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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part VII: The Last Waltz "Cut the sheet & drop the puck!"

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Old
11-28-2012, 11:40 AM
  #751
silverfish
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
From: @KatieStrangESPN
Sent: Nov 28, 2012 12:35p

#CBA #NYR Rangers are second most profitable team ($74 million). Coupled with TOR and MTL, those three teams account for 83% of NHL's income

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On Twitter: http://twitter.com/KatieStrangESPN/s...42627928018944
Can see the players case for more revenue sharing. Can also see the owners case for wanting to keep more of the pie.

Either way, it's time to play Powerball because I'm buying a team if I win

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Old
11-28-2012, 11:41 AM
  #752
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From: @KatieStrangESPN
Sent: Nov 28, 2012 12:32p

#CBA Forbes article on 2012 NHL team values makes good case for PA's stance on revenue-sharing. Says 30 teams never been further apart on $$

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11-28-2012, 11:42 AM
  #753
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From: @KatieStrangESPN
Sent: Nov 28, 2012 12:33p

#CBA According to article, top 5 teams (TOR, NYR, MTL, CHI and BOS) worth avg $605M while bottom 5 (CAR, NYI, CBJ, PHX, STL) avg at $145M

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Old
11-28-2012, 11:44 AM
  #754
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
The Kings flirted with making/missing the postseason all year. They finished 8th. The fact that they would have missed the playoffs doesn't phase me one bit.

They caught an incredible hot streak when the playoffs started. That's the randomness of the playoffs.
Yea, I'm not disagreeing with any of what you said. Just pointing out that a 48 game season isn't ideal for determining what the playoffs should look like if 82 games were played. Both teams who played in the Conference Finals wouldn't have even qualified. But the whole point is moot anyway, because like you said -- everything is random.

I personally would just not want to see that short of a season.

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11-28-2012, 11:45 AM
  #755
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
Either way, it's time to play Powerball because I'm buying a team if I win
Buy $10 worth, get $2 free

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11-28-2012, 11:46 AM
  #756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
From: @KatieStrangESPN
Sent: Nov 28, 2012 12:33p

#CBA According to article, top 5 teams (TOR, NYR, MTL, CHI and BOS) worth avg $605M while bottom 5 (CAR, NYI, CBJ, PHX, STL) avg at $145M

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On Twitter: http://twitter.com/KatieStrangESPN/s...42172439195648
And some of those teams should be moved to other markets.

CBJ has sucked forever, so I can give them the exception. NYI are obviously going to Brooklyn.

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11-28-2012, 11:54 AM
  #757
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I don't see why successful teams have to penalized at the expense of those markets that aren't as lucrative. Never liked revenue sharing.

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11-28-2012, 11:56 AM
  #758
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
I don't see why successful teams have to penalized at the expense of those markets that aren't as lucrative. Never liked revenue sharing.
The most obvious answer is so we won't have to go through this lockout ******** every time the CBA expires. I doubt the profitable teams are really liking not playing games

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11-28-2012, 11:57 AM
  #759
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No matter how long the season, every team will play the same number of games. From a competition standpoint, it makes no difference if there are 82 games, 60 games or 48 games. Every team still has to win more games than the competition. The challenge of winning in a 48 game season may be somewhat different than the challenge of winning in an 82 game season, but the challenge is the same for every team. Maybe the Rangers will benefit from a shorter season and be less fatigued, but so will every other team. It's a wash.

Just get a deal done and play as many games as possible. I want hockey dammit.


Last edited by GAGLine: 11-28-2012 at 12:03 PM.
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Old
11-28-2012, 12:00 PM
  #760
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
I don't see why successful teams have to penalized at the expense of those markets that aren't as lucrative. Never liked revenue sharing.
Agreed. Has anyone proposed a luxury tax rule? Allow teams to spend up to $70.2 million while making the cap what it would be at 50/50. Teams have to match every dollar spent over the 50/50 cap into a pool that is distributed evenly to teams that don't pay any luxury tax.

Teams that can spend are allowed to spend, and it benefits the league. Not enough would be generated just by tax though, so the league would have to have a concrete method of revenue sharing along with the tax.

Hm...

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Old
11-28-2012, 12:02 PM
  #761
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Originally Posted by WhipNash27 View Post
And some of those teams should be moved to other markets.

CBJ has sucked forever, so I can give them the exception. NYI are obviously going to Brooklyn.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozan...rth-1-billion/

Maybe the league should shrink to 5 teams? LOL

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11-28-2012, 12:05 PM
  #762
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
I don't see why successful teams have to penalized at the expense of those markets that aren't as lucrative. Never liked revenue sharing.
Because it hurts all teams when you have franchises with financial problems. It's not penalizing them, it's asking them to help sustain the organization, being the NHL, that allows them to be so lucrative.

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11-28-2012, 12:13 PM
  #763
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
Agreed. Has anyone proposed a luxury tax rule? Allow teams to spend up to $70.2 million while making the cap what it would be at 50/50. Teams have to match every dollar spent over the 50/50 cap into a pool that is distributed evenly to teams that don't pay any luxury tax.

Teams that can spend are allowed to spend, and it benefits the league. Not enough would be generated just by tax though, so the league would have to have a concrete method of revenue sharing along with the tax.

Hm...
Revenue sharing contributes to the health of every team in the league, and therefore the league itself. Look at the NFL. They have had revenue sharing for a long time. Teams compete on the ice, but it is in every team's interest to have all 30 teams be financially viable. Luxury taxes might accomplish the same thing, but would skew the competition on the ice. We are well beyond that anyway. The cap is here to stay.

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Old
11-28-2012, 12:20 PM
  #764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Because it hurts all teams when you have franchises with financial problems. It's not penalizing them, it's asking them to help sustain the organization, being the NHL, that allows them to be so lucrative.
How is it NOT penalizing them? If they're taking a chunk of their revenue and redistributing it, of course it's penalizing them. Besides, the NHL exists *because* of the original 6 franchises to begin with - they didn't need teams in AZ and FL to be this lucrative.

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11-28-2012, 12:26 PM
  #765
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CBJ is potentially an excellent market. Hockey is thriving on all levels from along Lake Erie in northern Ohio and southward to Columbus.

The problem has been poor and inept ownership and terrible player development. Interest and attendance would even fall at MSG if the Rangers were as poor as the Jackets for as long as they have been.

Give fans there a consistent competitive team with a run of playoff appearances for a number of years and support would increase exponentially.

Although Bettman has been a train wreck when it comes to negotiations over the CBA during his tenure and if he has his way he may yet drive the NHL into oblivion this time around, I absolutely support the expansion of the league and its footprint to non-traditional markets. Some have struggled, even ATL, because of management decisions, not the fans. The growth of the sport into a true national sport over the last 20 years has been a positive. All franchises need to survive and if anything, the league needs to expand into places like QC, Seattle, plus another team in Ontario.

I grew up with the Original Six and it was great but I don't want to go back to those days. The NHL may yet die, thanks to the stupidity, greed, and short-sightedness of the owners, and a new league born with fewer teams in only larger markets, but as long as the NHL is around, revenue sharing and the health of all teams is of extreme importance. CBJ can be a model franchise similar to Nashville if only it somehow has good ownership. JD may yet, if the NHL survives, be the person to bring about a rebirth in CBJ.

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Old
11-28-2012, 12:40 PM
  #766
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Since the cap is going to be lower, I hope there is a fight for a hometown discount on the cap towards homegrown players. This will appease the players and the richer teams, while not hurting the low revenue teams. I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up yet in any of the articles I've read.

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Old
11-28-2012, 12:47 PM
  #767
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Not about blind faith, like thinking a heronist would stop using just because supply was short for a couple of weeks...
Lol, amazing analogy, Ola.

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Old
11-28-2012, 01:10 PM
  #768
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I wonder what the first words the mediator will hear in these meetings.

My guess:

Fehr: "The players are willing to play while these negotiations progress."

Bettman: "We're not speaking the same language."

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11-28-2012, 01:31 PM
  #769
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The only way I will assign an asterix to the Cup winner due to a shortened season is if the Devils win it again.

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11-28-2012, 02:27 PM
  #770
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
How is it NOT penalizing them? If they're taking a chunk of their revenue and redistributing it, of course it's penalizing them. Besides, the NHL exists *because* of the original 6 franchises to begin with - they didn't need teams in AZ and FL to be this lucrative.
Not really true.

They don't get anywhere near the TV money, merchandishing, etc. if they are only in 4 American Cities.

sports is not like other business models. You need your competitors to be healthy for your product to be worth anything. It's not in the Rangers best interests to drive the Islanders, Coyotes, Blue Jackets etc out of business or render them non competitive.

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11-28-2012, 02:28 PM
  #771
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I've been an advocate of a shorter NHL season anyway.

But would like it to start on time.

62 game season would suffice every year. The games get a bit dull during the "dog days" and the west-coast trips are a pain in the rear-end.

I like the idea of a shorter season and more conference and division play.

One game against each team out of division and conference and the rest within.

A less condensed schedule could cut down on injury a bit.
Games get dull? Shorter season???

BLASPHEMY!

I value every single regular season game. I love watching Rangers hockey, night in and night out.

A shorter regular season would piss me off so badly. Hockey is my only sport that I watch. The off-season is brutal.

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11-28-2012, 02:29 PM
  #772
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http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozan...rth-1-billion/

Maybe the league should shrink to 5 teams? LOL
The top 20 teams are worth $200M or more. Most of those teams are making a profit or close to breaking even. The Isles, I'm sure once they move to Brooklyn and if they can become competitive again will move up quite a bit as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I've been an advocate of a shorter NHL season anyway.

But would like it to start on time.

62 game season would suffice every year. The games get a bit dull during the "dog days" and the west-coast trips are a pain in the rear-end.

I like the idea of a shorter season and more conference and division play.

One game against each team out of division and conference and the rest within.

A less condensed schedule could cut down on injury a bit.
It probably would be better. Start the season in November and end by Memorial Day. Hockey has the shortest offseason out of any major sport. A five month offseason would be fine and would make the games be propelled into more the meaningful games more quickly. Plus less competition from the NFL if you start later.

NHL Mid-June to October = 3.5 months
NFL February to September = 7 months
NBA Mid-June to November = 4.5 months
MLB November to April = 5 months

Owners would never agree to it though. No way they cut out 20 games from the schedule.


Last edited by WhipNash27: 11-28-2012 at 02:35 PM.
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Old
11-28-2012, 02:34 PM
  #773
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And some of those teams should be moved to other markets.

CBJ has sucked forever, so I can give them the exception. NYI are obviously going to Brooklyn.
NHLPA nor the owners would ever agree to contraction.
Sending more teams to Canada is risky with possible fluctuations of Canadien dollar (the league has been very lucky the last 15 years with this)> I am sure many on this board remember when the Canadien teams were bleeding money because of the exchange rate. That could happen again at some point.

You want to move Phoenix to KC and Columbus to Seattle?
Will that have any real impact on solving the problem?

The problem with some of the markets Bettman has moves teams into is not the market itself, but the fact the teams haven't been competitive.

Atlanta, Columbus, Florida, Phoenix have all put forth lousy on ice product over the last 10-15 years with an abboreation here or there.
Nashville, San Jose are also non traditional markets but have had success...hence are viable franchises.

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11-28-2012, 02:37 PM
  #774
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It doesn't seem like the Canadian dollar will be going down any time soon or any time in the near future. The American dollar isn't worth nearly as much as it once was and probably never will again. Also the Canadian economy is much stronger now than it once was. You put the two together and you see the result.

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11-28-2012, 02:50 PM
  #775
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I thought they were meeting today?

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