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Old
11-28-2012, 10:46 AM
  #26
MasterDecoy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinCider View Post
Whether or not SJ likes this deal or not, it is time to retool, if they don't soon, it'll be time to rebuild. Thornton, Marleau, Boyle were all elite players at one time, they are all on the down swing of their careers now. San Jose might not have much of a prospect pool, but they do have some good young players. Couture, Pavelski, and Burns are all very nice pieces to build around. San Jose needs to make a decision, the sooner the better, if you ask me.
But they won't, and that's the point: they owe their fans at least one or two more runs.

My opinion is they need to rebuild, but I understand why they won't

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Old
11-28-2012, 10:48 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Arrch View Post
It's always funny to see people claim Dan Boyle is "on the downswing" or that he has "slowed considerably"

It tells me they don't watch Boyle and don't even bother to look up stats. At least when they make that claim about Thornton, it's apparent that they at least looked up his point totals and we can chalk the comment up to ignorance on defensive responsibility, sheltered play and advanced statistics. Not really any excuse for making those claims about Boyle.
He didn't hit 50 points, he's obviously losing it.

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Old
11-28-2012, 10:50 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by glenbuis View Post
A first round loss to the Blues. I dont see Niemi or Greiss stealing games. Boyle has slowed considerably. Thorton and Marleau no longer dominate like they once did. Are they really still a cup contender or would they be better of to retool by getting some decent returns now for Thornton, Marleau and Boyle to compliment Couture, Pavelski, Burns, etc.
Funny that you mentioned this as Niemi happened to steal game 1 in that series.

Thornton, Marleau and Boyle also have NMC's so its not like they can just get rid of them if they want.

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Old
11-28-2012, 11:01 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by AbsolonMoreau View Post
By downside of their career do you mean turning into one of the better two way players in the game for Thornton or still being 8th in defenseman scoring while playing the first third of the season with a broken foot and stick that was the wrong side?
Down swing meaning that he isn't in his prime anymore. Meaning that each year from now on will probably not be as good as the last. Does this mean he isn't good, or productive, or helpful. Not at all. Lidstrom was one of the top 5 dmen in the league until he retired, but at the end he wasn't the best, like he once was. Boyle seems to be aging well, staying healthy, and still producing at a really good clip, which is why I would move him now, while he still has plenty of value. As for big Joe, again he is a very effective player, one of the smartest players in the league, solid at both ends, but he isn't the Joe that was challenging for Art Ross titles anymore. Again, he might not be the old Joe, but he still has huge value to a team that's ready to win now. I'm saying that San Jose doesn't have enough to win now, so they should retool and move some of their older players while their values are still fairly high. This isn't a knock on the Sharks, they were one of the best 3 to 5 teams in the entire NHL for the last 8 years or so, they just never quit got over the hump, and i see them now as being on their down swing with this roster, not a bad team, just a team that will lose a little more each season.

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Old
11-28-2012, 11:02 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
He didn't hit 50 points, he's obviously losing it.
Yup, that's what I said. You got me.

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Old
11-28-2012, 11:09 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by JustinCider View Post
Down swing meaning that he isn't in his prime anymore. Meaning that each year from now on will probably not be as good as the last.
Evident by the last couple of seasons, or just an assumption based on his age?

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Old
11-28-2012, 11:26 AM
  #32
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IMO the value is there for the Oilers but Schultz is going to be getting the PP ice here already and our top unit will likely be 4 forwards and 1D so it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for us to make that trade in terms of organizational need. As for Hartikainen and Marincin they are both what we need and I wouldn't want to part with them for a somewhat short term fix as good as Boyle is. Can Boyle play the left side or is he always on the right side?

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Old
11-28-2012, 11:27 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinCider View Post
As for big Joe, again he is a very effective player, one of the smartest players in the league, solid at both ends, but he isn't the Joe that was challenging for Art Ross titles anymore. Again, he might not be the old Joe, but he still has huge value to a team that's ready to win now.
In Thornton's defense, he's a better player now than he was during the Art Ross year.
Regardless though, neither Thornton nor Marleau will be moved because of their NMCs, and DW won't ask them to waive them.

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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
IMO the value is there for the Oilers but Schultz is going to be getting the PP ice here already and our top unit will likely be 4 forwards and 1D so it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for us to make that trade in terms of organizational need. As for Hartikainen and Marincin they are both what we need and I wouldn't want to part with them for a somewhat short term fix as good as Boyle is. Can Boyle play the left side or is he always on the right side?
Right side ES. He wanders around the ice on the PP. He's arguably the best PPQB in the league even at his age, but I could see why you wouldn't want him taking ice-time away from Schultz (if given the power, Boyle will stay out for the entire 2 minutes of the PP). There isn't much talk about him being a mentor-type person either (where he'd sit down and talk to young players). Defenseman do learn by watching him though; Demers became a OFD in training-camp because he was inspired by Boyle's play.

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Old
11-28-2012, 11:29 AM
  #34
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I am still holding out hope for those two from the oilers perspective

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11-28-2012, 11:31 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harro92 View Post
Dan Boyle
for
Colten Teubert
Magnus Pääjärvi

What needs to be added ?
LOL, no way San Jose trades Boyle, at least not for the the players you've listed.

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Old
11-28-2012, 12:15 PM
  #36
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I'd rather the Oilers struggle a bit with growing pains than to add a player like Boyle who will most likely be a 3rd pairing guy in 3 years when the kids are all in their prime.
Tuebert is a bust and Paajarvi is most likely a 3rd line checker that can fill in the top 6 if injuries come up.

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Old
11-28-2012, 12:32 PM
  #37
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Boyle is still the veteran leader on this team. His heart and leadership on the blue line is invaluable. He's better off retiring as a Shark. I was one of the few people who think Boyle should've been given the "C" instead of Thornton.

And if we are to trade Boyle, we can get a lot more at the trade deadline from a contending team than a bottom-pairing defenseman and a 3rd line forward.

Boyle is not in his prime anymore, but he's still a top 10 puck-mover in the league and a great #2 defenseman.

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Old
11-28-2012, 12:40 PM
  #38
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EDM should go for someone like Doug Murray instead.
He would compliment the existing group better since we have no one after Smid who can play with physical edge. (Fringe NHLers like Peckham\Teubert dont count)

Also, him being a Swede may help ease Klefbom's transition into NHL.

IMO.. SJ needs to get younger and faster.. EDM now has a lot of decent tier 2 prospects that they can trade for role players like Murray.

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Old
11-28-2012, 03:21 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
I'd rather the Oilers struggle a bit with growing pains than to add a player like Boyle who will most likely be a 3rd pairing guy in 3 years when the kids are all in their prime.
Tuebert is a bust and Paajarvi is most likely a 3rd line checker that can fill in the top 6 if injuries come up.
Boyle won't be on the Oilers' 3rd pair by then because he'll probably be gone once his deal is up at the end of next season. That doesn't mean the Oilers wouldn't be smart to bring him in anyway. Just because the Oilers are a young team, it doesn't mean that every addition needs to be a part of the team for the next 10 years. Boyle is a leader and legit top pairing defenseman who would immediately make the Oilers a better team today as well as help ease Schultz (his eventual replacement) into the NHL by letting him get his feet wet on the 3rd pair.

Giving up Teubert is incosequential to the Oilers. Paajarvi is a good player and prospect, but you can't expect to get a guy like Boyle (even if just for a year) without giving up quality in return.

I would be in full support of trading some pieces for a couple of place holders to hold spots until the young guys have had a chance to prove themselves at the NHL level. The Oilers have a few important roster players who probably won't be with the team after next year when their deals are up. Having one for arguably our most important prospect probably wouldn't be such a bad idea.

Hemsky -> Yakupov
Whitney -> Petry
Belanger -> Lander
Smyth -> ???? (Hartikainen?)

Boyle -> Schultz

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Old
11-28-2012, 03:27 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by misfit View Post
Boyle won't be on the Oilers' 3rd pair by then because he'll probably be gone once his deal is up at the end of next season. That doesn't mean the Oilers wouldn't be smart to bring him in anyway. Just because the Oilers are a young team, it doesn't mean that every addition needs to be a part of the team for the next 10 years. Boyle is a leader and legit top pairing defenseman who would immediately make the Oilers a better team today as well as help ease Schultz (his eventual replacement) into the NHL by letting him get his feet wet on the 3rd pair.

Giving up Teubert is incosequential to the Oilers. Paajarvi is a good player and prospect, but you can't expect to get a guy like Boyle (even if just for a year) without giving up quality in return.

I would be in full support of trading some pieces for a couple of place holders to hold spots until the young guys have had a chance to prove themselves at the NHL level. The Oilers have a few important roster players who probably won't be with the team after next year when their deals are up. Having one for arguably our most important prospect probably wouldn't be such a bad idea.

Hemsky -> Yakupov
Whitney -> Petry
Belanger -> Lander
Smyth -> ???? (Hartikainen?)

Boyle -> Schultz
While this trade would still never happen as its just not enough value to the sharks (in terms of what our needs our) to trade away our best Defensemen, on the other hand it was nice to see someone stating the reasons why Edmonton would benefit from such a trade as most of the posts have been about how Boyle is just a player on the decline.

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Old
11-28-2012, 03:43 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by misfit View Post

Hemsky -> Yakupov
Whitney -> Petry
Belanger -> Lander
Smyth -> ???? (Hartikainen?)

Boyle -> Schultz
I like this, all these fit well, especially whitney and petry. and yeah smyth --> harski is about right although Harski is more physical. If we can't get Boyle to mentor Schultz, and I'm sure we can't, just show him tapes of Paul Coffey every day but Boyle is pretty much exactly what I expect Schultz to become in his prime.

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Old
11-28-2012, 04:15 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Sharks4Life View Post
While this trade would still never happen as its just not enough value to the sharks (in terms of what our needs our) to trade away our best Defensemen, on the other hand it was nice to see someone stating the reasons why Edmonton would benefit from such a trade as most of the posts have been about how Boyle is just a player on the decline.
I don't really get why a contending team like the Sharks would trade their best defenseman either.

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11-28-2012, 05:55 PM
  #43
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I don't really get why a contending team like the Sharks would trade their best defenseman either.
Going into next season (or this eventual one?), I'd rather have Burns as the #1 and Boyle as the #3.

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Old
11-28-2012, 08:14 PM
  #44
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I think its because of the contending team idea. The sharks for the past decade were always thought of to be a legit contender. The past coupla years it just seems like to me that there sliding farther away from the cup then getting closer. So they cant trade Boyle, Marleau or Thornton because of the no movement clauses. No sense talking about it then. If they never had those clauses those three could fetch 4-6 good prospects and 3 or so good young players to compliment couture, pavelski, burns etc. If they wait 2-3 yrs , the value of those players will drop quickly.

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11-28-2012, 08:25 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
The Sharks don't have to do anything major to their roster IMO. If they do anything, it would be for a change of scenery or to add a player. Niemi was definitely not the problem against the Blues in the playoffs. Thornton and Boyle were also no where near the problem either. If you are going to single one of the top players in that series, it would be Marleau.
I appreciate someone on the outside saying this.

Too many fans blamed Niemi
Hell, too many fans said the losses were the result of "bad luck"

People need to read this.

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Old
11-28-2012, 10:01 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by glenbuis View Post
I think its because of the contending team idea. The sharks for the past decade were always thought of to be a legit contender. The past coupla years it just seems like to me that there sliding farther away from the cup then getting closer. So they cant trade Boyle, Marleau or Thornton because of the no movement clauses. No sense talking about it then. If they never had those clauses those three could fetch 4-6 good prospects and 3 or so good young players to compliment couture, pavelski, burns etc. If they wait 2-3 yrs , the value of those players will drop quickly.
Not that I think trading them is the answer, but Boyle's NTC is limited.

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Old
11-28-2012, 10:19 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by glenbuis View Post
Sanjose is much like Calgary in that the sooner they realize they should start their rebuild the better they will be down the road. At least sanjose has couture to build around. Maybe for Petry or paarjarvi and something else but not Teubert.
I didn't realize the Sharks had missed the playoffs 3 seasons in a row.

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Old
11-28-2012, 10:22 PM
  #48
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I appreciate someone on the outside saying this.

Too many fans blamed Niemi
Hell, too many fans said the losses were the result of "bad luck"

People need to read this.
I think it also helps that alot of Blue's fans saw guys like Thornton up close and saw how he was nothing like the whole false "choker" rep some people still try to stick on him.

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Old
11-28-2012, 10:42 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by UniversalRemonster View Post
I appreciate someone on the outside saying this.

Too many fans blamed Niemi
Hell, too many fans said the losses were the result of "bad luck"

People need to read this.
Personally, I think Boyle was one of, if not the worst Shark in the series, and that should say something about his play because Marleau/Pavelski went pointless and Clowe/Murray/the entire bottom-6 were awful. Literally, Thornton, Couture, Burns, Niemi, and sort of Havlat showed up, and that was it.

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Old
11-29-2012, 06:56 PM
  #50
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When I stated that the sharks were similar to Calgary, I was referring to the fact that a lot of their key players are getting older. Maybe with the rite addition or two, they could finally get over the hump and win the cup. I'm skeptical and would have to think there are a few sharks fans out there that think the same way.

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