HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Notices

Lockout thread #2: mediation done - no progress

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-29-2012, 05:59 PM
  #876
Reimer
Tambo Troll Face
 
Reimer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,322
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by molsonmuscle360 View Post
In Fort Mac they sure do. I know one guy who was on strike up here with Finning about 5 years ago, who paid some Filipino guy to stand at the strike line for him when he needed to and worked as a blackjack dealer until they went back.
I'm pretty sure Fort Mac is a complete exception to the entire world.

Reimer is offline  
Old
11-29-2012, 06:00 PM
  #877
oilersfan11
Registered User
 
oilersfan11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 11,221
vCash: 50
It's really silly that the season hasn't been cancelled yet.

oilersfan11 is offline  
Old
11-29-2012, 06:04 PM
  #878
okgooil
HFBoards Sponsor
 
okgooil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 12,026
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reimer View Post
I'm pretty sure Fort Mac is a complete exception to the entire world.
The UN actually passed an agreement to consider Fort Mac another planted unto itself.

okgooil is offline  
Old
11-29-2012, 06:04 PM
  #879
TowMater14
Registered User
 
TowMater14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: OIL COUNTRY
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,813
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
It's really silly that the season hasn't been cancelled yet.
At this point if they don't have an agreement...I agree. Hopefully we can get some OKC games on TV.

TowMater14 is offline  
Old
11-29-2012, 06:05 PM
  #880
402
#ualberta
 
402's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Edmonton
Country: Egypt
Posts: 2,853
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
It's really silly that the season hasn't been cancelled yet.
How so? I fail to see the silliness
If a deal is reached in a week there would still be a 50 or more game season the date today is november 29 i'm not saying we are on the verge of seeing a deal signed but why would the league cancel the rest of the season while there are so many unknowns what if the players cave and take the offer in mid december

402 is offline  
Old
11-29-2012, 06:13 PM
  #881
GMofOilers
Registered User
 
GMofOilers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Mountains
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,837
vCash: 500
I still think they would be way to silly not to do a deal this year. I still feel we get a deal done.

GMofOilers is offline  
Old
11-29-2012, 06:15 PM
  #882
okgooil
HFBoards Sponsor
 
okgooil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 12,026
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMofOilers View Post
I still think they would be way to silly not to do a deal this year. I still feel we get a deal done.
I keep thinking this as well, but, it just seems to become more and more unlikely. Both sides are just cought in a game of chicken now, and neither wants to blink. Shame really. When a actual Mediator throws up his hands, well, I see trouble.

okgooil is offline  
Old
11-29-2012, 06:18 PM
  #883
GMofOilers
Registered User
 
GMofOilers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Mountains
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,837
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by okgooil View Post
I keep thinking this as well, but, it just seems to become more and more unlikely. Both sides are just cought in a game of chicken now, and neither wants to blink. Shame really. When a actual Mediator throws up his hands, well, I see trouble.
Nah, the mediator thing is all just a ploy they have to do. No one in this world actually thought mediation was going to get a deal done?!?!

The owners wanna play, they are idiots to be fighting over not playing IMO and they know it, its just going to take some time to show up. Its going to take a drop dead date on the season, than egos will be checked at the door finally. IMO

I could be totally wrong, just hope not

GMofOilers is offline  
Old
11-29-2012, 06:23 PM
  #884
dnicks17
Moderator
.
 
dnicks17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,561
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMofOilers View Post
Nah, the mediator thing is all just a ploy they have to do. No one in this world actually thought mediation was going to get a deal done?!?!

The owners wanna play, they are idiots to be fighting over not playing IMO and they know it, its just going to take some time to show up. Its going to take a drop dead date on the season, than egos will be checked at the door finally. IMO

I could be totally wrong, just hope not
You think Fehr is going to check his ego at the door? Fat chance, imo.

That "NHLPA Disclaimer of Interest" thing sounds like this season's only hope to me.

dnicks17 is offline  
Old
11-29-2012, 06:25 PM
  #885
GMofOilers
Registered User
 
GMofOilers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Mountains
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,837
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
You think Fehr is going to check his ego at the door? Fat chance, imo.

That "NHLPA Disclaimer of Interest" thing sounds like this season's only hope to me.
The players tell Fehr what to do with of course Fehrs guidance, but if owners can blink first the players will follow.

I think this players and owners meeting would be great.

GMofOilers is offline  
Old
11-29-2012, 06:49 PM
  #886
Groucho
Tier 1 Fan
 
Groucho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Displaced
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,614
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMofOilers View Post
I still think they would be way to silly not to do a deal this year. I still feel we get a deal done.
If a deal was going to get done, it would have been done already IMO.
Fehr keeps telling the players they have more time, the NHL's deadlines are ********, etc...
Owners just cancel the season already, I don't see the point of playing a 48 game season. It's a joke.

Groucho is offline  
Old
11-29-2012, 06:53 PM
  #887
Matt Ryan
Falcons Rise Up
 
Matt Ryan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Atlanta
Country: United States
Posts: 3,174
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
If a deal was going to get done, it would have been done already IMO.
Fehr keeps telling the players they have more time, the NHL's deadlines are ********, etc...
Owners just cancel the season already, I don't see the point of playing a 48 game season. It's a joke.
I agree with this assessment.

Matt Ryan is offline  
Old
11-29-2012, 06:58 PM
  #888
CupofOil
Registered User
 
CupofOil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Rock Bottom
Country: United States
Posts: 13,600
vCash: 500
I find myself not caring anymore, haven't really cared since they made no progress after 3 days of long meetings and the fact that i don't care makes me sad.
If they miraculously come to a resolution and salvage some sort of season, i'll be back but if/when the season is cancelled, i am totally numb to it.
I feel bad for those who think that this season will be saved because it's supposedly following the same path that the NBA did. The reality is that Billy Hunter is a pushover compared to Fehr so all comparisons to the NBA labor situation should stop there. I think this has played out exactly the way Fehr planned it and the owners are wise to his game so what we essentially have is a staring contest. I don't see any blinking for a very long time and if Fehr thinks that the threat of decertification or "NHLPA Disclaimer of Interest" will force the owners to concede then he is in for a rude awakening.

It's shocking that they let it come to this due to principle and holding their respective ground or in other words, protecting their massive egos.
The last lockout was understandable since the entire financial landscape of the NHL was in limbo, this one makes no sense whatsoever and if they think that the fans will come back in droves like they did last time, they have another thing coming. The fans seem A LOT more apathetic this time around.

CupofOil is online now  
Old
11-29-2012, 07:09 PM
  #889
oilinblood
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,196
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
If a deal was going to get done, it would have been done already IMO.
Fehr keeps telling the players they have more time, the NHL's deadlines are ********, etc...
Owners just cancel the season already, I don't see the point of playing a 48 game season. It's a joke.
agreed. most hard-core hockey fans dont count 95 as an actual season.

personally from a business stand point, once all those christmas brand promotions have to be cancelled for your sponsors i say the season is done. If the lockout is still happening on Dec. 10 th, bettman should tell sponsors to keep the promo materials in storage and that the NHL is going to cancel the season.

Let all the sponsors know and let them move on to make other arrangements. The NHL doesnt have to cave to PA demands in order to retain good sponsor relationships you just have to respect the sponsors enough to quit drgging them and the fans along. CANCEL THE SEASON.

oilinblood is offline  
Old
11-29-2012, 07:46 PM
  #890
Matador
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,352
vCash: 500
It will be interesting to see if the player-owner meeting goes ahead. The players are quick to lay criticism on Bettman, but often backtrack on negative comments made regarding the owners. My guess is Fehr would like to advise against the meeting, but the perceptions of doing so would be bad.

Matador is offline  
Old
11-29-2012, 07:58 PM
  #891
oilinblood
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,196
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matador View Post
It will be interesting to see if the player-owner meeting goes ahead. The players are quick to lay criticism on Bettman, but often backtrack on negative comments made regarding the owners. My guess is Fehr would like to advise against the meeting, but the perceptions of doing so would be bad.
agreed on all counts. I have not been surprised that Flyers players have been relatively hush hush about directing comments towards Bettman. Most players are smart enough to know that throwing an insult at Bettman is indirectly insulting their own owner and employer. On the other hand i am mildly interested to see what happens with Chicagos loud mouths in the months after a new CBA. The Wirtz family is among Bettmans strongest supporters, but continue to use former President Ziegler as one of their reps at BOG meetings (which i have heard Bettman doesnt like for a number of reasons that dont involve the fact its his predecessor -- and alot more to do with the fact Bettman tried to clean up the NHL and its image yet Ziegler is still around helping make decisions). In other industries employees would find themselves in very hostile territory once work resumed after having made such comments.

As for your preceding comment about players- owners meeting, i think Bettman is playing a strong card here. I think Bettman is actually in the middle of moderate and hard-line when it comes to voicing his constituents wants in this battle. I think its clear he has conceded more than a good portion of owners wanted him to and less than some of the more moderates and desperate teams -winnipeg etc. The meetings, if they took place, might first show owners what Bettman is working against and for which might galvanize his owners in his vision, second it could show the Players who they are really saying no to and taking shots at.
All in all, as you said... the PA and Fehr just got pushed to another wall by Bettman. They have to accept this. I would say Bettman should have chose the players and owners... a good mix of owner moderates and hardliners on one side and a good mix of star rookies, veteran role players, short career enforcers, veteran stars, and younger LT contract stars. If the PA counters with Yes... here is Toewes, Crosby, Ovechkin...wait he is in the KHL taking someones job... ummm Malkin...nope.... ok take Toewes Gomez Horcoff Redden and Crosby. there you go. Bettman should have picked the players and Owners first.

The owners are also the ones that often employ and job train alot of the loyal players for futures beyond their playing career and well above their education and intelectual ability (part of the reason we are in this mess --Garth Snow)


Last edited by oilinblood: 11-29-2012 at 08:10 PM.
oilinblood is offline  
Old
11-29-2012, 08:24 PM
  #892
jumptheshark
Give the dog a bone
 
jumptheshark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: hf retirement home
Country: United Nations
Posts: 52,292
vCash: 500
not shocked there was no progress— neither side is serious about the mediators PR move by both sides to make it look like they are trying. IF they took their problems to an arbitrator and agreed to go by the results—that would be something

__________________
trying to fend off exwife number 2
45000/010113
GO SHARKS GO
jumptheshark is offline  
Old
11-29-2012, 08:32 PM
  #893
stratedge
Rebuild, year 4...
 
stratedge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,228
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by molsonmuscle360 View Post
They were saying on Hockeycentral I think on Friday that there was a rumor going around with the owners (McClean was the one talking) that Fehr is planning to just string the owners along and then try to nuke the salary cap. If that happens we are going to see a drastically different league when hockey eventually comes back, but at that point I think it will be 2014 that we see hockey. But with a lot fewer teams.
That doesn't make any sense, what would be the point of going after the salary cap? Fehr has no motivation based on the agreed to 50/50 split of hockey revenue that they'll get to one way or the other regardless of how quickly.

The cap just creates a more competitive environment, which is good for the league and therefore both the owners and the players.

The owners are just putting that out there as yet another attempt by both parties to manipulate fans and/or the players in an effort to put pressure on Fehr to "prove something". It won't work.

stratedge is offline  
Old
11-29-2012, 08:36 PM
  #894
oilinblood
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,196
vCash: 500
Oilers fans become mediators in lock-out; ideas to a settlement

So everyone is saying, there is a huge gap remaining to bridge. Contract rights are on the table, who pays for the losses of what will be an NHL recession from lost revenues and fans that chose to give up, what portion of the pie do the players get?

I have a few solution ideas but these focus on not just the good of owners or business or players...but what is good for the game. As fans we know the issues that make the sport look rediculous when it comes to contracts and why it is losing money. Although the NHLPA wont embrace the idea; hiding contracts in the A and other leagues, reporting to media trade requests, signing a NTC but then demanding a trade to a specific team, back-diving cap cheating contracts, contracts based all on potential; are all issues that make us fans cringe.

1. On contract matters. The NHL wants a 5 year max and a variance of 5% from year to year. They also want the cap value to be the actual annual value not the average.
Solution - Give the players a freedom. Give the players an out clause they can activate in year 3 and every year following that in a term contract. This would obviously only affect contracts 4 yers and over since a 3 year contract will be ending anyways. The option to file for exercising the right would be expired on the seasons all-star game and would be openly reported then. Once the papers would be filed the players would be evaporating their contract on the next july1st and enter their respective free agency category. They would also be waiving any NTC's or NMC's --to be talked about in my next point.

In response to giving this power there are conditions that would have to be met. Obviously you cant allow players an exit clause if there are back-diving contracts. You also cant have any variation in a cap system from the salary earned to the cap value if you give this power away. So the players , for this to ever work, have to concede:

Cap value = Income earned from July1st to June 30th of that season.
Variance rule would not be needed

OR

Cap is based on the Average but with no variance more than 5%

PLUS

Longterm contracts are mostly based on "promise/projection/potential". These three P's are why we are here and Rick Dipietro owns a small island.
If you think of this logically; players, if earning less than market, will always elect to evaporate their contracts where as Horcoffs or Gomezes will always elect to keep the contract. There for by giving this power to the players Bettman gives an excllamation point to GMs that you shouldnt do contracts over 4 years and if you want to project...do so in vegas with your own personal funds and not with your NHL business that suffers through your idiocy.
As Bettman has said, he likes players earning millions the problem is the few players that dont earn what they make.


Last edited by oilinblood: 11-29-2012 at 08:56 PM.
oilinblood is offline  
Old
11-29-2012, 08:40 PM
  #895
oilinblood
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,196
vCash: 500
2. Waivers.
NO player on a 1 way contract, at or above league average salary, can be waived to a lower league unless that player accepts to sign with the lower league and resign his NHL contract.

advantage to players- they continue to play or earn full NHL salary. In a case like Redden if the Rangers arent willing to play him than they need to deal him to someone who will play him.
advantage to league - again more reason not to sign contracts long term and certainly not based on projection.
advantage to fans - less BS.

oilinblood is offline  
Old
11-29-2012, 09:19 PM
  #896
Silver
Registered User
 
Silver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: California
Posts: 5,063
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilinblood View Post
could be glorious.

This should get interesting
Glorious? You think so?

Interesting, I agree with. It'll be interesting to see if any of the kids sign together or if they split up, that's for sure.

Silver is offline  
Old
11-29-2012, 09:31 PM
  #897
oilinblood
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,196
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver View Post
Glorious? You think so?

Interesting, I agree with. It'll be interesting to see if any of the kids sign together or if they split up, that's for sure.
If the league centralized i am pretty sure Gary would sign players for their original teams. If the players didnt want to go...well Gary might say "enjoy siberia. dont have heart troubles. i hope you wont need a nearby paramedic at a game. enjoy the flights". Thats how i would do it.

Eberle is applying for a job? We have a position available in our Edmonton branch. Nothing else applies to you though. Thanks for the interest.

oilinblood is offline  
Old
11-29-2012, 09:32 PM
  #898
subnet
HFBoards Sponsor
 
subnet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: PacNW
Country: Canada
Posts: 741
vCash: 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver View Post
Glorious? You think so?

Interesting, I agree with. It'll be interesting to see if any of the kids sign together or if they split up, that's for sure.
That's the thing that might suck the most. We're FINALLY at a point where we have high-end young talent. FINALLY at a point where we might start winning some games. And if the team gets split

Hopefully the Big 4 + Yak will surprise us and decide to all sign with us because of their camaraderie and loyalty to each other (ok Yak might not be there). If not, the past 6 years (I can't remember it's been so long) have been a complete waste.

subnet is offline  
Old
11-29-2012, 09:43 PM
  #899
oilinblood
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,196
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by subnet View Post
That's the thing that might suck the most. We're FINALLY at a point where we have high-end young talent. FINALLY at a point where we might start winning some games. And if the team gets split

Hopefully the Big 4 + Yak will surprise us and decide to all sign with us because of their camaraderie and loyalty to each other (ok Yak might not be there). If not, the past 6 years (I can't remember it's been so long) have been a complete waste.
as i said, if we centralized Gary would be signing players for the "branches"/"franchises". I am pretty sure he would make give or take offers--like most employers. "Well Mr Hall, in Edmonton we have a position within that franchise that might fit you. Thank you for applying and here is our offer"

Im not saying it isnt risking a few players but the intention would be there and it doesnt violate anything because in a few recent court battles it has been the courts ruling that the NHL is the business and the teams are merely departments of its entertainment ventures. It will serve them well in the future if it needs to...as will the players playing in other countries proving the market is not controlled by the NHL. Unlike NBA and NFL players who couldnt find work because of the lack of interest in the global market (watching NBA clips and empty stadiums makes me wonder if the market for their product in NA is an illusion, a flea circus) NHL players have many competitors to choose from to make a living and proven it, overseas and in NA.


Last edited by oilinblood: 11-29-2012 at 09:50 PM.
oilinblood is offline  
Old
11-29-2012, 09:46 PM
  #900
Silver
Registered User
 
Silver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: California
Posts: 5,063
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilinblood View Post
If the league centralized i am pretty sure Gary would sign players for their original teams. If the players didnt want to go...well Gary might say "enjoy siberia. dont have heart troubles. i hope you wont need a nearby paramedic at a game. enjoy the flights". Thats how i would do it.

Eberle is applying for a job? We have a position available in our Edmonton branch. Nothing else applies to you though. Thanks for the interest.
You really think that is what will happen?

Silver is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:47 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.