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Phoenix LXVI: Get Your Kicks On Thread LXVI

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Old
11-28-2012, 10:30 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by GordonGraham View Post
Even with the new council/mayor?
Good point. I had overlooked that important variable.

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11-28-2012, 10:30 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Thomas L View Post
I agree the referendum is doubtful unless Jones gets help from the tax initiative people. The number of signatures is considerably higher due to the presidential election.

Will be interesting to see if GWI actually does anything.

CF: Even if the GWI did win a case on the gift clause, how would the agreement be affected?
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Originally Posted by CasualFan View Post
Most likely, the plaintiff party (GWI or other) would seek injunctive relief during the next 30 days while the ordinance is dormant. (Because there was not sufficient support for the emergency clause, the ordinance allowing the city manager to execute the agreement cannot be signed until approx 12/27/12*). If injunction was granted, the city would be prohibited from signing the agreement until the verdict was entered (could be years). If it was found that the agreement was in violation of the Gift Clause, it would be void.

A referendum effort absent appropriate funding will likely fail again. A ballot drive with appropriate funding will likely succeed again. In a general sense, the timing is also slightly better for petition circulators, as the holidays will likely have more residents out and about compared to summer vacation season.

I'm most curious to see if any wildcards come into play. There is quite a bit of political capital on the table here waiting to be seized. An astutely advised new council member or mayor could gain wide recognition by attaching their name (and donor base) to a referendum effort. Nothing astute has ever happened in Glendale as far as I can tell though, so I'm not suggesting such an event will actually occur.

The next 30 days will be fun.

*Note: I don't think Glendale uses a "first reading, finally past" governance structure meaning this item is considered finally past based upon the vote last night. Some municipalities require a final passage 7 days later.

Fugu, I believe the BK docs indicated that Moyes requested $12MM per year; $6MM from Glendale and $6MM from Westgate merchants.
Do I recall correctly that if the AMF was successfully challenged that in the Agreement, the clauses state that if found unlawful or violates current or future law(s), that the remaining portion the agreement remains and only the AMF is void?

My apologies, I'm on the road and don't have the saved-docs/favorites/shortcuts lapper with me.

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Old
11-28-2012, 10:35 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Simerc View Post
Won't you get hip to this timely tip:
When you make that Arizona trip
Get your kicks on thread sixty-six.
Not bad, not bad at all. Billy Bragg re-wrote it, called the A13, while the original, performed by Nat King Cole's been covered by everyone from the Stones in 64 to the Brian Setzer Orchestra, most recently Glenn Frey, formerly of the Eagles just months ago..... so, now that we know the history of the threads title, move along plz.... and yes, Im aware as well that Depeche Mode also had a version, featured on the soundtrack from the movie Earth Girls are Easy, so lets not cue the jokes about Joyce Clark et al down in Glendale and just pretend we did.

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Old
11-28-2012, 10:48 AM
  #79
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Lets assume the following happens:

1- Jamison and the current council sign the lease
2- Jamison buys the team from the NHL
3- The team as owned by Jamison starts playing

Now based on the following from the lease agreement:

19.1 Team Owner Remedies.
19.1.1 For City Default. Following a City Default, the Team Owner shall, in addition to all other remedies at law and in equity, have the right to seek compensatory damages, but not indirect damages or punitive damages (which are in any event prohibited against the City under Arizona law), arising out of such City Default


19.2 Arena Manager Remedies.
19.2.2 For City Default. Following a City Default, the Arena Manager shall, in addition to all other remedies at law and in equity, have the right to seek compensatory damages, but not indirect damages or damages punitive (which are in any event prohibited against the City under Arizona law), arising out of such City Default.


What is the worst that can happen to the CoG if the newly appointed council decides at some time in the future they just don't want to pay Jamison the AMF? Would the compensatory damages be equal the the total AMF that Jamison was to receive over the 20 years or is it less? What if the CoG claims BK?

Just wondering what happens if the new CoG council just decides to not honor the agreement at some future time.

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Old
11-28-2012, 10:51 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by preissingg View Post
Given what you, as a knowledgeable Coyotes fan, have just described here, why were Yotes fans celebrating last night's COG vote?
The response should have ended with a


Last edited by Killion: 11-28-2012 at 11:00 AM. Reason: .... not req'd. carry on.
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Old
11-28-2012, 10:52 AM
  #81
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Could Glendale (Arizona) be next:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...ay-afloat.html

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11-28-2012, 11:03 AM
  #82
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Pretty sure Jan. 31 was the date included in the agreement which I believe was finalized before they were sure whether or not they'd maintain a pro-coyotes majority in the council. IIRC, the new council will take their seats two weeks sooner than that date. So, more like 54 days, I suppose. However, I don't think this agreement can actually be signed in less than thirty days from today. Haha.

It would appear that if this is going to close before the new council is seated, it'll need to be between December 28th and January 15th? Unless I've misunderstood.
I don't really get the ins and outs of AZ politics, but I was pretty sure that Skeete said and Tindall agreed that this could be signed today. I think it was after the 1st vote but before the 2nd vote, Scruggs asked the question. Anyone understand the same or am I way off? I didn't hear a 30 day period, I definitely heard "tomorrow" (today).

What am I understanding wrong, some part of it or all of it?

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Old
11-28-2012, 11:07 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
What? Glendale is filled with hockey fans in every corner of the city. So this could turn out good.

All jokes aside, fact is it wouldnt really work if a franchise doesnt profit. They say its bad ownership, but if you think about it, if a business doesnt really prove to be great then why invest on it? That maybe the underlying reason why they've been "screwed by 'bad' owners".

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11-28-2012, 11:08 AM
  #84
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CommissionerG Link - Sidebar Amusement

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Originally Posted by CommissionerG View Post
Fun stuff...

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Old
11-28-2012, 11:19 AM
  #85
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Did I hear correctly that GJ still needs another 30-60 days to buy the team? If he has all the money place.. what's the hold up?

Was GJ at the meeting yesterday?

Was he asked about his investors or did COG not bother to ask?

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11-28-2012, 11:20 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by JMT21 View Post
Did I hear correctly that GJ still needs another 30-60 days to buy the team? If he has all the money place.. what's the hold up?

Was GJ at the meeting yesterday?

Was he asked about his investors or did COG not bother to ask?
Oh, he was asked alright. And his answer was a blunt "no I will not name them".

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11-28-2012, 11:21 AM
  #87
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Kindly refrain from fan base bashing. As in immediately!

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11-28-2012, 11:25 AM
  #88
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Oh, he was asked alright. And his answer was a blunt "no I will not name them".
Imaginary friends have the right to be named!

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11-28-2012, 11:34 AM
  #89
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Did I hear correctly that GJ still needs another 30-60 days to buy the team? If he has all the money place.. what's the hold up?
No idea, but ya, thats what he said. 30-60 days to close, still refused to name who it was the COG was jumping into bed with despite directly being asked by Mayor Scruggs. A few ways to interpret that. Either he's still in total flux, hasnt secured the financing and cant until the agreement with Glendales signed, cleared every possible hurdle & potential challenge, his backers refusing to pay dime one until all of the issues are resolved or; his backers are controversial, a combination of IEH, Matthew Hulsizer & the Tohono band amongst others or; come up with whatever other possible scenario youd care to imagine?

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Old
11-28-2012, 11:41 AM
  #90
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Valid. Ha! That's rich.

Let me provide you with some answers that will probably meet your criteria for valid responses.

Alright, let me put on my preissingg hat and give this a whirl...

There is no vein to be tapped for hockey fans in the desert. Hockey is unnatural in any area without steady snowfall and frigid temperatures. Expanding the National Hockey League beyond Canada's border should only include a very select few American cities worthy of Canada's game. Cities like Buffalo, New York, Boston, Chicago(but only when they are winning), Philadelphia, Pittsburgh(but only when they are winning), DC(again, only good teams), Detroit, and Minneapolis. Expansion to places like San Jose, Los Angeles, Anaheim, Phoenix, Colorado, St. Louis, Ohio, Nashville, Atlanta, Florida, and Carolina is an endeavor bound to fail eventually, and completely.

There is absolutely no potential whatsoever in Phoenix or any other market in warmer states like California, Texas, Florida, etc.

Further the state of the US economy is now as it will always be and we shall never see a return to the climate that fostered much of this expansion to begin with. Places like Phoenix, which is still reeling from the housing collapse will never recover, may eventually bankrupt, and will more than likely be abandoned by their inhabitants and return to their natural, god given state of barren wasteland. As they should.

Good start so far?
You do know your post is going to be taken seriously, don't you? Just wait, you'll see.

Because you've just reposted the typical argument one segment of the population posts on a regular basis.


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Old
11-28-2012, 11:50 AM
  #91
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Policemen, firemen and librarians are going to lose their jobs in a few weeks? And they can escape this fate by helping in an effort to refer the Jamison deal to the ballot? Are you sure about that? I feel like I'd probably have heard about that by now if it were true. Then again, a lot does get passed me.
RT we all know Glendale will have no choice but to cut some personel in the near future because of their financials obligations. Now it will indeed be interesting to see how those people who voted for the tax increase, mainly to save jobs, will react when cuts happen.

I mean COG had two options. #1 - Turn down the Coyotes and save personel cuts or do less of those OR #2 -Accept Jamison deal and make more personel and direct services to citizens.

The tax increase was needed with and without the Coyotes.

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11-28-2012, 11:52 AM
  #92
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I finished the video and here's what stuck out to me, in no particular order:

- Effective Date of the agreement will be a significant fact. Ordinances without emergency clauses cannot be acted upon for 30 days. As soon as that 30 days is up, the agreement may be effected which initiates the binding language @ 3.1 and challenge language @ 18.
Background on this: the agreement is structured with two key events: 1) effective date of the agreement 2) fulfillment of the closing conditions. Once the agreement goes into effect (whenever the city signs after the 30 day referendum window) they are bound to the terms unless JIG fails to close the sale with the NHL prior to Jan 30, 2013. From a city perspective, you want to share the cost of a challenge which is incentive to effectuate but you don't want to be bound to a deal prior to JIG proving they can close, which is disincentive. It will be interesting to see what they do.

- Scruggs asked Jamison point blank to name his investors. He declined. Giving a couple hundred million to unknown parties is either incredibly hilarious or one of the biggest fiduciary failures in governance history, depending on how serious you take this matter.

- Scruggs asked Jamison if he was going to contract with LLCs featuring former Glendale city employees as part of the sublease language @ 6.3. Jamison said he did not know what she meant. It was an incredible exchange and had terrible optics. I watched it twice. If you've ever seen a witness trapped in cross examination, that's exactly what Mr. Jamison looked like to me. Jamison ultimately said he was not planning to assign subleases to former city employees but the clear impression he left was that he wanted to dodge the question very badly - which is generally a sign of someone being less than honest.
Background on this: @ 6.3 the agreement allows JIG to sublease the arena management to a 3rd Party. The sublease requires approval from the city - however, the city cannot without that approval as long as the sublease manager fulfills the obligations of the agreement. Further, Scruggs said that she believed that LLCs including former city employees (I interpreted this to mean Beasley and Associates) were in line to receive subleases. This is a fascinating development as it amounts to a thinly veiled acquisition of sublease assignments as kickbacks to the city staff that helped get the deal passed.

To any reasonable person, this is a deal that a destitute city has no business approving. If the contract is effected and the sale is closed without any interruption for lawsuit or referendum, I would assess a 10% chance at most that Glendale will be able to perform on the contract. As Othmar pointed out, the detailed financial report that will be published sometime in the next 30 days or so. Based upon that information, we should be able to make a reasonable guess as to which year the city will begin to default on their debts.

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Old
11-28-2012, 12:06 PM
  #93
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Does anyone else find it absolutely incomprehensible that Jamison could get this deal and a whole lot of public money without revealing his investors (partners).

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11-28-2012, 12:09 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
Does anyone else find it absolutely incomprehensible that Jamison could get this deal and a whole lot of public money without revealing his investors (partners).
In the real world what you've described is absolutely incomprehensible.

In the bizarro world of the Glendale city council.........

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11-28-2012, 12:10 PM
  #95
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Congrats on the "Route 66" Thread. Never thought we'd be here.
(Just a reminder, I named the "PHX: The Thread of '69" a while back...just really excited for that one but can't remember who wrote the better Bryan Adams song lyrics).
Already filed away and waiting for Thread LXIX:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mzappa View Post
I'm going to go way-way far in advance, and pre-empt naming of thread LXIX with a Canadian/Bryan Adams theme in the honour of former-Councillor Clark...


Phoenix LXIX: Was the Thread of '69:

...Oh when Gary looks back,
That franchise seemed to last forever,
And if he just could sell it,
Yeah, the NHL wanted to stay there,
Darcy's cupcakes were the best of his life
Quote:
Originally Posted by CGG
I second that motion for Phoenix LXIX, and submit the following lyrics to Glendale-ize Bryan Adams' masterpiece:

I signed my first real lease thing
Glendale thought it was a sign
Delayed until the deal went dead
Was before Thread Number Sixty-nine

DJ and some guys from school
Had a plan and they tried real hard
Investors quit, Beasley got queasy
Shoulda known they’d never get far

Oh when I look back now
This saga seemed to last forever
And if they had the choice
Yeah, no owner wants to be there

Those were the best days of my life

Ain’t no use in complaining
When Goldwater’s Jobbing you
Matty’s plan was brain-dead simple
Just buy the parking with an I.O.U. Yeah!

Sign it on the dotted line
These two weeks won’t last forever
But nobody has the coin
The NHL says now or never

Those were the best days of my life
Oh yeah
It happened before Thread Sixty-nine
Oh!

Man, they were killing time
They were getting restless
Greg showed up just in time
I guess Glendale is screwed forever
Forever, no!

And now the council’s changing
Look at all the owners come and gone
Sometimes when Joyce Clark is sober
She thinks about it, wonders what went wrong

Sign it on the dotted line
These two weeks won’t last forever
But nobody has the coin
The NHL says now or never

Those were the best days of my life
Oh Yeah
Back before Thread Number Sixty-nine
Oh Yeah
Jamison is turning Sixty-nine

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11-28-2012, 12:15 PM
  #96
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This piece was tweeted by PuckDaddy

Quote:
Greg Wyshynski‏@wyshynski

First person account of Glendale City Council meeting last night, from a Coyotes fan - http://*******/X09g7F
(From Howlin' Hockey).

Quote:
City of Glendale votes 4-2 in favor of Coyotes / Jamison lease agreement
Nov 28th, 2012 at 5:57 am
by Troy Baker


This is good news indeed if you are a fan of the Phoenix Coyotes. The 4-2 vote means now there is a 30 day referendum period where any opposition needs to accumulate over 3,000 valid signatures to push this matter to a public vote. Jamison’s deal has until Jan. 31 to be completed.

...

Greg Jamison came just before the session along with Don Maloney and President Mike Nealy. They had a quiet cool about them. Yet you could tell they were anxious as the rest of us were. The meeting started out slow. Four council members and the Mayor were seated while a barely understandable council woman phoned it in. No one said why she was not present. Council Alvarez was very basic with her questions and she didn’t have the same esteem as the rest of the panel. She seemed out of place. The other council seemed almost embarrassed by her. She spoke as if she were a single mom who had concerns. She just didn’t get anything. The teleprompter backed up several times as well as just left words out all together as they were not of English origin. Many looked at each other puzzled by the things she said. Someone mumbled she was “eating her Taco Bell.” Another wondered “who elected this lady?” I also thought she had no place ruling on city matters. That is for the City of Glendale to correct. I believe her full name was Norma Alvarez.
http://howlinhockey.com/2012/11/28/c...ase-agreement/

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Old
11-28-2012, 12:18 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
Does anyone else find it absolutely incomprehensible that Jamison could get this deal and a whole lot of public money without revealing his investors (partners).
I thought it was unbelievable back in June when he refused. Last night was even crazier.

What was that movie years ago where the one character had balls of steel that would clang when he walked? Credit to Jamison for the same. I hope Gary buys him a steak dinner with lobster.

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Old
11-28-2012, 12:20 PM
  #98
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- Scruggs asked Jamison if he was going to contract with LLCs featuring former Glendale city employees as part of the sublease....
- Further, Scruggs said that she believed that LLCs including former city employees (I interpreted this to mean Beasley and Associates) were in line to receive subleases. This is a fascinating development as it amounts to a thinly veiled acquisition of sublease assignments as kickbacks to the city staff that helped get the deal passed. [/I]
Indeed it is. I didnt actually watch the meeting, live or in rerun, missed that rather important bit about sub-leases, his being questioned by Scruggs on the matter, the clear intimation & suggestion here one of corruption through kickbacks, let alone the fact that Jamison could very easily sub-lease the AM services to Global Spectrum, AEG or whomever on a market-value base-line retainer with performance incentives and pocket about $10M+ from the city annually, using it I suppose to prop up the franchise.

Beyond the basic hockey operations & marketing, never really having to get his hands dirty in dealing with concessionaires and all of the rest of the minutae in actually running the building, let alone marketing it to Concert Promoters, Booking Agents, Consumer & Trade Show Producers & so on, while greasing the hand of NHL BOG A, B or C, along with the cities former Manager who facilitated the agreement in the first place. Man, I love it when a plan comes together. Good job there CF, as absolutely no one in the 800+ posts over 3.5 hours lastnight actually commented on that, shall we say "salient" line of questioning from outgoing Mayor Elaine Scruggs.


Last edited by Killion: 11-28-2012 at 12:27 PM.
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Old
11-28-2012, 12:24 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
Does anyone else find it absolutely incomprehensible that Jamison could get this deal and a whole lot of public money without revealing his investors (partners).
I think I will go and see my financial advisor and ask him to lend me $100k to buy myself a new home...I won't disclose to him my name, my financial record, credit information anything else. That should go well.

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11-28-2012, 12:25 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonGraham View Post
So Jamison has until jan 31 to close the deal or new the council will/can void the agreement?

68 days away
That's a lot of two weeks' away....

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