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Old
11-28-2012, 07:16 PM
  #126
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Two 60-point top 6 forwards for an 80-90 point guy who has elite skill. Its really one of those either or scenarios and who you prefer for your particular team. With Washington Backstrom is perfect with Ovechkin. For the Bruins, depth and balance is more of a concern and are probably more than happy with their two guys. I think when you start adding 1sts and blue chip prospects to this deal however its too much for the Bruins to give up. I can easily see however why someone or a team would much rather have Backstrom.

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11-28-2012, 07:50 PM
  #127
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I do feel Backstrom is a qaulity player but to say he is one of the top ten centers in the league may be a bit much.

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11-28-2012, 10:47 PM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
Flawed logic because dimes (in this case) are much more plentiful and easily obtained. An 80pt player is more than 2x valuable than a 40 pt player because there were 9 players that scored 80 or more pts last year, but 157 players who scored 40 or more. Thus, it's easier for a team to add a dime than it is a quarter. So while they may be trading away dimes, by adding the quarter they can easily add another dime and another nicked through other methods and end up having 40 cents to 30 cents for 3 players.
I was not literally saying that those players are worth a dime if Backstrom is worth a quarter, it was just an example to say he was leaving out half the deal when he said some people were saying they would rather have Krejci than Backstrom and I was saying what I thought their logic was.


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Old
11-28-2012, 11:08 PM
  #129
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Wsh wouldn't touch that.

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Old
11-28-2012, 11:16 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenbuis View Post
I do feel Backstrom is a qaulity player but to say he is one of the top ten centers in the league may be a bit much.
Curious but who are u putting ahead of him? (other then the obvious Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Datsyuk etc)

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11-29-2012, 06:21 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by hb11xchamps View Post
Curious but who are u putting ahead of him? (other then the obvious Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Datsyuk etc)
Insert anyone with a cup argument. I'll save the trouble.

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Old
11-29-2012, 06:42 AM
  #132
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Other than his concussion and if he shot the puck more Backstrom is Elite. Face offs...check. Physical? Productive? Two way/pk...stands up for teammates,steps up in playoffs. I think Backstrom is pretty close to H. Sedin as far as best Swedish player. I've read it in an interview before,possibly around the Olympics.

Most important. He looks to be back to form playoffs and khl.

The value in this trade does favor Boston but I just can't see him traded unless another elite center comes back.

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Old
11-29-2012, 06:46 AM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hb11xchamps View Post
Curious but who are u putting ahead of him? (other then the obvious Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Datsyuk etc)
Since Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, and Datsyuk are out of the way, we'll add Giroux, Toews, Tavares, Sedin, Kopitar, Thornton, Spezza...could probably go on with an argument for guys like Staal or even Patrick Kane/Seguin if you consider those two centers.

I love Backstrom and his game - definitely a top tier player - but not a top 10 center right now.

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Old
11-29-2012, 07:27 AM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Girouxtiful View Post
Since Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, and Datsyuk are out of the way, we'll add Giroux, Toews, Tavares, Sedin, Kopitar, Thornton, Spezza...could probably go on with an argument for guys like Staal or even Patrick Kane/Seguin if you consider those two centers.

I love Backstrom and his game - definitely a top tier player - but not a top 10 center right now.
This .... We will just have to suffer in Boston without him .... Trade two top 6 guys that score what ? 10-15 points less than Backstrom ? Plus give a first ?

And for the guys that say there is NO player on the Boston team they would trade Backstrom for ?? I know we have not seen Hockey for a while but really ?

The guys is NOT in the top 10-15 centers in the NHL. There is 5 guys on the Bruins I would not trade even up for him.

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Old
11-29-2012, 08:12 AM
  #135
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Dont forget backes, Richards and Nugent-hopkins. Seriously though I am just yanking ur chain. Backstrom on the one hand is in the top 15 centers in the league. Seeing him block 3 shots on the penalty kill being 10-15 feet from the shooter sold me on his guts. On the other hand he did drop from 101 down to 65 pts in 77 games after the big contract. Add to that the concussion and it will be interesting to see whether he becomes a European floater going through the motions or an elite leader capable of taking his team all the way.

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Old
11-29-2012, 08:15 AM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Girouxtiful View Post
Since Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, and Datsyuk are out of the way, we'll add Giroux, Toews, Tavares, Sedin, Kopitar, Thornton, Spezza...could probably go on with an argument for guys like Staal or even Patrick Kane/Seguin if you consider those two centers.

I love Backstrom and his game - definitely a top tier player - but not a top 10 center right now.
How is Tyler Seguin even arguably better than Backstrom? I'd love to hear that argument.

Backstrom is an arguable top 10 center and is ridiculously underrated.

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11-29-2012, 08:46 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by PayItForward View Post
How is Tyler Seguin even arguably better than Backstrom? I'd love to hear that argument.

Backstrom is an arguable top 10 center and is ridiculously underrated.
Backstrom is a great player, and certainly better than Seguin right now, but:
Seguin is 4 years younger
Coming off a breakout season where he had more points than Backstrom has had in two years (I know, injuries, just sayin)
and is tearing apart the Swiss league right now, outperforming other high profile NHL'ers like Nash, Thornton, Couture, Tavares, Spezza.

I think Seguin has the potential to be better than Backstrom. Let's see how he performs when the NHL returns, but his value would certainly be close right now.

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11-29-2012, 09:05 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by cneely View Post
Backstrom is a great player, and certainly better than Seguin right now, but:
Seguin is 4 years younger
Coming off a breakout season where he had more points than Backstrom has had in two years (I know, injuries, just sayin)
and is tearing apart the Swiss league right now, outperforming other high profile NHL'ers like Nash, Thornton, Couture, Tavares, Spezza.

I think Seguin has the potential to be better than Backstrom. Let's see how he performs when the NHL returns, but his value would certainly be close right now.
The past 2 years
Seguin: 155 games, 89 points
Backstrom: 119 games, 109 points

Backstrom has outperformed Seguin in the past 2 years. It's because he missed a ton of games that he hasn't put up more points, not because Seguin was better than him last year.

And Backstrom is playing well in the KHL, which is better than the Swiss league.

I'm not saying Seguin doesn't have the potential to be better, but he's not right now and honestly it's not even close. I'm not even commenting on the trade, which isn't going to happen, just that people severely underrate Backstrom.

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Old
11-29-2012, 10:21 AM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Girouxtiful View Post
Since Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, and Datsyuk are out of the way, we'll add Giroux, Toews, Tavares, Sedin, Kopitar, Thornton, Spezza...could probably go on with an argument for guys like Staal or even Patrick Kane/Seguin if you consider those two centers.

I love Backstrom and his game - definitely a top tier player - but not a top 10 center right now.
I'm sorry but there is no way these guys can be put ahead of Backstrom. This just shows how severely underrated he really is.

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Old
11-29-2012, 10:48 AM
  #140
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I've seen the Backstrom vs Krejci debate properly addressed here; but I haven't seen anybody properly explain how Marchand isn't nearly that much better than Chimera.

I'll say again, I can see that this would improve the Bruins first line; but it would definitely weaken their second line, and their depth (which besides goaltending was the main reason for their Cup victory), and cost them a 1st rounder as well.

I don't think the upgrade on the first line is worth the added cost. No matter how much better Backstrom is than Krejci; and with both being at a .8 PPG average in the playoffs, I'm not sure how significant that upgrade would be.

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Old
11-29-2012, 11:21 AM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Girouxtiful View Post
Since Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, and Datsyuk are out of the way, we'll add Giroux, Toews, Tavares, Sedin, Kopitar, Thornton, Spezza...could probably go on with an argument for guys like Staal or even Patrick Kane/Seguin if you consider those two centers.

I love Backstrom and his game - definitely a top tier player - but not a top 10 center right now.
Ugh...

There are a grand total of nine active players who are above a point/game in their careers. Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Selanne, and Jagr are wingers. That leaves Crosby, Malkin, Spezza, Backstrom, and Stamkos as the only active, career PPG centers in the league. Meaning that Backstrom has a higher career PPG than likely HoFers like Thornton and Datsyuk. People don't seem to realize how elite Backstrom has been over the beginning of his career since he's been relatively quiet the past two seasons. If it weren't for Rene Bourque's elbow, there wouldn't even be a question about this right now.

I have no doubt that Backstrom is ahead of guys like Kopitar, Tavares, Seguin, Giroux and Staal. And I'd take him ahead of Toews and Sedin as well, but that's a matter of personal preference. And to compare him with Patrick Kane is completely laughable. Even if Kane was really a center, he's one dimensional and isn't even as good as that aspect of the game as Backstrom (let alone Backstrom's vastly superior defense).

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Old
11-29-2012, 11:50 AM
  #142
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1-4: Crosby, Malkin, Giroux, Stamkos
5-10: Backstrom, Tavares, Toews, Sedin, Spezza, Kopitar
11-XX: Thornton, etc.

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Old
11-29-2012, 11:55 AM
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Girouxtiful View Post
Since Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, and Datsyuk are out of the way, we'll add Giroux, Toews, Tavares, Sedin, Kopitar, Thornton, Spezza...could probably go on with an argument for guys like Staal or even Patrick Kane/Seguin if you consider those two centers.

I love Backstrom and his game - definitely a top tier player - but not a top 10 center right now.
Kopitar is extremely overrated on here... he's not a better player than Backstrom. Neither is Spezza, or Thornton. (anymore)

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Old
11-29-2012, 12:15 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by PayItForward View Post
The past 2 years
Seguin: 155 games, 89 points
Backstrom: 119 games, 109 points

Backstrom has outperformed Seguin in the past 2 years. It's because he missed a ton of games that he hasn't put up more points, not because Seguin was better than him last year.

And Backstrom is playing well in the KHL, which is better than the Swiss league.

I'm not saying Seguin doesn't have the potential to be better, but he's not right now and honestly it's not even close. I'm not even commenting on the trade, which isn't going to happen, just that people severely underrate Backstrom.
The two year argument for Seguin is a horrible argument, he barely got ice time. I don't wanna start this argument to derail the thread, but Seguin in his 2nd year was a completely different player than in his 1st year. Typically one has to play to perform. Seguin wasn't ready in his first season to be a steady contributor, and he definitely wasn't reliable enough defensively (then again, what 18 year olds are?). Hall likely would have gotten the same treatment, although he was more NHL ready at 18.

Backstrom is definitely better than Seguin right now, but it absolutely is "close." No one would be that surprised if Seguin put up more points than Backstrom next year. I for one woudl not trade Seguin for Backstrom, and I'm quite positive Washington wouldnt do that trade either, or the OP.

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Old
11-29-2012, 12:18 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by SPV View Post
I've seen the Backstrom vs Krejci debate properly addressed here; but I haven't seen anybody properly explain how Marchand isn't nearly that much better than Chimera.

I'll say again, I can see that this would improve the Bruins first line; but it would definitely weaken their second line, and their depth (which besides goaltending was the main reason for their Cup victory), and cost them a 1st rounder as well.

I don't think the upgrade on the first line is worth the added cost. No matter how much better Backstrom is than Krejci; and with both being at a .8 PPG average in the playoffs, I'm not sure how significant that upgrade would be.
Regular Season:

Backstrom 1.00 PPG
Krejci 0.73 PPG

Playoffs:

Backstrom 0.80 PPG
Krejci 0.80 PPG

- - - - -

Backstrom is clearly the better regular season player. However in the Playoffs they are equal, both averaging same PPG (.80) average (Krejci in 59 games, Backstrom in 50).

Now once we add into this deal the 24yr old Marchand who just posted 28g, 27a, 55pts in 76 games, IMO the proposal starts to lean in Washingtons direction. Marchand during the Bruins Cup run 11g, 8a, 19pts in 25 games played. He is far from a "throw in" in a trade proposal.

*Also keep in mind, Backstrom makes $6.7m, Krejci JUST signed for $5.2m. A raise from the $3.75 he was making up until the start of this season (IF it starts)

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Old
11-29-2012, 12:19 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Ugh...

There are a grand total of nine active players who are above a point/game in their careers. Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Selanne, and Jagr are wingers. That leaves Crosby, Malkin, Spezza, Backstrom, and Stamkos as the only active, career PPG centers in the league. Meaning that Backstrom has a higher career PPG than likely HoFers like Thornton and Datsyuk. People don't seem to realize how elite Backstrom has been over the beginning of his career since he's been relatively quiet the past two seasons. If it weren't for Rene Bourque's elbow, there wouldn't even be a question about this right now.

I have no doubt that Backstrom is ahead of guys like Kopitar, Tavares, Seguin, Giroux and Staal. And I'd take him ahead of Toews and Sedin as well, but that's a matter of personal preference. And to compare him with Patrick Kane is completely laughable. Even if Kane was really a center, he's one dimensional and isn't even as good as that aspect of the game as Backstrom (let alone Backstrom's vastly superior defense).
You'd take Backstrom over Tavares Giroux and Toews? Have to disagree with that...

Kopitar, Seguin and Kane I agree with though (could change in the future).

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Old
11-29-2012, 01:05 PM
  #147
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You talk about regular season like it's a 82-game long preseason. You've gotta make the playoffs to perform there.

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Old
11-29-2012, 01:11 PM
  #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
You'd take Backstrom over Tavares Giroux and Toews? Have to disagree with that...

Kopitar, Seguin and Kane I agree with though (could change in the future).
Tavares, Giroux, and Toews are all under a PPG in their career while Backstrom is just above a PPG. Closest one is Giroux at .9

Backstrom also had the most points his rookie year (69) compared to Toews (54), Giroux (27), and Tavares (54)

Edit: And don't say blah blah blah he had Ovechkin to play with. Ovechkin benefits from Backstrom and the numbers have proven that when Nicky has been out of the lineup and Ovie has played with guys like Laich and Marcus Johansson

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Old
11-29-2012, 01:31 PM
  #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hb11xchamps View Post
Tavares, Giroux, and Toews are all under a PPG in their career while Backstrom is just above a PPG. Closest one is Giroux at .9

Backstrom also had the most points his rookie year (69) compared to Toews (54), Giroux (27), and Tavares (54)

Edit: And don't say blah blah blah he had Ovechkin to play with. Ovechkin benefits from Backstrom and the numbers have proven that when Nicky has been out of the lineup and Ovie has played with guys like Laich and Marcus Johansson
You do realize there is more to being a center than points, right?

Both Toews/Giroux are better defensively. Also, citing how a 25 year old is "better" because he outscored them his rookie year (when he was 19) isnt the best argument.

I take Toews/Giroux in a heartbeat over Backstrom, Tavares is just personal preference.

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11-29-2012, 02:02 PM
  #150
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You talk about regular season like it's a 82-game long preseason. You've gotta make the playoffs to perform there.
Where in my post did I suggest that?

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