that Little is a slouch. If Burmi can add some mass and grow as an offensive player, I could see him being an OK number 1C or a very solid #2 capable of tough minutes. Then again, I am not 100% sold on him as a centre. #1 or #2RW may be in the cards for him as well.

Scheifele

Scheifele on the other hand has shown plus plus offensive awareness, but I think he has a lot more to prove. We don't know how his defensive game will carry forward or how he will handle the speed of the NHL, but I did think he looked good as a possession player in his short NHL stint last year (and everywhere else).

Scheif has long been able to use his size against OHLers, that hasn't carried over yet either, of course it may down the line. Scheif appears to be a nice PP option possibly on the top unit, this is something I haven't seen from Burmi to date. I don't know that Scheif will ever be an elite 1st line centre, but he has the look of an OK #1 or very good #2.


I like both players, but the more I see from Scheifele, the more I like him.

If forced to pick one as our future #1C, I'd probably lean toward Scheifele, but Burmi is already a darn good and very valuable player. Burmi could / should be a very nice option on the 2nd line down the road and I still think he has 1st line upside. Burmi's plus plus defensive value shouldn't be overlooked.

Ultimately, I am glad we have both these kids. They have different tools, but their abilities nicely compliment each other. I hope they both continue to develop and one of the (either one) turns into a bonified #1C. We need one of them to step up.
Good post. The only thing that I would object to is the bolded, From what I have seen this is the first year that he really has asseted himself physically in large part to him filling out. Prior to this year he relied more on his awareness, smarts and skill.

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11-27-2012, 11:50 PM
  #917
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Good post. The only thing that I would object to is the bolded, From what I have seen this is the first year that he really has asseted himself physically in large part to him filling out. Prior to this year he relied more on his awareness, smarts and skill.
His physical game really has taken a big step forward.

I was thinking more in terms of reach and corner battles. He was alright in that area last yr. No doubt he is far stronger now.

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11-28-2012, 12:12 AM
  #918
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Lowry had 2 assists for a win over the Wheaties and Sutter had an assist and was +2 ( ) in a win over the Hurricanes. Not bad at all.

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11-28-2012, 10:38 AM
  #919
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His physical game really has taken a big step forward.

I was thinking more in terms of reach and corner battles. He was alright in that area last yr. No doubt he is far stronger now.
His improved skating is also a reason for his improved physicality . He gets there quicker , he doesn't have to worry about getting back into a good or strong defensive position as much as he knows he can cover ground better. Really notice this contributing to his improved physical play and anticipate this building as he continues to improve and build on his skating.

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11-28-2012, 10:50 AM
  #920
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What's up with Lukas Sutter this year? 3 goals and 3 assists, 6 points in 25 games. Horrible numbers for a guy who scored 28 goals last year.

Not exactly the production you'd want from a 2nd round, 39th overall pick.

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11-28-2012, 10:56 AM
  #921
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What's up with Lukas Sutter this year? 3 goals and 3 assists, 6 points in 25 games. Horrible numbers for a guy who scored 28 goals last year.

Not exactly the production you'd want from a 2nd round, 39th overall pick.
Judging from what others are saying about the Road to the Memorial Cup show (I have it on the PVR but haven't watched), I think his problem is that he's trying too hard to score. I guess he was worried about not scoring and the coach re-assured him that we drafted him because he was hard to play against, not because he's a goal scorer.

I'm hoping he improves, yesterday was a huge positive.

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11-28-2012, 12:14 PM
  #922
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What's up with Lukas Sutter this year? 3 goals and 3 assists, 6 points in 25 games. Horrible numbers for a guy who scored 28 goals last year.

Not exactly the production you'd want from a 2nd round, 39th overall pick.
I've seen him play live three times this year. Small sample size, yes. Coach Lorne Molleken does not deploy Sutter for any offensive duties, strictly the shutdown center guy. Big role but purely defensive. Sutter is aggressive (couple times continued to needle the guy he was checking with elbows instead of advancing the play up) and is great on faceoffs. I wonder why he doesn't see some PP time for o-zone draws given his consistency with faceoffs.

Also, he's not terribly fast. So, he's mostly in a checking role and when the play does open up neither he nor his linemates have the speed to win the transition. He's not bad but does not appear to drive the play at all when he is out there. Blades only iced 16 skaters last night due to injuries, not sure if they're calling some guys up. If McColgan is out for extended period then maybe Sutter moves up to 1C. I think he would bypass 2C b/c that has been occupied by 16-year old Matt Revel who isn't really ready for 1C duties. If up another line or two he'll join wingers who can score so he would likely see an increase in PPG.

And he's a Sutter so he can fight. And often does so.

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11-28-2012, 12:18 PM
  #923
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I've seen him play live three times this year. Small sample size, yes. Coach Lorne Molleken does not deploy Sutter for any offensive duties, strictly the shutdown center guy. Big role but purely defensive. Sutter is aggressive (couple times continued to needle the guy he was checking with elbows instead of advancing the play up) and is great on faceoffs. I wonder why he doesn't see some PP time for o-zone draws given his consistency with faceoffs.

Also, he's not terribly fast. So, he's mostly in a checking role and when the play does open up neither he nor his linemates have the speed to win the transition. He's not bad but does not appear to drive the play at all when he is out there. Blades only iced 16 skaters last night due to injuries, not sure if they're calling some guys up. If McColgan is out for extended period then maybe Sutter moves up to 1C. I think he would bypass 2C b/c that has been occupied by 16-year old Matt Revel who isn't really ready for 1C duties. If up another line or two he'll join wingers who can score so he would likely see an increase in PPG.

And he's a Sutter so he can fight. And often does so.
I believe Sutter started the year on the first line and top PP unit.

Goals never came and he was slowly pushed down to the 3rd and 4th lines.

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11-28-2012, 02:04 PM
  #924
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A little Bobbie Mac love for our boy : @TSNBobMcKenzie: In a perfect, all best players available world, CAN's first line would Huberdeau-RNH-Scheifele.

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11-28-2012, 02:14 PM
  #925
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Originally Posted by jetkarma View Post
A little Bobbie Mac love for our boy : @TSNBobMcKenzie: In a perfect, all best players available world, CAN's first line would Huberdeau-RNH-Scheifele.
That could potentially be an incredible line if they were to click.

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