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Old
11-29-2012, 10:34 AM
  #226
Indy on the Road
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
How does Lehner benefit from spending more time in the AHL?
Because the NHL isn't coming back anytime soon, dawg.

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Old
11-29-2012, 10:46 AM
  #227
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Originally Posted by SensPromo View Post
Haha, that may be, but when you post a 12 game sample, then say he's ready, that's what it infers
I didn't think that I needed to mention that he carried the team to a championship already, please accept my sincerest apologies for not doing so.

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11-29-2012, 11:09 AM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Qward View Post
we know he can only move diagonally. Sorry had to.


We do he had the best numbers in the AHL last year, and the only reason he was not in the NHL was because he was behind Elliot and Halak.

Elliot got the nod to back up Halak because he had NHL experience and Bishop did not. St. Louis was going to lose him as a FA and Ottawa swooped in and picked him up for a fair price.
Bishop was 7th last year in GAA and 2nd to Cedrick Desjardins in SA% in the AHL.

Bishop was going to be an RFA at the end of 2012, there was little risk of St. Louis losing him.

St Louis passed on Bishop for Elliott, a goaltender that in 2010/11 had a > 3.00 GAA and a SA% <.900, on two different teams.

Makes me wonder what St Louis thought of Ben Bishop's future as an NHL goalie.


Last edited by Holdurbreathe: 11-29-2012 at 11:19 AM.
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Old
11-29-2012, 11:25 AM
  #229
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Originally Posted by guyzeur View Post
How would he benefit by playing 20 games in the NHL instead of the 60 in the AHL?

Answer: he needs to play a lot more than just 20 games to improve his game.
Doesn't this rationale apply to Bishop as well?

Unless of course you are suggesting Bishop will only ever be an NHL backup.

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Old
11-29-2012, 11:44 AM
  #230
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Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
This is true. However I want to see a bit bigger sample size. I've been saying that if he continues playing on at this pace towards February, he has nothing left to benefit from the AHL and just the experience of 20 games in the NHL would do him wonders for his development. Heck, he might even steal the number 1 spot.
IMO there was never any doubt Lehner had the talent to play in the NHL, the only question was when/if he would show the level of maturity required.

Maturity isn't something demonstrated by the number of games, it is measured by his approach to life and his profession. Last year he wasn't close to ready, even though he posted a .935 SA% and 2GAA.

Lehner just wasn't focused or dedicated enough, regardless of his skill, to stay in Ottawa.

This year things have changed. Everything Richardson has offered about him is extremely positive. From his physical conditioning, to his approach to practice, game preparation, attitude, and focus, Luke has been impressed.

The most telling comment, Luke said Lehner is a leader in the room.

This suggests Robin has matured and while playing the rest of the season in the AHL won't hurt his development, the Sens would be a better team with him than without him.


Last edited by Holdurbreathe: 11-29-2012 at 11:59 AM.
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Old
11-29-2012, 12:10 PM
  #231
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Patience, it is a virtue.

You want a goalie who is going to be playing for you for 15+ years, not one who is going to be gone in 2 or 3. Anderson was signed for a couple years to provide Lehner with this cushion to develop. It isn't really hard to understand. The gratification will come, chill bro.

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Old
11-29-2012, 02:50 PM
  #232
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He doesn't have to get the starter job. He could easily start 25 games as the backup (if it were a full season), and what if Andy decides to try cooking again?

Whenever they get the season started, they are going to jam as many games as possible into the shortest amount of time possible. We're going to need someone to help carry the load.

Lehner > Bishop.

Lehner looks ready for the NHL. He has nothing more to learn, or to prove at the AHL level.

It's not rushing the guy if he's ready. Anderson is still the #1. I think the odd start, and practising regularly with the NHL team and coaches will benefit Lehner more than riding the bus around upstate New York.

It's time for him to graduate.

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Old
11-29-2012, 03:16 PM
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
He doesn't have to get the starter job. He could easily start 25 games as the backup (if it were a full season), and what if Andy decides to try cooking again?

Whenever they get the season started, they are going to jam as many games as possible into the shortest amount of time possible. We're going to need someone to help carry the load.

Lehner > Bishop.

Lehner looks ready for the NHL. He has nothing more to learn, or to prove at the AHL level.

It's not rushing the guy if he's ready. Anderson is still the #1. I think the odd start, and practising regularly with the NHL team and coaches will benefit Lehner more than riding the bus around upstate New York.

It's time for him to graduate.
Lehner still needs to prove he can dominate the AHL for a full season.

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11-29-2012, 03:54 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post

Bishop was going to be an RFA at the end of 2012, there was little risk of St. Louis losing him.
Incorrect. Bishop was set to become an UFA due to amount of games played.

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11-29-2012, 04:06 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
Incorrect. Bishop was set to become an UFA due to amount of games played.
I think he means if they felt he was ready to be backup at the start of the season. Then he likely would have hit the necessary games played target.

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Old
11-29-2012, 04:13 PM
  #236
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I think a lot more of it has to do with his maturity, approach and conditioning this season.

He's ready, I agree.

Have him back-up Anderson. Learn what it is to be an NHL goalie.

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11-29-2012, 05:12 PM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
Bishop was 7th last year in GAA and 2nd to Cedrick Desjardins in SA% in the AHL.

Bishop was going to be an RFA at the end of 2012, there was little risk of St. Louis losing him.

St Louis passed on Bishop for Elliott, a goaltender that in 2010/11 had a > 3.00 GAA and a SA% <.900, on two different teams.

Makes me wonder what St Louis thought of Ben Bishop's future as an NHL goalie.
total BS Elliot came into training camp on a 2 way deal won the back up position and dominated the league as one of the best goalies last year in the entire NHL. craig anderson didn't play as well as elliot did... and you expect Bishop to beat him out?

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11-29-2012, 05:29 PM
  #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
Bishop was 7th last year in GAA and 2nd to Cedrick Desjardins in SA% in the AHL.

Bishop was going to be an RFA at the end of 2012, there was little risk of St. Louis losing him.

St Louis passed on Bishop for Elliott, a goaltender that in 2010/11 had a > 3.00 GAA and a SA% <.900, on two different teams.

Makes me wonder what St Louis thought of Ben Bishop's future as an NHL goalie.
1: At the time of the trade, Bishop was second in the league for

GAA
Danis 1.98
Bishop 2.23
Scrivens 2.28
Smith 2.35
Tokarski 2.39
Desjardins 2.56
LeNeveu 2.92

He led the league in shut outs with 6.

Quote:
Bishop's 24 wins are also tied for the AHL lead. Many consider him to be the best goalie in the AHL.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=619075

2:
Quote:
2.Group 6 free agents (must be elected by the player): Players who have reached age 25, who have 3 accrued years of professional experience (that is, beyond junior or collegiate hockey), and whose contracts have expired, but have played less than:
1.80 NHL games played for forwards and defensemen.
2.28 NHL games played for goaltenders.
Bishop who was 25 had played 13 NHL games at that time. St. Louis would had to have played him 15 more games to keep him an RFA.

3:
Quote:
Despite very similar exhibition statistics, however, the Blues cited experience as the biggest factor in choosing Elliott, a summer free agent addition on a two-way contract and coming off a miserable season in Ottawa and Colorado.
http://ingoalmag.com/news/experience...-blues-backup/

4: They knew they were going to lose him at the end of the season. So they moved him for the best they could get. A 2nd from Ottawa.


Next time you want to call me out, have the evidence to back it up.

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Old
11-29-2012, 05:39 PM
  #239
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I have no problem either way, he's earning the back up gig right now though IMO and I don't think the Sens are gonna wait long to give the golden child a legitimate chance to overtake the starters spot.

Best case scenario in management's eyes IMO is Lehner proves to be special in that he proves to be capable of taking over at 21. And I'm not sure they'll stop him if he does.

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11-29-2012, 05:56 PM
  #240
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Lehner still needs to prove he can dominate the AHL for a full season.
That is not a requirement.

If it was, then Karlsson would have played more than 12 games in Binghamton.

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Old
11-29-2012, 06:15 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
That is not a requirement.

If it was, then Karlsson would have played more than 12 games in Binghamton.
You're right. It isn't a requirement...but goaltender development is handled differently than skater development and rightfully so.

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11-29-2012, 06:56 PM
  #242
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Fair enough.

I obviously don't think that Lehner needs any more AHL time, but it looks like the owners are taking care of that anyway.

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11-29-2012, 07:00 PM
  #243
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As someone indicated, Lehner is ready for the NHL but so is Bishop. Bishop too has number 1 potential. He was arguably the best goalie in the A last year.

Imo we have a little bit of a pickle. Bishop was signed 1 years 1 way to be our back-up because he obviously deserved it and we all know he is more than capable for that role. With that said, Lehner is showing he can play that position and even better as well.

Lehner > Bishop but both of them are equal for the back-up role. Hence it leads us to keep Lehner in the AHL over Bishop so two things can happen:

1) It gives Bishop his promised role and it's not like he has completely lost it to lehner. This can allow Bishop to re-sign with us if need be for that Lehner-Bishop punch

2) It gives others a show case of Bishops talent so we can trade him for much more than the 2nd we received if we think Lehner is ready and better, possibly landing us a big player with Bishop being involved in the trade.

Lehner stays in the AHL and I highlight doubt that will ruin him. Heck, it allows him to mature even more and prove his worth consistently over the full year and come in next year to immediately challenge for the starting role.

With this being said, the ****ing lock-out is worst possible scenario because we have TWO AHL superstar goalies sharing the role and Bishop is not being used as the back-up role that could potentially show a lot of interest in others if we do trade him.

**** we always get screwed by the lock-out.

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Old
11-29-2012, 09:08 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
As someone indicated, Lehner is ready for the NHL but so is Bishop. Bishop too has number 1 potential. He was arguably the best goalie in the A last year.

Imo we have a little bit of a pickle. Bishop was signed 1 years 1 way to be our back-up because he obviously deserved it and we all know he is more than capable for that role. With that said, Lehner is showing he can play that position and even better as well.

Lehner > Bishop but both of them are equal for the back-up role. Hence it leads us to keep Lehner in the AHL over Bishop so two things can happen:

1) It gives Bishop his promised role and it's not like he has completely lost it to lehner. This can allow Bishop to re-sign with us if need be for that Lehner-Bishop punch

2) It gives others a show case of Bishops talent so we can trade him for much more than the 2nd we received if we think Lehner is ready and better, possibly landing us a big player with Bishop being involved in the trade.

Lehner stays in the AHL and I highlight doubt that will ruin him. Heck, it allows him to mature even more and prove his worth consistently over the full year and come in next year to immediately challenge for the starting role.

With this being said, the ****ing lock-out is worst possible scenario because we have TWO AHL superstar goalies sharing the role and Bishop is not being used as the back-up role that could potentially show a lot of interest in others if we do trade him.

**** we always get screwed by the lock-out.
Spot on..not gonna beat a dead horse here but this was worth noting out of all opinions..

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Old
11-29-2012, 09:18 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by Qward View Post
Bishop who was 25 had played 13 NHL games at that time. St. Louis would had to have played him 15 more games to keep him an RFA.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Bishop still hasn't played 28 games. Hence if the season is lost he'll be a UFA at the start of next season?

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11-29-2012, 09:57 PM
  #246
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but Bishop still hasn't played 28 games. Hence if the season is lost he'll be a UFA at the start of next season?
Correct.

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11-29-2012, 11:31 PM
  #247
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Its nice seeing a Sens thread with arguments about how good our goaltending depth is.

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Old
11-30-2012, 08:46 AM
  #248
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Holmes, you are hilarious.

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Old
11-30-2012, 09:01 AM
  #249
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Originally Posted by Fenix Rises 2026 View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Bishop still hasn't played 28 games. Hence if the season is lost he'll be a UFA at the start of next season?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qward View Post
Correct.
I don't think that is a certainty. I think it will depend on how the new CBA determines it will be handled.

That said, after the last lock-out 1 season was burned off of contracts.

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Old
11-30-2012, 09:10 AM
  #250
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If the season is lost, Rules regarding the expired CBA and contracts stand.

If the season is lost, he will be an UFA.

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