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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part VII: The Last Waltz "Cut the sheet & drop the puck!"

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Old
11-28-2012, 03:53 PM
  #776
NYRFAN218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RL605 View Post
I thought they were meeting today?
They are, it started at 1. Probably won't be much information today or anything to discuss since the mediators are probably just gathering all the information and figuring out everything.

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11-28-2012, 04:22 PM
  #777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
From: @HackswithHaggs
Sent: Nov 28, 2012 12:16p

Gary Bettman is just a messenger. It's time for B's/#NHL fans to hold Jeremy Jacobs responsible for lockout http://t.co/8IFDebfe #BruinsTalk

sent via UberSocial for BlackBerry
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/HackswithHaggs/st...37881469067264
JFJ was blasted last time for preaching a less confrontational approach.

The 8 owners can hijack the process. The money is set. Players are getting 50%. The cut was supposed to be the issue. Now they are holding out for reduced player rights. The owners have more issues amongst themselves. Big teams hate revenue sharing. Small teams don't want to give a competitive advantage away in exchange for handouts. All compromise in the board room is through player assets. The players forced all the compromise between owners, those are player "concessions ".

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11-28-2012, 04:33 PM
  #778
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
I don't see why successful teams have to penalized at the expense of those markets that aren't as lucrative. Never liked revenue sharing.
Revenue sharing was a player solution in '05. They got it, but the league locked out to get controls and real solutions. They got a cap and cost certainty. Its not enough obviously.

It has to be clear at this point that rules will be circumvented and huge disparity will exist between the top and bottom. Revenue sharing is the only guaranteed control that will keep teams in the game. The last system made the rich teams much richer and the rest are treading water at best. If the top few drive the cap, the floor has the potential drown weak teams. If owners try to beat the system, no control is sure fire. If Jacobs wants to use the same system, he can help fund his vision of the league.

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11-28-2012, 04:45 PM
  #779
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Shorter regular season opens the door to international style competitions. World cup halfway between olympics. Free advertising. The last FIFA world cup helped MLS and certainly factored into ESPN acquiring EPL rights.

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11-28-2012, 05:17 PM
  #780
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
Shorter regular season opens the door to international style competitions. World cup halfway between olympics. Free advertising. The last FIFA world cup helped MLS and certainly factored into ESPN acquiring EPL rights.
Hockey revenue comes from selling tickets. Owners aren't going to agree to get rid of games. I also don't think there's any real interest in setting up international competition during the season--especially if any games are in Europe. The time difference washes out any interest in North America. The league isn't thrilled about having to shutdown for the Olympics, unless it's in North America.

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11-28-2012, 05:22 PM
  #781
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
I don't see why successful teams have to penalized at the expense of those markets that aren't as lucrative. Never liked revenue sharing.
I always looked at it like this:

The NYR (and other big market, money making teams) can't just play each other... they'd almost have to contract back the original 6.

Therefore you need more opponents. In order for smaller-market teams to survive, you need to share the revenue that all the teams produce. It makes the league bigger, more diverse and exciting. Which in turn makes more money for everyone.

If you only had teams in MTL, NYR, TOR, BOS, DET, CHI and a few more... the league wide revenue wouldn't be 3.3B. Granted those teams would all be healthy but everything else would suffer (especially TV ratings).

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11-28-2012, 05:44 PM
  #782
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Originally Posted by Brooklyn Ranger View Post
Hockey revenue comes from selling tickets. Owners aren't going to agree to get rid of games. I also don't think there's any real interest in setting up international competition during the season--especially if any games are in Europe. The time difference washes out any interest in North America. The league isn't thrilled about having to shutdown for the Olympics, unless it's in North America.
I get the cons especially tickets. But the world cup is a summer event. Longer offseason only makes it a more feasible.

Call hockey guys greedy, but they'll play 100% in the post season and international competitions. For free.

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11-28-2012, 05:51 PM
  #783
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Good article with quotes from Ted Lindsay.

Quote:
Hockey Hall of Famer and union pioneer Ted Lindsay on Wednesday defended the work of commissioner Gary Bettman during the lockout, saying players need to be more respectful in their comments.

"One thing that really has bothered me when I'm reading the paper on all of this is the way they're talking about 'that idiot Bettman', or any of the other stupid adjectives they've used to describe him," said Lindsay, 87. "They and the fans and the media need to realize that Bettman is doing his job and fulfilling his responsibility to the owners, just like (NHLPA executive director) Don (Fehr) is to the players. The players need to respect and understand that. Don't go bad-mouthing Bettman like that."
http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/86...layers-lockout

Also...

Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Won't be many details I don't think coming out of NHL/NHLPA mediation but I can tell you meeting is still going on at this hour...

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Old
11-28-2012, 05:52 PM
  #784
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https://twitter.com/Real_ESPNLeBrun/...19881672531969

Quote:
Won't be many details I don't think coming out of NHL/NHLPA mediation but I can tell you meeting is still going on at this hour...
They're obviously ratifying a deal...

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11-28-2012, 07:01 PM
  #785
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Originally Posted by NYRFAN218 View Post
Good article with quotes from Ted Lindsay.



http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/86...layers-lockout
I agree that the players should be the bigger side, however you really can't expect that when the commissioner treats the players like children.

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11-28-2012, 07:14 PM
  #786
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
I agree that the players should be the bigger side, however you really can't expect that when the commissioner treats the players like children.
How does he treat them like they are children?

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11-28-2012, 07:18 PM
  #787
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Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
NHL/NHLPA mediation meeting is done for the day. They are meeting again tomorrow.

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Old
11-28-2012, 07:29 PM
  #788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
How does he treat them like they are children?
"If you don't take this offer, the next one will be worse"

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11-28-2012, 07:36 PM
  #789
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
"If you don't take this offer, the next one will be worse"
Which I guess is how he treats children.... ?

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11-28-2012, 08:28 PM
  #790
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Bettman's paternalistic attitude is why all workers, even those earning millions, need a union. Luckily Don Fehr learned from the master, Marvin Miller, who was a product of mid 20th century real world labor negotiations.

Protecting the rights of workers,again even those earning millions, is one of the most important jobs a union can do. Given the greediness and short sightedness of management in this dispute, where Bettman's bullying is part of his strategy for union capitulation and ownership is willing to destroy the industry so as to have their way, makes Fehr and the union needed and essential.

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11-28-2012, 08:28 PM
  #791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Which I guess is how he treats children.... ?
There's that and the rumors that the owners want to take away recess.



This thread has me thinking:



If there was 2 piles of manure close to each other on a farm:

Would anyone spend much time spend trying to determine which pile smelled worse?


Last edited by ltrangerfan: 11-28-2012 at 08:46 PM.
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11-28-2012, 08:49 PM
  #792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
"If you don't take this offer, the next one will be worse"
Its called reality

Every month that goes by is more loss for NHL revenue wise and more a punch to impact of league

Thus every offer will get worse and worse as situation gets worse

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11-28-2012, 08:56 PM
  #793
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Its called reality

Every month that goes by is more loss for NHL revenue wise and more a punch to impact of league

Thus every offer will get worse and worse as situation gets worse
I believe the PA is engaged in a variation of the Kobayashi Maru test?

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11-28-2012, 08:59 PM
  #794
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
I get the cons especially tickets. But the world cup is a summer event. Longer offseason only makes it a more feasible.

Call hockey guys greedy, but they'll play 100% in the post season and international competitions. For free.
Players may be willing, but owners won't give up the extra income from selling tickets.

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Old
11-28-2012, 09:06 PM
  #795
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Which I guess is how he treats children.... ?
"If one more child asks me for cookies, no one is getting any"

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Old
11-28-2012, 09:09 PM
  #796
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Its called reality

Every month that goes by is more loss for NHL revenue wise and more a punch to impact of league

Thus every offer will get worse and worse as situation gets worse
The offer wasn't for real dollars, it was for a percentage, so what you're saying there strikes me as ridiculous.

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11-28-2012, 09:14 PM
  #797
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Meeting for about 7 hours should be a good thing. I would hope...

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11-28-2012, 09:27 PM
  #798
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Meeting for about 7 hours should be a good thing. I would hope...
probably not. they have to re-hash everything for the mediators. this is all just done as a pre-cursor for the players to decertify.

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11-28-2012, 09:27 PM
  #799
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
"If one more child asks me for cookies, no one is getting any"
Well that's totally unfair to the children who are behaving.

Does Bettman have kids, or did Chris Chelios kill them?

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11-29-2012, 07:17 AM
  #800
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Quote:
Folger said that if the labor war has turned into a personal battle - as it seems to have done, with Fehr and Bettman as the main combatants - "it makes the mediation tougher."

He also said mediation can "save face" for the side that is more reluctant to compromise.

"The mediation-made-me-do-it syndrome can work in their favor," he said. The side that makes what it perceives as the biggest concessions can "save face by implying it was pressure from the mediator that caused it. It wasn't that they caved, but they went with something the mediator [suggested]."
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...pert_says.html

Quote:
So, really, Im just waiting along with the rest of you. Yes, I make calls still though, silly. I definitely would not bet the farm on this, but I still believe there will be a season of some kind. Not sure I can give you a good set of Nate Silver-style data points as to why I believe this, but I do.

But, of course, there are just enough small-minded, petty egos in the room for this thing to blow the whole season up. I found this story today written by a writer out of Boston, about Bruins owner Jeremy Jacobs, and the large role hes played in this lockout. The more you read about Jacobs, the more loathsome creature he seems.
http://blogs.denverpost.com/avs/2012...ic-step/11940/

Saving face would be nice.

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