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11-28-2012, 01:44 PM
  #276
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
I like that idea.

Give me offensive upside in round two!
I've given them a semi-free pass so far with drafting, but this year if it's all Lukas Sutters past the first I will be beyond pissed off.

And yeah I would have thought they'd send Pascal Vincent to the Q as he already has scouting experience in his background.

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11-28-2012, 02:01 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by jetkarma View Post
That isn't actually accurate.

Some teams have cut back on their scouting , some teams have limited scouts to day trips , ie no overnight stays . This has been a cost cutting move for several teams , I know this has and is happening.
I wasn't only speaking about the usual amateur scouts. A lot of teams pro scouts and management have been participating in amateur scouting a lot more than they usually would.

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11-28-2012, 02:02 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Sweech View Post
I've given them a semi-free pass so far with drafting, but this year if it's all Lukas Sutters past the first I will be beyond pissed off.

And yeah I would have thought they'd send Pascal Vincent to the Q as he already has scouting experience in his background.
I don't want goalies that the goalie guild hasn't heard of either.

I say that somewhat jokingly, but in all seriousness...

Why not nab someone who won't be available as a UDFA?

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11-28-2012, 02:04 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
I don't want goalies that the goalie guild hasn't heard of either.

I say that somewhat jokingly, but in all seriousness...

Why not nab someone who won't be available as a UDFA?
You mean you don't like the 3 we've drafted in the last 2 years?

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11-28-2012, 02:11 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by Paradise View Post
You mean you don't like the 3 we've drafted in the last 2 years?
I actually do like Hellebuyck, I'll say that.

In all honesty they want to model themselves after Nashville and that's a very Nashville thing to do.

Just instead of taking an obscure European netminder they take an obscure American.

I do hope they take a look at Nashville's success with European drafting. That's how they've built a deep team with lower picks.

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11-28-2012, 02:14 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Sweech View Post
I actually do like Hellebuyck, I'll say that.

In all honesty they want to model themselves after Nashville and that's a very Nashville thing to do.

Just instead of taking an obscure European netminder they take an obscure American.

I do hope they take a look at Nashville's success with European drafting. That's how they've built a deep team with lower picks.
I've been disappointed with their lack of European selections. I think they've passed on better Euro prospects just to select North American. I sure hope I'm wrong when it comes to my lack of faith in their overseas scouting.

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11-28-2012, 02:32 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by Sweech View Post
I actually do like Hellebuyck, I'll say that.

In all honesty they want to model themselves after Nashville and that's a very Nashville thing to do.

Just instead of taking an obscure European netminder they take an obscure American.

I do hope they take a look at Nashville's success with European drafting. That's how they've built a deep team with lower picks.
I have no problem with them taking a flyer on Hellebuyck of Phillips.

Doubling up on unknown goalies one year after taking Kasdorf was a little odd to me though.

I agree with Paradise about the lack of Euros. I like Euros. So much mystery.

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11-28-2012, 02:39 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by Paradise View Post
I wasn't only speaking about the usual amateur scouts. A lot of teams pro scouts and management have been participating in amateur scouting a lot more than they usually would.
True but several teams have cut back on their scouting , so some teams like the JETS will benefit by adding resources to scouting , while others will ( presumably ) not benefit because of their scaling back the scouting department to save dollars.

Some teams will be pro active as much as the JETS , some will do much less , no team will do more imo , this I am confident about.

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11-28-2012, 02:41 PM
  #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truck View Post
I have no problem with them taking a flyer on Hellebuyck of Phillips.

Doubling up on unknown goalies one year after taking Kasdorf was a little odd to me though.

I agree with Paradise about the lack of Euros. I like Euros. So much mystery.
Here Here,

I definitely think they need too start picking a few boom/bust players, as they seem to be sticking to guys that projects as more sure fire depth/bottom 6 players- which is fine, i get the idea of stocking the system to reflect the "culture" first and foremost, but I think we can afford to move away from that now.

As for goalies, they are such a phenomenal crapshoot that i really have no problems with drafting Hellbuyck's etc.

On Euro's: yes! GIVE ME MORE EURO's! Two drafts i'll let it slide, but if they go another year without a single euro, it really beg's the question as to what the reasoning is. I personally think your more likely to get a hidden depth-pick gem from europe then north america, so i'd love to see us start grabbing a couple.

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11-28-2012, 02:43 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by jetkarma View Post
True but several teams have cut back on their scouting , so some teams like the JETS will benefit by adding resources to scouting , while others will ( presumably ) not benefit because of their scaling back the scouting department to save dollars.

Some teams will be pro active as much as the JETS , some will do much less , no team will do more imo , this I am confident about.
Fair enough. I actually agreed with what you were saying in the first place. I just wanted to point out that other teams were or could do the same type of scouting process as the Jets.

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11-28-2012, 02:56 PM
  #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truck View Post
I have no problem with them taking a flyer on Hellebuyck of Phillips.

Doubling up on unknown goalies one year after taking Kasdorf was a little odd to me though.

I agree with Paradise about the lack of Euros. I like Euros. So much mystery.
I agree with your thinking here. I have no issues taking a flyer on a late round goalie every year (if needed), but to pick 2 in the same draft like they did and 1 the year before puzzles me. I still think we should have signed FPW (if we wanted a goalie that badly) and used one of our picks last year on a positional player ( Griffith, Troock, Carrick, etc).

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11-28-2012, 03:04 PM
  #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind View Post
On Euro's: yes! GIVE ME MORE EURO's! Two drafts i'll let it slide, but if they go another year without a single euro, it really beg's the question as to what the reasoning is. I personally think your more likely to get a hidden depth-pick gem from europe then north america, so i'd love to see us start grabbing a couple.
Maybe the Jets scouts simply had a NA player next up on their draft board every time their pick came up? It could be as simple as that.

Not sure why it's more likely to find a gem in Europe than NA, both are scouted pretty highly now. I am all for European players, hell most of my favourite players from the last few drafts have been European (Rakell, Jurco, Faksa, Barkov, Dano...oh wow apparently almost all of my favourites are European ), but for now I have no reason to suspect the Jets are avoiding Europeans for anything other than legitmate reasons (not wanting to come over) or question their scouting ability. Now that may change as we start to see the results from the Jets scouting (and the 11 draft doesn't really count since the new scouting staff was not really in place for that one) but right now I don't see the problem.

PS this does NOT "beg the question". It may "raise the question" as to why, big difference.

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11-28-2012, 03:04 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by Paradise View Post
Fair enough. I actually agreed with what you were saying in the first place. I just wanted to point out that other teams were or could do the same type of scouting process as the Jets.

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11-28-2012, 03:09 PM
  #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradise View Post
I agree with your thinking here. I have no issues taking a flyer on a late round goalie every year (if needed), but to pick 2 in the same draft like they did and 1 the year before puzzles me. I still think we should have signed FPW (if we wanted a goalie that badly) and used one of our picks last year on a positional player ( Griffith, Troock, Carrick, etc).
The goalies are long term projects, none of Kadorf, Hellebuyck or Phillips will be even signed for 4+ years, unless one of them have unexpected rapid development. I got no problem with those selections. It's more about timeline for the future, long term shots in the dark, which is why FPW does not play into that equation, IMO.

I definatly don't agree with not signing FPW though. By all indications he was anxious to sign with the Jets (there was an article about that), and he has/is tearing it up in Sweden, not sure why we didn't bring him over. Clearly they don't think ANYTHING of Carrozzi, why didn't they sign him and bring him over to Colorado for a year, then by next season he could back up Pasquale in St. John's. He seems like a really solid goalie, probably be a European UFA signing in NHL in a year or two, IMO. Mistake on that one, part of the remnant in the Jets organization that dislikes all things ATL, IMO.

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11-28-2012, 03:40 PM
  #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
The goalies are long term projects, none of Kadorf, Hellebuyck or Phillips will be even signed for 4+ years, unless one of them have unexpected rapid development. I got no problem with those selections. It's more about timeline for the future, long term shots in the dark, which is why FPW does not play into that equation, IMO.

I definatly don't agree with not signing FPW though. By all indications he was anxious to sign with the Jets (there was an article about that), and he has/is tearing it up in Sweden, not sure why we didn't bring him over. Clearly they don't think ANYTHING of Carrozzi, why didn't they sign him and bring him over to Colorado for a year, then by next season he could back up Pasquale in St. John's. He seems like a really solid goalie, probably be a European UFA signing in NHL in a year or two, IMO. Mistake on that one, part of the remnant in the Jets organization that dislikes all things ATL, IMO.
And yet kept all the Atlanta scouts and listened to their advice about Schiefele?

But yeah, I'm with you on FPW - fun fact: he was the organization's last non-North American pick - 5th round of 2010.

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11-28-2012, 03:50 PM
  #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
The goalies are long term projects, none of Kadorf, Hellebuyck or Phillips will be even signed for 4+ years, unless one of them have unexpected rapid development. I got no problem with those selections. It's more about timeline for the future, long term shots in the dark, which is why FPW does not play into that equation, IMO.

I definatly don't agree with not signing FPW though. By all indications he was anxious to sign with the Jets (there was an article about that), and he has/is tearing it up in Sweden, not sure why we didn't bring him over. Clearly they don't think ANYTHING of Carrozzi, why didn't they sign him and bring him over to Colorado for a year, then by next season he could back up Pasquale in St. John's. He seems like a really solid goalie, probably be a European UFA signing in NHL in a year or two, IMO. Mistake on that one, part of the remnant in the Jets organization that dislikes all things ATL, IMO.
The FPW situation confused the heck out of me.

After Pav and Pasquale we had nothing. Not sure why they wouldn't keep him around as insurance.

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11-30-2012, 09:23 PM
  #292
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Question: Do folks feel we should pick a goalie relatively early in the 2013 draft, and if so, would that player be Fucale or Comrie?

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11-30-2012, 10:23 PM
  #293
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Question: Do folks feel we should pick a goalie relatively early in the 2013 draft, and if so, would that player be Fucale or Comrie?
Don't feel like looking for stats, but I know goalies have a significantly much lower percentages of playing in the NHL and being "impact" in the NHL in the first round than any other positions. Sometimes a goalie does have elite talent and that can't be denied, but as a rule, shy well away from goalies early, IMO, too hard to predict.

I'm against taking a goalie in the first at all, baring a very special case. Fucale or Comrie do not fit that at all, IMO. Neither would rank in my top 30 probably, although it's much too early for me to be posting rankings (I'm no pro scout, I need alot more time than late November). Honestly, I'm not really sold right now that either of those are 1st rounders.

Goalies statistically are alot more unpredictable far harder to predict. Better to throw a bunch of shots in the dark in the 3-7 rounds than to waste a high pick on one, although I am not completely opposed to taking one in the 2nd round, I still tend to shy away from even using a 2nd rounder on one.

Since I really started following the draft in 2006, I'd say only Andrei Vasilevski, Riku Helenius, maybe Jonathan Bernier and maybe maybe Jack Campbell I have ranked in the top 20 overall for goalies.

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11-30-2012, 10:30 PM
  #294
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I had no problem with where Carey Price was drafted and think Subban will be special but ob balance I agree there are too many elite goalies who were drafted later to burn up 1st round picks on anything less than slam dunk goalie prospects.


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11-30-2012, 10:32 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Don't feel like looking for stats, but I know goalies have a significantly much lower percentages of playing in the NHL and being "impact" in the NHL in the first round than any other positions. Sometimes a goalie does have elite talent and that can't be denied, but as a rule, shy well away from goalies early, IMO, too hard to predict.

I'm against taking a goalie in the first at all, baring a very special case. Fucale or Comrie do not fit that at all, IMO. Neither would rank in my top 30 probably, although it's much too early for me to be posting rankings (I'm no pro scout, I need alot more time than late November). Honestly, I'm not really sold right now that either of those are 1st rounders.

Goalies statistically are alot more unpredictable far harder to predict. Better to throw a bunch of shots in the dark in the 3-7 rounds than to waste a high pick on one, although I am not completely opposed to taking one in the 2nd round, I still tend to shy away from even using a 2nd rounder on one.

Since I really started following the draft in 2006, I'd say only Andrei Vasilevski, Riku Helenius, maybe Jonathan Bernier and maybe maybe Jack Campbell I have ranked in the top 20 overall for goalies.
I agree.

I don't like the idea of drafting goalies in the 1st round.

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11-30-2012, 11:37 PM
  #296
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I agree.

I don't like the idea of drafting goalies in the 1st round.
totally agree. their development...is so...weird. There's a much better chance that a goalie will develop into a star NHL player that got drafted in the later rounds then a skater. I dont know why. Thats just been my experience.

Id much rather go for a forward. Especially in a deep draft like this one.

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12-01-2012, 02:33 AM
  #297
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Question: Do folks feel we should pick a goalie relatively early in the 2013 draft, and if so, would that player be Fucale or Comrie?
Spencer Martin is better than both.

While I'm no goalie expert, this kid has carried his team this season. He plays lights out any game I've seen him in, it's really something.

That being said goalies are such a crapshoot. I don't want to use a first or second on a goalie ever.

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12-01-2012, 11:18 AM
  #298
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With three 2nd round picks, i'm actually hoping the Jets grab the best goalie available at that time, if he's also bp at that time.

I certainly think we need another 'blue chip' prospect in goal, as i'm not completely sold Pavey is the guy to help us be a legit SC contender.

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12-01-2012, 11:33 AM
  #299
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I hope Chicago gets picked last so Winnipeg can get 1st pick in 2nd round.

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12-01-2012, 12:09 PM
  #300
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With three 2nd round picks, i'm actually hoping the Jets grab the best goalie available at that time, if he's also bp at that time.

I certainly think we need another 'blue chip' prospect in goal, as i'm not completely sold Pavey is the guy to help us be a legit SC contender.
That's the thing. There's essentially no such thing.

A guy taken in the 5th round could likely end up being the best.

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