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2012 CBA Discussion Part IV (Lockout talk here)

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Old
11-29-2012, 02:07 PM
  #926
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Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
Lost in all this, great group of player the Bruins have to step in and cover such a cost.

I think I'll just keep on being proud to be a Bruins fan no matter what Twitter tells me to do.
This group of guys are unique in this day and age of sports... Not many tight knit crews like this one...Will always be proud to be a Bruins fan.

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11-29-2012, 02:28 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by bruinsfan46 View Post
The Wiki link says there's exemptions for gifts received under $13,000 a year, no idea about state laws. Some employees might wish they made cheaper rings. Sucks that it works out that way for someone who answers phones for a living but that's the law.
The exemption is $10,000 per year, adjusted for inflation, which is now $13,000, pursuant to IRC Section 2503(b). Additionally, there is a $1,000,000 lifetime exemption, that was raised to $5,000,000 as part of the 2010 Obama extension of the Bush tax cuts and expires at the end of the calendar year. However, Congress also has a claw back provision built in that allows them to retroactively lower the exemption and come back after you for the taxes. There is all kinds of planning around this currently under the assumption that the tax cuts will not be renewed in 2013. Just worked on a issue involving this today regarding a target company's shareholder wanting to transfer his stock prior to the consummation of the transaction I'm working on.

In regard to the rings, I didn't read the article, but did Jacobs pay gift tax on them? I would think they would be considered comp (query whether it is reasonable for purposes of a 162(m) deduction) and included in the taxable income of the recipient employees. Therefore should have been W-2'd and withheld upon. I would think the only way to force the employee to foot the tax burden directly would be to 1099 the rings, but even then, you're going to have to prove independent contractor status to qualify and not open yourself up to an employment tax exposure.

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11-29-2012, 02:32 PM
  #928
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Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
Exactly my man. Jacobs wasn't going to play by the rules set forth by the Rangers, RedWings and Flyers or the world. He was interested in actually making money..the gall of a business owner!
Ugh.

I have said this over and over, but if your goal is to turn your money into more money, buying a sports team is the dumbest way to do it. It is a stupid business venture.

And fine, let Jacobs run his team like a business. But sports are a totally unique animal, and the business only (only) works if a large group of people care about it irrationally.

You don't have the business of owning a sports team without fans.

So to treat Jacobs like the poor old innocent business owner just trying to make a buck ignores the reality of the situation.

Fine, try to make a buck. But you aren't getting my love, nor do you deserve it. I care if the team wins, not if Jeremy jacobs makes money. The second I change my priorities is, ironically, the day he stops getting my business.

I bet some of you watch It's A Wonderful Life and root for Old Man Potter. The poor business man!

Well obviously Morris does.

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11-29-2012, 02:35 PM
  #929
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Originally Posted by Deal Law View Post
The exemption is $10,000 per year, adjusted for inflation, which is now $13,000, pursuant to IRC Section 2503(b). Additionally, there is a $1,000,000 lifetime exemption, that was raised to $5,000,000 as part of the 2010 Obama extension of the Bush tax cuts and expires at the end of the calendar year. However, Congress also has a claw back provision built in that allows them to retroactively lower the exemption and come back after you for the taxes. There is all kinds of planning around this currently under the assumption that the tax cuts will not be renewed in 2013. Just worked on a issue involving this today regarding a target company's shareholder wanting to transfer his stock prior to the consummation of the transaction I'm working on.

In regard to the rings, I didn't read the article, but did Jacobs pay gift tax on them? I would think they would be considered comp (query whether it is reasonable for purposes of a 162(m) deduction) and included in the taxable income of the recipient employees. Therefore should have been W-2'd and withheld upon. I would think the only way to force the employee to foot the tax burden directly would be to 1099 the rings, but even then, you're going to have to prove independent contractor status to qualify and not open yourself up to an employment tax exposure.
You're very knowledgeable in your field. Good post

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11-29-2012, 02:36 PM
  #930
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Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
Ugh.

I have said this over and over, but if your goal is to turn your money into more money, buying a sports team is the dumbest way to do it. It is a stupid business venture.

And fine, let Jacobs run his team like a business. But sports are a totally unique animal, and the business only (only) works if a large group of people care about it irrationally.

You don't have the business of owning a sports team without fans.

So to treat Jacobs like the poor old innocent business owner just trying to make a buck ignores the reality of the situation.

Fine, try to make a buck. But you aren't getting my love, nor do you deserve it. I care if the team wins, not if Jeremy jacobs makes money. The second I change my priorities is, ironically, the day he stops getting my business.

I bet some of you watch It's A Wonderful Life and root for Old Man Potter. The poor business man!

Well obviously Morris does.
I don't like Jacobs, I would much rather have a Kraft type owner.

But I am so done wishing he would sell the team, because he is not. So, why not have the NHL change to meet the needs of Jacobs and the Bruins? Clearly the last lockout benefited them immensely.

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Old
11-29-2012, 02:41 PM
  #931
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Originally Posted by Hnidy Hnight View Post
You're very knowledgeable in your field. Good post
Why thank you! Once in a while I add something to the discussion

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11-29-2012, 02:44 PM
  #932
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Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
His business model was different then some of the other teams. He was in business to turn a profit. He dealt with cost uncertainty year after year and spent about league average...Once a cap was in place, he spent right up to the cap. He often spent more real dollars as well with guys like Savard, Chara and Thomas over their cap number. Who cares how he "used" to be. Different time, different set of rules. He has given his people every resource available to ice a competitive team....Cripes he swallowed Lewis, Schaeffer's and Murray's deals as well...if he was truly the beast some of you say, would he have went 4 mil over the cap during our Cup run? How about committing all that money to Seguin, Lucic, Krejci and Marchand? BasHing Jacobs is like harping on the choke job of the century vs Philly instead of winning the Cup...
shhhh.. this is a greedy players appreciation thread.

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Old
11-29-2012, 03:11 PM
  #933
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Originally Posted by BlackNgold 84 View Post
shhhh.. this is a jeremy jacobs appreciation thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooner st View Post
shhhh.. this is a greedy players appreciation thread.


Even though this place makes me want to jump out a window from time to time, the unintentional comedy is just off the charts.

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11-29-2012, 03:13 PM
  #934
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Originally Posted by Morris Wanchuk View Post
I don't like Jacobs, I would much rather have a Kraft type owner.

But I am so done wishing he would sell the team, because he is not. So, why not have the NHL change to meet the needs of Jacobs and the Bruins? Clearly the last lockout benefited them immensely.
100% agree.

But I am not going to sit here and defend him either.

I give him all the credit for the post-Thornton trade stuff. To not do so is stupid.

But I am also not going to sit here and pretend like everything he ever did was okay. Or that I don't blame him for a significant portion of this current lockout that I find stupid.

(Oh, I also 100% defend his last lockout strategy in regards to the Bruins. NO ONE saw the salary cap and the rollback coming.)

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Old
11-29-2012, 03:14 PM
  #935
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Even though this place makes me want to jump out a window from time to time, the unintentional comedy is just off the charts.
Um....faaaaairly certain the second one was a direct parody of the first one.

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Old
11-29-2012, 03:20 PM
  #936
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Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
Um....faaaaairly certain the second one was a direct parody of the first one.
It was a few pages apart, so I wasn't sure. Either way, it made me laugh.

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Old
11-29-2012, 03:32 PM
  #937
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I actually don't want Jacobs to sell the team. I mean, you can hate him all you want for his past with the team.. but in the cap era, he's as perfect as you can possibly get when it comes to the team. He allows Chia to spend to the cap and he appears to be okay with buyouts.

When it comes to straight capital improving our beloved team, Jacobs has spared no expense in the cap era. Am I wrong?

Meanwhile there are owners of other teams trying to ice a team at the cap floor with seemingly no interest in making their team better. Would we rather have that out of spite?

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11-29-2012, 03:35 PM
  #938
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Originally Posted by Deal Law View Post
The exemption is $10,000 per year, adjusted for inflation, which is now $13,000, pursuant to IRC Section 2503(b). Additionally, there is a $1,000,000 lifetime exemption, that was raised to $5,000,000 as part of the 2010 Obama extension of the Bush tax cuts and expires at the end of the calendar year. However, Congress also has a claw back provision built in that allows them to retroactively lower the exemption and come back after you for the taxes. There is all kinds of planning around this currently under the assumption that the tax cuts will not be renewed in 2013. Just worked on a issue involving this today regarding a target company's shareholder wanting to transfer his stock prior to the consummation of the transaction I'm working on.

In regard to the rings, I didn't read the article, but did Jacobs pay gift tax on them? I would think they would be considered comp (query whether it is reasonable for purposes of a 162(m) deduction) and included in the taxable income of the recipient employees. Therefore should have been W-2'd and withheld upon. I would think the only way to force the employee to foot the tax burden directly would be to 1099 the rings, but even then, you're going to have to prove independent contractor status to qualify and not open yourself up to an employment tax exposure.
Thank you for your informative post

It is possible that he classified the ring as some type of bonus but I think the most likely scenario is that he hit the lifetime max. Either way, the taxing wasn't him "sticking it" to his employees.

Also, don't they have payment plans for those who cant afford the upfront payment?

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Old
11-29-2012, 03:36 PM
  #939
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Originally Posted by SerenityRick View Post
I actually don't want Jacobs to sell the team. I mean, you can hate him all you want for his past with the team.. but in the cap era, he's as perfect as you can possibly get when it comes to the team. He allows Chia to spend to the cap and he appears to be okay with buyouts.

When it comes to straight capital improving our beloved team, Jacobs has spared no expense in the cap era. Am I wrong?

Meanwhile there are owners of other teams trying to ice a team at the cap floor with seemingly no interest in making their team better. Would we rather have that out of spite?
Overwhelmingly you are correct. Not much to fault him on post-Thornton trade as far as the Bruins owner. Plenty these days as a powerful owner pushing the lockout, but we can separate them for this discussion easily.

Although, he is still not an ideal owner because (I believe) he is more guided by making money than he is by winning a championship.

Would you rather a (current) "Jacobs-type-owner" or a "Kraft-type" owner? I think we would all agree we'd rather a "Kraft-type" that (right or wrong) most people think is more guided by a desire to win than by a desire to make money.

Hell, he was more willing to give up his revenue to smaller teams to keep the league going.

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11-29-2012, 03:53 PM
  #940
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Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
Overwhelmingly you are correct. Not much to fault him on post-Thornton trade as far as the Bruins owner. Plenty these days as a powerful owner pushing the lockout, but we can separate them for this discussion easily.

Although, he is still not an ideal owner because (I believe) he is more guided by making money than he is by winning a championship.

Would you rather a (current) "Jacobs-type-owner" or a "Kraft-type" owner? I think we would all agree we'd rather a "Kraft-type" that (right or wrong) most people think is more guided by a desire to win than by a desire to make money.

Hell, he was more willing to give up his revenue to smaller teams to keep the league going.

Of course we'd all rather have a Kraft type.. but those are one in a million type people. Hoping for that type of owner is as naive as thinking peace on Earth is realistic in our lifetime.

With that said, there's nothing wrong with wanting to make more money. Greed is what propels people to build or invent great things.. greed is what grows a business, a league and a sport.

I'm aware many people hate Jacobs with a seething passion.. especially during this lockout. But I find myself agreeing with him more often than not. I don't feel bad for Jacobs.. or think he's getting screwed or anything. But I also don't feel bad for the players. My opinion is formed on what I think is right.

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11-29-2012, 03:59 PM
  #941
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Of course we'd all rather have a Kraft type.. but those are one in a million type people. Hoping for that type of owner is as naive as thinking peace on Earth is realistic in our lifetime.

With that said, there's nothing wrong with wanting to make more money. Greed is what propels people to build or invent great things.. greed is what grows a business, a league and a sport.

I'm aware many people hate Jacobs with a seething passion.. especially during this lockout. But I find myself agreeing with him more often than not. I don't feel bad for Jacobs.. or think he's getting screwed or anything. But I also don't feel bad for the players. My opinion is formed on what I think is right.
There are a lot more Kraft-type owners than just Kraft. They don't all have the success, but many owners are driven by a desire to win more than a desire to make money.

We have two in Boston. The Celtics ownership has easily displayed this to be true.

Not all of them are as competent as Kraft, but it doesn't change their desire. Hell, you can have that desire and still be a horrible owner (Hello Daniel Snyder!).

I think Jeremy Jacobs is a selfish ******* that is holding the league hostage because all he cares about is money, and not the fans that he relies on to make him money.

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Old
11-29-2012, 04:06 PM
  #942
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Didn't this cheap ******* Jacobs buy over 500 Stanley Cup rings?

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11-29-2012, 04:09 PM
  #943
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Didn't this cheap ******* Jacobs buy over 500 Stanley Cup rings?
Ya but, then he forced the people to pay taxes!!!!!!!!!

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Old
11-29-2012, 04:11 PM
  #944
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Ya but, then he forced the people to pay taxes!!!!!!!!!
That ******* ! How come nobody complains when people have to pay taxes after winning a brand new car on the Price is Right?

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11-29-2012, 04:16 PM
  #945
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That ******* ! How come nobody complains when people have to pay taxes after winning a brand new car on the Price is Right?
Bob Barker sucks!

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11-29-2012, 04:18 PM
  #946
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Bob Barker sucks!
Him and Jacobs were the driving force in getting let's make a deal off the air.

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Old
11-29-2012, 04:21 PM
  #947
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Good stuff. Funny and productive.

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Old
11-29-2012, 04:21 PM
  #948
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Didn't this cheap ******* Jacobs buy over 500 Stanley Cup rings?
Didn't some fellow employees step up to cover the tax charges, knowing it was a team effort and not a lottery ? Not hard to understand who's responsible for the lockout and the cancellation of the season when you read **** like this.

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11-29-2012, 04:22 PM
  #949
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Good stuff. Funny and productive.
Oh sorry.

OK people, let's get something done here!

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11-29-2012, 04:23 PM
  #950
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Chrysler plant, here we come.

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