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2013 NHL Draft Prospects I

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Old
11-27-2012, 05:24 PM
  #176
ThatGuy22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Prospects we have who are "small" yet skilled:
Zucker, Granlund, Haula

Prospects we have who are "big" and tough:
Bulmer, Bussieres, Palmieri

Prospects we have who are "big" and skilled:
Coyle, Brodin, Scandella, Lucia

Prospects we have who are "average" and skilled:
Dumba, Larsson, Phillips

I'd say we have a pretty decent cross-section of small, average, and big players as well as big guys who are tough and big guys who are skilled.
Haula's listed at 5'11', isn't that pretty average height?

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11-27-2012, 05:28 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by ThatGuy22 View Post
Haula's listed at 5'11', isn't that pretty average height?
For regular humans, yes. NHL player average is around 6'1''

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11-27-2012, 05:46 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by ThatGuy22 View Post
Haula's listed at 5'11', isn't that pretty average height?
I have Haula at 5'10. Personally I don't care. A good player is a good player. Some guys are just obsessed with height as if it makes a difference.

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11-27-2012, 06:57 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Some guys are just obsessed with height as if it makes a difference.
Would it be nice to have a gigantic defenseman that can score goals and smash into people? Yes! Everyone would love that but realistically, they don't come around too often.

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11-27-2012, 07:28 PM
  #180
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Zadarov sounds interesting but as long as Leipold owns the team i don't see us getting a russian outside ovechin/malkin type, as in we're picking 1st and the guy at the top is just clear as day better then everyone else and he's russian.

as to why, Leipold had to deal with Radulov, doubt he wants to chance it again

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11-27-2012, 07:30 PM
  #181
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as far as the height argument, simply put you need to be tall enough to get a body strong enough to play in the NHL

200lbs at 5'6'' is a fatty, 200 lbs at 5'11'' is well built, 160 lbs is just not enough for the nhl to be an effective player, some can like spurgie but its a rare situation

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11-29-2012, 03:29 PM
  #182
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imo the wild lack a big, strong crease clearing D-man. falk & stoner dont seem 2b the answer. i may have asked this ? someplace else but how will the 2013 draft work if no season? thx in advance.

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11-29-2012, 03:32 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by DANOZ28 View Post
imo the wild lack a big, strong crease clearing D-man. falk & stoner dont seem 2b the answer. i may have asked this ? someplace else but how will the 2013 draft work if no season? thx in advance.
Like this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_NHL_Entry_Draft

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11-29-2012, 04:08 PM
  #184
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thank you! gold star! i've been looking for that answer for a month. you rock!

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11-29-2012, 08:01 PM
  #185
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Hopefully it doesn't work exactly like that. We were not at our finest. I trust this current regime a lot more, though.

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11-29-2012, 09:48 PM
  #186
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It could work like that. But no one can know how it will work until an agreement is reached between the PA and league.

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11-29-2012, 10:05 PM
  #187
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We're just seeing that history may repeat itself. Which, is a good chance.

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11-30-2012, 05:21 AM
  #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Victorious Secret View Post
We're just seeing that history may repeat itself. Which, is a good chance.
So, we draft another soft & useless player instead of the future all-stars?

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Old
11-30-2012, 09:37 AM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forthewild View Post
Zadarov sounds interesting but as long as Leipold owns the team i don't see us getting a russian outside ovechin/malkin type, as in we're picking 1st and the guy at the top is just clear as day better then everyone else and he's russian.

as to why, Leipold had to deal with Radulov, doubt he wants to chance it again
Nothing wrong with Russians, but why deal with the headache? And this has nothing to do with anything innate in Russians - it just has everything to do with geography and economics. KHL is the major competitor to the NHL. They can offer more money than any other league for star NHL players. More money, closer to home, it is logical that Russian players would think about the KHL.

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11-30-2012, 10:26 AM
  #190
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As I pointed out repeatedly last year, no high draft pick Russian (I believe it's 14th overall or higher) has "abandoned" the NHL. Filatov bombed out and failed to reach the NHL, but other than that, I believe Radulov was the highest drafted player (15th overall) to skip town. Even then, the Preds still ended up getting 154 games and 102 points out of him. The "Russian factor" could be a thing GMs consider, but for the usual lottery portion of the draft, it's not something that actually has a history of occurring. It's like commercial airline crashes. They're extremely rare (off the top of my head, I believe you're about two to five times more likely to be killed by lightning than in any plane crash, and most of those crashes are from general aviation, not commercial) but they're also extremely high profile. The huge hullabaloo about one crash makes people think they happen frequently, and makes many people behave as though they happen frequently. But they are actually exceedingly rare.

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11-30-2012, 11:30 AM
  #191
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There's been a lot of things that have led up to the negative Russian rep, some of them founded, some of them unfounded.



(I'm going with drafted out of Russia/KHL and not Russian birth or heritage)

From 2000-2004, there were 19 Russians selected in the first round. Of those, eight were busts, four were decent players, and six were very good picks. The last player was Radulov, who of course fled to Russia when he faced some challenges.

I think the big problem was with the new CBA, there wasn't a transfer agreement with Russia, so there was no protection from the Russian leagues. From 2005-2011, only 9 Russians were selected in the first round, and you could argue each year the draft position dropped due to their nationality.

Looking closer at some of them...

2005 - None drafted for the first time since 1998, but a weak draft class. No Russians drafted made the NHL.

2007 - Cherepanov. Dropped quite a ways due to the "Russian" factor. Tragically died so hard to analyze, but the operation of the Russian league might have contributed to his death.

2008 - Filatov. Said to be a "sure thing" as he learned English beforehand and promised to play in the NHL. Famously bailed to Russia over disagreements with Ken Hitchcock. Traded for peanuts and bailed again the next year from Ottawa.

2009 - No Russians drafted.

2010 - Tarasenko. One of the highest rated prospects but hasn't come over to the NHL, choosing to play in the KHL.

2010 - Kuznetsov. Another highly rated prospect who continues to play in the KHL over the NHL.

2011 - No Russians drafted.



Since Ovechkin/Malkin, there haven't been any Russians drafted in the first round who have been significant impact players (you could argue Varlamov, but I'd say he's not a significant player at this point). That's seven years.

Now, Tarasenko and Kuznetsov could change things, and players like Burmistov, Kulikov, Yakupov, and Grigorenko have shown that for Russians who want to make the NHL, playing in North America first is a real statement to teams headed into the draft.

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Old
11-30-2012, 12:13 PM
  #192
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I'm watching Lehkonen's game (KalPa-Ilves) at the moment. He's made some sick passes. He's more of a goal scorer kind of player but he has shown a lot of intelligence on the ice too. Still remains as the most intriguing Finnish prospect of the upcoming draft for me.

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Old
11-30-2012, 12:19 PM
  #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
There's been a lot of things that have led up to the negative Russian rep, some of them founded, some of them unfounded.



(I'm going with drafted out of Russia/KHL and not Russian birth or heritage)

From 2000-2004, there were 19 Russians selected in the first round. Of those, eight were busts, four were decent players, and six were very good picks. The last player was Radulov, who of course fled to Russia when he faced some challenges.

I think the big problem was with the new CBA, there wasn't a transfer agreement with Russia, so there was no protection from the Russian leagues. From 2005-2011, only 9 Russians were selected in the first round, and you could argue each year the draft position dropped due to their nationality.

Looking closer at some of them...

2005 - None drafted for the first time since 1998, but a weak draft class. No Russians drafted made the NHL.

2007 - Cherepanov. Dropped quite a ways due to the "Russian" factor. Tragically died so hard to analyze, but the operation of the Russian league might have contributed to his death.

2008 - Filatov. Said to be a "sure thing" as he learned English beforehand and promised to play in the NHL. Famously bailed to Russia over disagreements with Ken Hitchcock. Traded for peanuts and bailed again the next year from Ottawa.

2009 - No Russians drafted.

2010 - Tarasenko. One of the highest rated prospects but hasn't come over to the NHL, choosing to play in the KHL.

2010 - Kuznetsov. Another highly rated prospect who continues to play in the KHL over the NHL.

2011 - No Russians drafted.



Since Ovechkin/Malkin, there haven't been any Russians drafted in the first round who have been significant impact players (you could argue Varlamov, but I'd say he's not a significant player at this point). That's seven years.

Now, Tarasenko and Kuznetsov could change things, and players like Burmistov, Kulikov, Yakupov, and Grigorenko have shown that for Russians who want to make the NHL, playing in North America first is a real statement to teams headed into the draft.
Filatov's problem was that he's not a good player, and not willing to work to improve (Filly don't do rebounds).

I'd argue you have to consider Varlamov a significant player. He's a legitimate starting goalie and Washington ended up receiving Filip Forsberg and Mike Ribiero (after adding Cody Eakin) for Varlamov. Turning the 23rd overall pick into an 11th overall pick plus a second rounder has to be seen as a success.

While the first round has been pretty barren for Russian talent lately, there have still been some players beyond that artificial cut off. Slava Voynov (32nd overall, 2008) came over directly from Russia and played a significant role in the Kings cup victory. Nikolai Kulemin (44th overall, 2006) has over 300 games played and over 150 points. Artem Anisimov (54th overall, 2006) has nearly 250 games played and over 100 points. Dmitry Orlov (55th overall, 2009) has one pro season under his belt, is currently in the AHL, and is penciled in for the Capitals' future blue line.

As for first rounders, you left out Namestnikov in 2011. Neither Kuznetsov nor Tarasenko played CHL. None of Kulikov, Orlov, Voynov, Varlamov, Kulemin, or Anisimov did either. Looking through the list of first rounders from 2005 onward, only Cherepanov, Filatov, Vishnevsky (3 AHL/NHL seasons and I don't think Dallas even offered him a second contract), and Tikhonov (3 AHL/NHL seasons, no idea on the story there) failed to become full time NHLers, and three of them had multiple NHL/AHL seasons (and the third can't be considered because of Cherepanov's situation). If Kuznetsov and Tarasenko come over (seems Tarasenko is all but guaranteed, Kuznetsov seems more unsure) there will literally be no real "Russian factor" situations since 2005. In fact, all first round drafted Russians since 2002 either completed an ELC (excluding Cherepanov). That might include 2001 as well (not sure if Knyazev's 2 AHL years completed his ELC).

The last Russian player who failed to ever come over to the AHL/NHL is Artyom Kryukov (15th overall, 2000). Other than him, I don't see that another first round Russian ever failed to play at least a season in the NHL/AHL.

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11-30-2012, 01:00 PM
  #194
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With the "Russian factor" you have to consider not just walking out of NHL contracts but not coming over in the first place as well as just not a lot of talent.

Looking from 2005 onward, only three players TOTAL were drafted out of Russia/KHL that stuck in the NHL: Varlamov, Anisimov, and Kulemin. Obviously the jury is out for the last few years, but that is a LONG drought. Now if you include Russian nationalities (I was just talking about Russian leagues), you can add Burmistov to make four total players. It's still amazingly low. EDIT: missed Voynov, good catch. So that's five players.

BTW my arbitrary first round cutoff point was because you were talking about high draft picks.

Personally with a high draft pick (top 10 or so), unless it's a clear home-run type player (Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Malkin) or the second best PA is a HUGE drop off, I'd probably skip a kid out of the KHL. Just too high risk for the reward unless the reward is huge.

Then again, the Wild are in the same position that say New York was with Cherepanov in 2007 or Washington with Kuznetsov in 2010. We have plenty of players and prospects under contract now and can afford to take a longer-term risk. If the player does come out and play for you, he'll have several years of pro hockey under his belt and be fairly polished. So a mid- to late-first round wouldn't be a bad risk IMO.

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11-30-2012, 01:36 PM
  #195
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Here's a nice breakaway pass from Lehkonen.

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11-30-2012, 01:37 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
With the "Russian factor" you have to consider not just walking out of NHL contracts but not coming over in the first place as well as just not a lot of talent.

Looking from 2005 onward, only three players TOTAL were drafted out of Russia/KHL that stuck in the NHL: Varlamov, Anisimov, and Kulemin. Obviously the jury is out for the last few years, but that is a LONG drought. Now if you include Russian nationalities (I was just talking about Russian leagues), you can add Burmistov to make four total players. It's still amazingly low. EDIT: missed Voynov, good catch. So that's five players.

BTW my arbitrary first round cutoff point was because you were talking about high draft picks.

Personally with a high draft pick (top 10 or so), unless it's a clear home-run type player (Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Malkin) or the second best PA is a HUGE drop off, I'd probably skip a kid out of the KHL. Just too high risk for the reward unless the reward is huge.

Then again, the Wild are in the same position that say New York was with Cherepanov in 2007 or Washington with Kuznetsov in 2010. We have plenty of players and prospects under contract now and can afford to take a longer-term risk. If the player does come out and play for you, he'll have several years of pro hockey under his belt and be fairly polished. So a mid- to late-first round wouldn't be a bad risk IMO.
Yes, there's only a few high Russian (nationality) picks who stuck, but it was still a fairly high percentage who worked out. Cherepanov obviously should be excluded from any count, but other than Filatov (who was a bust, would have been the same bust if he were Canadian) you have Vishnevsky (27th overall, 2006) who was drafted out of the Q who it appears simply failed to make an NHL roster and Dmitry Kulikov (14th overall, 2009) also drafted out of the Q who appears to have headed back to the KHL after 3 NHL seasons.

The point is, when you're drafting a guy high (like a Yakupov, Malkin, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, or presumably a Nichushkin) there's been zero cases of a player fleeing to Russia. There has never been a top 10 Russian pick who failed to end up with a long NHL career except for Filatov, who was a bust, not a flight issue.

In fact, the only real risk zone with Russians seems to be drafting them out of the Q right in the middle of the round or drafting them at the very end of the first. Buffalo should be more worried about Grigorenko than any teams should be afraid of Nichushkin.

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11-30-2012, 02:33 PM
  #197
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You could say the "Russian effect" was there for Kabanov, who was talked about as a high first rounder but fell to the third. But he had some other issues going on...

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11-30-2012, 06:49 PM
  #198
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To be fair Tarasenko did sign a contract and was ready to play in NA but the lockout happened

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12-01-2012, 05:10 PM
  #199
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Here is a chart that might help people look at the potential in the draft for the Wild. The lockout could greatly help the Wild in the draft compared to if there was a season and where they would likely draft (last )



http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-M18dLgYVTn...if+lockout.jpg

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12-01-2012, 05:24 PM
  #200
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For the 2348972342th time:

The way the 2005 Draft occurred does not necessarily have any relevance. There's no real reason to think the same rules will apply this year. If the league and NHLPA so desired, they could draft in alphabetical order.

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