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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part VII: The Last Waltz "Cut the sheet & drop the puck!"

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Old
11-29-2012, 05:27 PM
  #901
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Still think it's too early for people to write the season off. Everyone's mad and rightfully so but I don't think either side will blink until they absolutely have to and I do think one of them will. Unfortunately that point may not come until January when the season is truly on the line.

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11-29-2012, 05:30 PM
  #902
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Originally Posted by ltrangerfan View Post
At this point:

A meeting between the players and owners without Bettman, Fehr &

the staff can't hurt.

Only positive news: We're still in Nov.
Sounds like an attempt to get the players into a negotiating position without having their counsel with them. Don't see how it's a good proposal in any way.

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11-29-2012, 06:02 PM
  #903
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As each day passes the NHL makes the case ever more clearly that it no longer deserves to exist.

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11-29-2012, 06:03 PM
  #904
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$18-20 million lost in revenue PER day...

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11-29-2012, 06:09 PM
  #905
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$18-20 million lost in revenue PER day...
Exactly.

How does an entity that is sustainable make the decision that results in that loss every single day.

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11-29-2012, 06:21 PM
  #906
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
Exactly.

How does an entity that is sustainable make the decision that results in that loss every single day.
An entity of 30 teams, with 3 producing almost 90% of profits, is sustainable???

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11-29-2012, 06:22 PM
  #907
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Originally Posted by NYRFAN218 View Post
Still think it's too early for people to write the season off. Everyone's mad and rightfully so but I don't think either side will blink until they absolutely have to and I do think one of them will. Unfortunately that point may not come until January when the season is truly on the line.
I keep thinking it's gonna be like 95. Season starts in mid-late January with the regular season ending around the 1st of May. That will give us 48-50 games. I keep thinking they can't be dumb enough to let this go a whole year again. Though I initially didn't think they'd let a lockout happen again at all. Even in early September I thought they would have a last minute deal by the 15th.

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11-29-2012, 06:28 PM
  #908
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I keep thinking it's gonna be like 95. Season starts in mid-late January with the regular season ending around the 1st of May. That will give us 48-50 games. I keep thinking they can't be dumb enough to let this go a whole year again. Though I initially didn't think they'd let a lockout happen again at all. Even in early September I thought they would have a last minute deal by the 15th.
Never thought that myself. I was always in the mid December will be when they reach a deal and January 1st was puck drop. I think it'll be a little later than that now but I still think there will be a season. They just can't afford a cancelled season.

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11-29-2012, 06:31 PM
  #909
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Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
I keep thinking it's gonna be like 95. Season starts in mid-late January with the regular season ending around the 1st of May. That will give us 48-50 games. I keep thinking they can't be dumb enough to let this go a whole year again. Though I initially didn't think they'd let a lockout happen again at all. Even in early September I thought they would have a last minute deal by the 15th.
You seem like an optimist. I've been trying to keep positive during this lockout, but there hasn't been any sustained good news for a long period of time.

This lockout's turning me into a pessimist.

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11-29-2012, 06:35 PM
  #910
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Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
“@KatieStrangESPN: #CBA According to multiple sources Bettman proposed to D. Fehr a meeting between owners and players only, w/ no league or PA staff present.”

****ing weasel...
This is a good thing, all things considered.

Enough with the misguided hate

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11-29-2012, 06:38 PM
  #911
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Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
You seem like an optimist. I've been trying to keep positive during this lockout, but there hasn't been any sustained good news for a long period of time.

This lockout's turning me into a pessimist.
At this point I've lost a lot of optimism though. This period of time without any good news like you said though, has really made me feel suckered. I guess I gave them too much credit to think they would lock out again, and am still trying to give the benefit of the doubt we won't lose a whole season. This circle of insanity has gotta stop soon, but I wouldn't put anything past them now.

I've been saying since the mid October rejection I think there will be a season, but I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't. Still would like to say that, but it's hard.

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11-29-2012, 06:44 PM
  #912
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At this point I've lost a lot of optimism though. This period of time without any good news like you said though, has really made me feel suckered. I guess I gave them too much credit to think they would lock out again, and am still trying to give the benefit of the doubt we won't lose a whole season. This circle of insanity has gotta stop soon, but I wouldn't put anything past them now.

I've been saying since the mid October rejection I think there will be a season, but I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't. Still would like to say that, but it's hard.
Yep. Guess I was just hoping that they wouldn't be such a group of idiots who refuse to negotiate. Have they even had a back and forth negotiation? They haven't even decided one tiny aspect of the new CBA.

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11-29-2012, 06:47 PM
  #913
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Originally Posted by NYRFAN218 View Post
Never thought that myself. I was always in the mid December will be when they reach a deal and January 1st was puck drop. I think it'll be a little later than that now but I still think there will be a season. They just can't afford a cancelled season.
I was confident about a Jan 1 start at the latest. Even though there is still time I lost faith.

The mediation only proved that the sides are far apart with neither side yielding. I say to myself that the two sides have staked out their position and now appear entrenched. What will changed over the next week or two? Hopefully some pressure as both sides face another lost season? Hopefully.

The PA looks like they will play this out. What is their next move? Disband the union? Possibly? They sent their message to the owners that they are prepared to sit.

The owners... Now have decision to make. Put forth an improved final offer? Then cancel the season. wait a bit longer...but is much left to do? The owners are looking at the union possibly disbanding.
Do they care? Perhaps we have reached the end of the line with a 30 team league. Franchise owners tried to build a southern strategy without success. Maybe a few franchises could look to move but I wonder if a contraction might be best? It would cost some owners their franchise and cost some players jobs but maybe it's for the best? Should the owners go on experimenting with attempts to expand the revenues with little to no net return?

Maybe some are right when they say the league needs to be blown up? Owners will lose some money and player jobs (as well as staff) will be lost? Maybe both sides are right in holding out? Time will tell.

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11-29-2012, 06:49 PM
  #914
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
An entity of 30 teams, with 3 producing almost 90% of profits, is sustainable???
Sorry. I'm not making myself clear. The NHL is not sustainable. It's broken. What we see every day proves that, imo. If it could make a go of it, the league would not choose to endure these losses. It's a very poorly run business with chronic mistrust and miss management at every level. It deserves to go away.

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11-29-2012, 07:02 PM
  #915
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im a season ticket holder, as die hard as they come, and i cant tell you how nice it is to have that extra money in my pocket every month. this lockout is making me think long and hard about continuing to give this league my money.

mind you, ive missed about 15 home games since 06-07 when i started having season tickets, including when i went to school in fairfield.

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Old
11-29-2012, 07:30 PM
  #916
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Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
$18-20 million lost in revenue PER day...
Minor point but someone at tsn called bs on that comment by bettman saying that at $20 mil/day for the owners share it would be like 5.5 bil for year when it's really 3.4

If my math is right I think bettman misspoke and meant 18-20 mil per game lost

Not that it matters

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11-29-2012, 07:32 PM
  #917
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
This is a good thing, all things considered.

Enough with the misguided hate
It's a good thing if he lets owners other than his butt-buddies in the meeting. Let players talk to Dolan and I'm interested. Talk to the same 3-4 guys in every meeting anyway and I don't see much difference other than bettman/fehr can say they aren't the problem

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11-29-2012, 08:21 PM
  #918
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Originally Posted by CM PUNK View Post
It's a good thing if he lets owners other than his butt-buddies in the meeting. Let players talk to Dolan and I'm interested. Talk to the same 3-4 guys in every meeting anyway and I don't see much difference other than bettman/fehr can say they aren't the problem
It's a ****** ploy to get the players into a position where they can be brow beaten about a deal and not have their legal counsel there. Of course it would be the hard liners like Jacobs who would be there (basically the same as having Bettman there), and they would pressure the players with stuff like "it's in your best interest, Fehr and the NHLPA are misleading you" etc etc

Anyone thinking this is a good idea isn't thinking very clearly.

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11-29-2012, 08:29 PM
  #919
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Aaron Ward ‏@aaronward_nhl
NHLPA will be conducting a conference call tomorrow with Executive Board and Negotiating Committee. #TSN

Louis Jean ‏@LouisJean_TVA
@NHLPA Exec. Dir, Don Fehr sent e-mail to players. Asked them to refrain from commenting negs & league offer for player/owners only meeting.

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Old
11-29-2012, 08:34 PM
  #920
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It's a ****** ploy to get the players into a position where they can be brow beaten about a deal and not have their legal counsel there. Of course it would be the hard liners like Jacobs who would be there (basically the same as having Bettman there), and they would pressure the players with stuff like "it's in your best interest, Fehr and the NHLPA are misleading you" etc etc

Anyone thinking this is a good idea isn't thinking very clearly.
Question, after Bettman and Jacobs, who would your next villain be? And the next one after that??

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Old
11-29-2012, 08:35 PM
  #921
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Dejan Kovacevic ‏@Dejan_Kovacevic

Here’s Gary Bettman’s complete list of owners he’ll allow to participate in proposed owner-player meeting: 1. Jeremy Jacobs.


Adam Proteau ‏@Proteautype

I hope Don Fehr counters Gary Bettman's proposal by proposing a 7-game hockey series between the lawyers on both sides.

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Old
11-29-2012, 09:38 PM
  #922
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Blow it up. Who cares anymore? Let's revert to the original six and form a NA division in the KHL.

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Old
11-29-2012, 09:42 PM
  #923
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
An entity of 30 teams, with 3 producing almost 90% of profits, is sustainable???
No it's not BUT neither side seems to have any interest in actually fixing the problem. That's the most frustrating part of all, after all this knowing that it is a 1000% guarantee that we will be going thru the same thing in 6 years with another lockout because sliding around % doesn't address the real issue.

It's pretty much simple math if a small number of teams account for the majority of the $$, and you force all teams to spend based on league revenues then those top teams will make monster profits and the bottom teams will struggle to make ends meet.

I'm not saying I have the answer or going to suggest that it's as simple as more revenue sharing. But until you either fix that imbalance and/or make teams spend based on their own revenue and not the leagues then you will continue to have these problems whether the players are getting 57%, 50% or 45% because its only a matter of time before the top teams drive up the league revenue to the point that the bottom teams can't afford that % either.

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Old
11-30-2012, 01:39 AM
  #924
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I think at this point, we should be worried about losing part/all of 2013/2014.

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Old
11-30-2012, 02:19 AM
  #925
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Really surprised more people are not questioning the accuracy in the Forbes article.

Wake up Sheeple!

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