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Old
11-29-2012, 05:36 PM
  #451
Vankiller Whale
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Gardiner/JVR + 1st for Schneider
Kadri, Kulimen, 1st for Luongo
Lupul, Blacker, 1st for Luongo

Any of those deals I could live with(the first being conditional doesn't bother me personally)

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11-29-2012, 05:49 PM
  #452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Gardiner/JVR + 1st for Schneider
Kadri, Kulimen, 1st for Luongo
Lupul, Blacker, 1st for Luongo

Any of those deals I could live with(the first being conditional doesn't bother me personally)
I'd do the second one.

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11-29-2012, 05:51 PM
  #453
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Gardiner/JVR + 1st for Schneider
Kadri, Kulimen, 1st for Luongo
Lupul, Blacker, 1st for Luongo

Any of those deals I could live with(the first being conditional doesn't bother me personally)
Wouldn't do the Schneider part. You're undervaluing him, especially for JVR (injury prone and relatively unproven).

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11-29-2012, 05:54 PM
  #454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Gardiner/JVR + 1st for Schneider
Kadri, Kulimen, 1st for Luongo
Lupul, Blacker, 1st for Luongo

Any of those deals I could live with(the first being conditional doesn't bother me personally)
I'm honestly not thrilled about the second, and I know no Leafs fan will go for the first (something about being untouchable), and for Schneider, and all the reasons listed for Luongo not being worth the amount to trade, I'd want more for him.. The third seems to most doable trade from either side I think.

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11-29-2012, 05:58 PM
  #455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Gardiner/JVR + 1st for Schneider
Kadri, Kulimen, 1st for Luongo
Lupul, Blacker, 1st for Luongo

Any of those deals I could live with(the first being conditional doesn't bother me personally)
Why would we need Kulemin? What does he bring to out 2nd/3rd lines that we don't already have? We need an upgrade!

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11-29-2012, 06:08 PM
  #456
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I'm honestly not thrilled about the second, and I know no Leafs fan will go for the first (something about being untouchable), and for Schneider, and all the reasons listed for Luongo not being worth the amount to trade, I'd want more for him.. The third seems to most doable trade from either side I think.
Actually, in the Schneider thread I made a few weeks back. Leaf fans were surprisingly more receptive to Gardiner+1st. Not all but a good amount. The second one I could live with but am of the same opinion; not thrilled, even if I do believe Kulemin rebounds.

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11-29-2012, 06:09 PM
  #457
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Lupul, Blacker, 1st for Luongo

Seems good to me.

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11-29-2012, 06:11 PM
  #458
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Originally Posted by Co Ho View Post
Wouldn't do the Schneider part. You're undervaluing him, especially for JVR (injury prone and relatively unproven).
Gardiner has a terrific year last season and young defensemen covet a much higher value than young goaltenders. You may not want to move Schneider but that is hardly undervaluing him. Personally, I see it this way. We flip Gardiner or Edler to address our needs. We will have plenty more options this way.

I'd take Lupul, Blacker and a 1st from those three though.

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11-29-2012, 06:14 PM
  #459
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Actually, in the Schneider thread I made a few weeks back. Leaf fans were surprisingly more receptive to Gardiner+1st. Not all but a good amount. The second one I could live with but am of the same opinion; not thrilled, even if I do believe Kulemin rebounds.
Even if they are receptive, I think my other point stands: We can likely get as good, or better, from another team if it is Schneider we are moving.

Quote:
Originally Posted by huntison View Post
Lupul, Blacker, 1st for Luongo

Seems good to me.
Ditto, I think that's the most even of the three. Not thrilling or exciting, but I'd be alright with that return.

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11-29-2012, 06:19 PM
  #460
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Their current goalies? A different trade? Trying to pretend the Leafs have no choice other than Luo is laughably homerific.
Great, is there another goalie available through trade though? One of Luongo's calibre?

I never said Luongo was their only option. He is however their best one.

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11-29-2012, 07:28 PM
  #461
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Gardiner has a terrific year last season and young defensemen covet a much higher value than young goaltenders. You may not want to move Schneider but that is hardly undervaluing him. Personally, I see it this way. We flip Gardiner or Edler to address our needs. We will have plenty more options this way.

I'd take Lupul, Blacker and a 1st from those three though.

Luongo said it was time to move on, Schneider just signed a new multi-year contract; the writing is on the wall, Luongo is on his way out. The fact that we'd sign and trade Schneider while Luongo has indicated that he wants out makes absolutely no sense.

Regardless of my perception of Schneider, it's highly doubtful he's moved so why even bother entertaining the idea?

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11-29-2012, 08:00 PM
  #462
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Why would we need Kulemin? What does he bring to out 2nd/3rd lines that we don't already have? We need an upgrade!
Size.

Kulemin would be the ideal 3rd line LW if Schroeder makes the team. His size, speed, defensive play and ability to get to the net is exactly what a rookie like Schroeder needs on his wing.

Kulemin and Kassian would be perfect bookends for Schroeder. I would be surprised if Luongo goes to Toronto and Kulemin isn't coming back...

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11-29-2012, 08:09 PM
  #463
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Originally Posted by Back in 94 View Post
Great, is there another goalie available through trade though? One of Luongo's calibre?

I never said Luongo was their only option. He is however their best one.
It's rare for the public to know what is available for trade; unless a player completely tells the media that they would be open to being moved. That doesn't happen often; as most GMs don't like players that completely shows all their cards.

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11-29-2012, 08:47 PM
  #464
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
You may not, but Burke doesn't have 6.7m kicking around to give Lu.
He could easily make room for that kind of money, thats' silly. Toronto is set up pretty nicely when it comes to the cap and the contracts we have expiring shortly.

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11-29-2012, 08:57 PM
  #465
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I don't get you. You are either choosing to ignore facts or you are simply unaware of them. Assuming the CBA grandfathers Luongo's contract it really isn't bad at all, in fact it's quite good for a team like Toronto who has money to spend as the cap hit is lower than the salary. Let's break it down...

- Luongo has 10 years @ 5.33mil cap hit with a NTC. If he hit UFA status last offseason, he'd likely get more than that. Bryzgalov, a far worse goalie, just recently got a 9 year deal @ 5.67mil with a NMC.

- After the final game of the 17/18 season (when Luongo is 37) his NTC goes away until September 1. This gives any team that owns his rights a few months to trade him if they see fit. There will be takers as Luongo only has 1 year left at full salary, then his salary starts to dip far below his cap hit. It's unlikely Luongo's play will regress much if at all by that age, many goalies play their best hockey in their mid to late 30s.

- Luongo has a NTC, not a NMC. If Luongo wants to play until age 42 and you don't want him around, you waive him. There will be a number of cap floor teams that would be interested in grabbing a journeyman starting goalie with a 5.33mil cap hit at a salary of about 1.5mil. That's basically 3.85mil in the owners pocket.

- In the new CBA, they seem hell bent on hanging any penalties associated with long term contracts right on the necks of the team that originally signed them. As such, you get to take advantage of a longterm contract with zero reprecussion.
Can you name the number of players or teams(examples) where this has been the case? Please, I'd love to hear them.

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11-29-2012, 09:03 PM
  #466
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Can you name the number of players or teams(examples) where this has been the case? Please, I'd love to hear them.
Florida had to overpay guys like Fleischmann and Upshall on the open market just to reach the cap floor. It's only logical that a cap floor team be interested in a high cap hit/ low cash expenditure player.

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11-29-2012, 09:04 PM
  #467
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What you believe would be offered by whom? Who is this imaginary GM?


Again, how can his contract be a cap-circumvention deal and an albatross at the same time? Please explain that - this should be fun.


I think Canuck fans on here should be well aware of the contradiction in DG93's posts when dealing with him. There's no understanding of what cap-circumvention actually means. Therefore, his proposals will inherently be flawed.
What part of Burke wants nothing to do with cap circumvention do you not understand.

As for my offers, we're all just armchair GM's here. Calm down.

We all know how Burke is as a GM. He always trys to get the deals his way. I see this being no different. Luongo isn't the only option here for us. Like I've stated many times before, I would much rather take my chances with Reimer/Scrivens (as both have looked brilliant at times) than overpay for a guy an older guy who has a terrible terrible contract. If you guys see his contract as great, fine. You keep him. I'll just move onto the next player that may or may not be available.

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11-29-2012, 09:05 PM
  #468
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
What part of Burke wants nothing to do with cap circumvention do you not understand.
Oh, so Burke isn't interested at all then. That's news to me.

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11-29-2012, 09:11 PM
  #469
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Originally Posted by Co Ho View Post
Luongo said it was time to move on, Schneider just signed a new multi-year contract; the writing is on the wall, Luongo is on his way out. The fact that we'd sign and trade Schneider while Luongo has indicated that he wants out makes absolutely no sense.

Regardless of my perception of Schneider, it's highly doubtful he's moved so why even bother entertaining the idea?
You do realize you just backed me up on the majority of my arguements here.

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11-29-2012, 09:12 PM
  #470
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Oh, so Burke isn't interested at all then. That's news to me.
Umm, if you paid attention to Burke at all you'd know he's stated that on numerous occasions. NUMEROUS. He hates it (cap circumvention)

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11-29-2012, 09:14 PM
  #471
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Florida had to overpay guys like Fleischmann and Upshall on the open market just to reach the cap floor. It's only logical that a cap floor team be interested in a high cap hit/ low cash expenditure player.
That is not at all what was being said. What was said, what players or teams have been involved in deals soley based on trying to reach the cap floor. UFA's have nothing to do with this arguement.

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11-29-2012, 09:17 PM
  #472
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If we traded for Lu and later on must be put on waiverss the leafs would eat half his cap hit... not an attractive idea.

also even if there are outs to trade luongo they last over the off season. no one will offer value for a goalie the leafs would need to trade in such a short window...in fact it would cost them assets.

NOT TO MENTION, the most recent discussion of a new CBA was for a 5yr deal. Luongo has a 10 yr contract. How the heck would that play into it??? Would the Leafs be even more screwed 5yrs from now if they dealt for him?

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11-29-2012, 09:19 PM
  #473
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Looking at the history of trades, a 1st will definitely be involved. Off the top of my head these guys returned at least a 1st round pick in the past year or 2.

Rick Nash
Jordan Staal
Paul Gaustad
Jeff Carter x2
Kyle Quincey
Semyon Varlamov
Troy Brouwer
Brent Burns

Luongo is definitely on par with these guys and worth more than some (Gaustad/Quincey/Varlamov/Brouwer)

not to mention Ben Bishop (UFA in a couple months) returned a 2nd round pick!

Are you seriously telling me the difference between a soon to be UFA Ben Bishop and Roberto Luongo even with his contract is Tyler freaking Bozak?!? (looking at u ACC)

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11-29-2012, 09:21 PM
  #474
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
What part of Burke wants nothing to do with cap circumvention do you not understand.

As for my offers, we're all just armchair GM's here. Calm down.

We all know how Burke is as a GM. He always trys to get the deals his way. I see this being no different. Luongo isn't the only option here for us. Like I've stated many times before, I would much rather take my chances with Reimer/Scrivens (as both have looked brilliant at times) than overpay for a guy an older guy who has a terrible terrible contract. If you guys see his contract as great, fine. You keep him. I'll just move onto the next player that may or may not be available.
if Burke wants nothing to do with cap circumvented deals then why even bother discussing a deal for Luongo?

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11-29-2012, 09:23 PM
  #475
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You do realize you just backed me up on the majority of my arguements here.
Not really. Reasons being:

1) Gillis does not need to trade Luongo to Toronto. To assume they are the only team with interest would be ridiculous. Burke really needs a goaltender and the market is pretty bare right now. While the circumstances do make Luongo cheaper than he'd usually be, that does not mean that Burke holds any bargaining power.
2) Luongo is a very respectful and patient professional. He can wait for a deal to get done and knows it's in his best interest if he waits to see if any new teams arise in the deals throughout the season.

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