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No More Lockout Blues! - 2012 Lockout Part 2 [UPD: AGREEMENT REACHED!]

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Old
11-24-2012, 12:06 AM
  #301
Yukon Joe
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Originally Posted by KingBogo View Post
Yukon Joe I hope you continue to post, as a lawyer IMO you are now the resident expert on most things related to the CBA. My main question at this point is what happens to current contracts if the NHLPA sucessfully decertifies? Also what is the process of decertification including appeals all the way to who has the final say and what type of time period are we looking at? Thanks.
Who knows?

Decertifying is really "on the other side of the looking glass" territory. The NFLPA and NBAPA started down that process, but stopped and signed new CBAs. Nobody entirely knows what happens if you follow that process all the way through.

Like I said it's Russian Roulette. It might be really good - it might be really bad. But if you go that route, it is out of your hands.

I really don't want to overplay my expertise though. I am NOT a labour lawyer. Knowing the basics of litigation in my own field gives me a bit of expertise, but not that much.

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11-24-2012, 01:39 PM
  #302
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Here's what I think Hamrlik should say to his fellow union members who are calling him out and telling him he needs to "respect the guys that fought before him."

"Screw you! I've been through this three times now. I've lost millions of dollars I'm never going to get back and for what? In the last CBA negotiation we could have signed a deal prior to the lock-out basically exactly like what we ended up signing after the lock-out (actually, maybe even a bit better) and gotten paid for a full season to boot. That same outcome is likely to be the result of this lock-out too - the loss of millions of dollars of income for no better deal at the end. Thanks a lot union!"

They should sign the deal the NHL is offering, let the owners get back to screwing each other, and they should make it a 20 year deal! That way they can do nothing but get paid for the next two decades and by the end of it I bet the average salary in the NHL is 5 million per year or more...


Last edited by SensibleGuy: 11-24-2012 at 01:48 PM.
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11-24-2012, 03:58 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by SensibleGuy View Post
Here's what I think Hamrlik should say to his fellow union members who are calling him out and telling him he needs to "respect the guys that fought before him."

"Screw you! I've been through this three times now. I've lost millions of dollars I'm never going to get back and for what? In the last CBA negotiation we could have signed a deal prior to the lock-out basically exactly like what we ended up signing after the lock-out (actually, maybe even a bit better) and gotten paid for a full season to boot. That same outcome is likely to be the result of this lock-out too - the loss of millions of dollars of income for no better deal at the end. Thanks a lot union!"

They should sign the deal the NHL is offering, let the owners get back to screwing each other, and they should make it a 20 year deal! That way they can do nothing but get paid for the next two decades and by the end of it I bet the average salary in the NHL is 5 million per year or more...
True that. At 6% annual compounded growth (midway between the 5-7% projections one hears from the league and PA mavens), even after dropping their cut of HRR from 57 to 50%, it would take only 15 seasons for the average NHL player salary to break the $5 million mark.
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11-25-2012, 11:11 AM
  #304
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Maybe joining the union should an option?

Either way, I hope they get it figured out. I just found out that y old lady got me the Jets channel on our satellite.

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11-25-2012, 11:58 AM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Yukon Joe View Post
Who knows?

Decertifying is really "on the other side of the looking glass" territory. The NFLPA and NBAPA started down that process, but stopped and signed new CBAs. Nobody entirely knows what happens if you follow that process all the way through.

Like I said it's Russian Roulette. It might be really good - it might be really bad. But if you go that route, it is out of your hands.

I really don't want to overplay my expertise though. I am NOT a labour lawyer. Knowing the basics of litigation in my own field gives me a bit of expertise, but not that much.
"If" the players are being rational then it seems like this option is a bit risky for a group that is doing so well financially IMHO. Therefore based on how everything has gone so far I expect them to vigorously pursue this path.

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11-25-2012, 01:04 PM
  #306
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^^^^

PS Andrew Ladd really needs to shut it. I've never really gotten a good vibe from the guy, but he is really turning me off with his PA cheerleader routine. He is not involved in the negotiations, he'd best be served just keeping quiet. I am starting to resent him a bit.

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11-25-2012, 02:18 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Jet View Post
^^^^

PS Andrew Ladd really needs to shut it. I've never really gotten a good vibe from the guy, but he is really turning me off with his PA cheerleader routine. He is not involved in the negotiations, he'd best be served just keeping quiet. I am starting to resent him a bit.
I'm purposefully avoiding reading anything Ladd says because I don't want to dislike him when all is said and done. Hainsey, no big deal really because I didn't see him being worth the $$ he was to get this season. I don't mind him being on the team, but not at that cost.

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11-25-2012, 03:00 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Jet View Post
^^^^

PS Andrew Ladd really needs to shut it. I've never really gotten a good vibe from the guy, but he is really turning me off with his PA cheerleader routine. He is not involved in the negotiations, he'd best be served just keeping quiet. I am starting to resent him a bit.
Un-possible!

I really never had anything against him, in fact I always thought he was a pretty stand up guy tbh. He resigned without question. Came out here on his own dime.

Honestly, what do you expect from them? I'm defending their choices, I just think they should play. But they clearly believe that they are taking it up the rear, and it's they're right to defend that choice.

No one said its right, but it's one of those things that make us who we are.


Last edited by Jet: 11-26-2012 at 11:09 AM.
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11-25-2012, 03:56 PM
  #309
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Personally, I don't have a problem with the owners or the players - they're fighting for what they believe is right. I try to separate the business from the sport. Once done, and they're back to playing, I'll pretty much forget what transpired other than to see the whole shebang as a black mark on the NHL.

That's just my personal opinion though - obviously everyone's entitled to their own.

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Old
11-25-2012, 10:25 PM
  #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
Personally, I don't have a problem with the owners or the players - they're fighting for what they believe is right. I try to separate the business from the sport. Once done, and they're back to playing, I'll pretty much forget what transpired other than to see the whole shebang as a black mark on the NHL.

That's just my personal opinion though - obviously everyone's entitled to their own.
I kinda see it the same way. Can see both sides. I think the owners should 'win' on the HRR percentage, and the players 'win' on some contracting rights. Right now the NHL wants to win in all areas and that's just pissing the PA off to not sign a deal.

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11-26-2012, 02:26 AM
  #311
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I agree once it's over it's done and no hard feelings against any of the players or owners from my standpoint it's just business for me at least.

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Old
11-26-2012, 06:18 AM
  #312
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I agree once it's over it's done and no hard feelings against any of the players or owners from my standpoint it's just business for me at least.
I agree, but the players would be better off not saying anything.

The PR battle is irrelavent, and anyways will be won by who the fans see as extenting the olive branch not by name calling. Name calling stops working in grade school.

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Old
11-26-2012, 08:16 AM
  #313
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Ondrej Pavelec seems to be coming to Finland as in rumorwise.

Any info about that?

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11-26-2012, 11:34 PM
  #314
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It looks like both sides agreed to the use of a mediator, and there was already some drama around that. XD

Quote:
Elliotte Friedman‏@FriedgeHNIC
Really hope that somehow @GuySerota is not the real mediator. Yikes.

Elliotte Friedman‏@FriedgeHNIC
Looks like he nuked his twitter page. Ouch. I look down my timeline and understand why I'll never hold an important government position.


Freidman is referring to one of the assigned mediators. After Friedmans initial tweet Serota deleted all the tweets he had previously made (thousands of them). I didn't read his twitter page so can't comment on what Friedman had found out of line.
Quote:
@Real_ESPNLeBrun: Never mind on Serota, the federal mediators have decided to remove him from the NHL case.

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Old
11-27-2012, 08:20 AM
  #315
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I agree once it's over it's done and no hard feelings against any of the players or owners from my standpoint it's just business for me at least.
Hainsey will be the only one in my black book, but that's more a product of the rest of our guys knowing to keep their yaps shut than it is anything else. Probably my favorite part about this lockout.

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11-27-2012, 08:32 AM
  #316
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This mediator stuff is just all part of the process, and I personally don't believe it will solve anything. Just cancel the season already and both incompetent sides can have the next 6-7 months to twiddle their thumbs, blow up balloons for one-another, eat some popcorn and continue on with the circus they've created. It's a sad day when the NHL is being destroyed over a pot of money that cannot be split up because the two sides cannot put their pride and egos aside and meet halfway. Pitiful.

I love the sport and the gamE, and I will be there when this circus comes to and end, but the truth is, is the business side is a complete black hole in such a glorious sport. It's absolutely disgusting what they're doing to this game.

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11-28-2012, 12:05 PM
  #317
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Interesting.


Quote:
Want to know why the NHL lockout is creeping into its fourth month of existence, why we’re approaching 80 days of hockey pestilence, hostility and greed?

Here’s a story illustrating the self-interested, tyrannical leadership at play on the NHL’s side:

Winnipeg Jets representation at a recent NHL Board of Governors meeting piped up to say it was opposed to engaging in a long, bloody lockout sure to stymie their franchise’s momentum and hurt the game of hockey.

It wasn’t Winnipeg owner Mark Chipman, but rather one of the alternate governors representing the Jets.


Bruins Principal Owner and Chairman of the Board of Governors Jeremy Jacobs answered by reprimanding the Winnipeg representative as one of the “new kids on the block” and informed him that he would know when he was allowed to speak in the NHL board room.
http://www.csnne.com/hockey-boston-b...blockID=807091

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11-28-2012, 12:18 PM
  #318
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Good christ almighty
Why does this come as to no shock to me

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11-28-2012, 12:20 PM
  #319
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It's pretty well known that there is a hierarchy in the NHL. Jeremy Jacobs and Ed Snider are the main principles in that group. They are known for belittling and intimidating other owners. The other thing to remember with the board of governors is that not all owners are equal, it's typical politics.

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Old
11-28-2012, 12:24 PM
  #320
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Anyone know who our alternate governors are?
I've seen lists outlining it before.

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11-28-2012, 12:37 PM
  #321
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Perhaps reading between the lines here, but given the Jets are opposed to carrying on this lockout to a lengthy extent, does it appear obvious to anyone that the Jets organization view this fiasco as there is a deal to be made now given the context of what is currently being debated between Owners/Players? I think so.

For those who say (and I am not taking sides here, just using it as a point of discussion) "Keep on going as long as you need to [owners], TNSE will be better for it". Will they? maybe so, but if they're opposed to carrying on too much longer with this lockout, they must be content with where they believe a deal will fall given what the 2-sides are bickering over today, I would think, going by those quotes above.

I wonder how many owners feel this way? I would guess many. It seems ludicrous that Bettman only needs what? 8 owners to side with him in order to pass or decline something, when there is a 30 team/owner pool here.

If a majority of the owners feel the same way as this article is saying the Jets organization feels, surely at some point here they would demand a deal be made. But, can majority rule over guys like Jacobs and co.? You would think so, but who knows.


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11-28-2012, 12:48 PM
  #322
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Originally Posted by wpgsilver View Post
Anyone know who our alternate governors are?
I've seen lists outlining it before.
Good question. I'm pretty sure Jim Ludlow is one if them, not sure about other alternates.

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11-28-2012, 12:48 PM
  #323
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It's pretty well known that there is a hierarchy in the NHL. Jeremy Jacobs and Ed Snider are the main principles in that group. They are known for belittling and intimidating other owners. The other thing to remember with the board of governors is that not all owners are equal, it's typical politics.
No surprise there.

JMO, but one reason I could never be a Bruins fan. All Jacobs cares about is making money. For years after the Bobby Orr days, as long as the Bruins were drawing well, Jacobs would not allow anything to be done to improve the team if it cost more money. Make the playoffs, give the fans a glimmer of hope, and keep it status quo.

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11-28-2012, 12:56 PM
  #324
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maybe one day DT will take part in the meetings and Jacobs will turn tail rather quickly.

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Old
11-28-2012, 01:01 PM
  #325
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No surprise there.

JMO, but one reason I could never be a Bruins fan. All Jacobs cares about is making money. For years after the Bobby Orr days, as long as the Bruins were drawing well, Jacobs would not allow anything to be done to improve the team if it cost more money. Make the playoffs, give the fans a glimmer of hope, and keep it status quo.
Oh believe me, those years were very difficult as a fan. Most of us Bruins fans hated Jacobs, much like Islander fans hate Wang nowadays. It's only been since the last lockout that he's actually invested money into the Bruins. He's been spending to the CAP since then, so it's easier to dislike him less, especially since we got our cup. I'm still not a fan of his, but I hate him less, lol. I also understand that he's a really shrewd businessman and the NHL is just that, a business.

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