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Owner-Player meeting only, no Bettman or Fehr (UPD: 12/4 in NYC)

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Old
11-29-2012, 07:55 PM
  #26
echlfreak
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
Then there's DF's spin on the truth. Go read some of his memo's to the PA. One of the ones that sticks to my mind was something along the lines of "the NHL offered to make whole, but they don't really make whole" - without explaining why exactly they didn't really make whole.

The other thing is you do not know how involved those players are, and whether they're simply puppets to DF or not. I don't know them, nor am I there, so I don't have a clue. But it all depends on the individual and how much of the kool-aid they've had. Then you have all the stars backing DF (you know, all those guys who stand to potentially lose big on their massive deals), which could be intimidating to some guys... well Crosby, Ovie, etc all support DF's plan... I should to. It really makes you wonder how united some of the players really are (3rd/4th liners, 4-6 dmen, older guys who only have a few years left, etc).


Malhotra, Westgarth, Parros, Montador, Campoli, Morrison, Darche, Biron, Auld, Dubinsky, Adams, Aucoin, Winnik, Crombeen...which one of these guys are star players who stand to lose their massive deals?

Make Whole is not going to be explained through a media leaked memo...that is the purpose of the private players only conference calls which explains all aspects of each bargaining session in detail. Players can ask all the questions that they want during the conference call.

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11-29-2012, 07:55 PM
  #27
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If Fehr agrees to this, it will be the end of the lockout.(MOD)


Last edited by Killion: 11-29-2012 at 07:59 PM. Reason: beyond neccessary to make your point. Nasty.
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Old
11-29-2012, 07:56 PM
  #28
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Fehr should go in to the meeting with a fake moustache.

No chance he goes for this.

If it was reframed and not called a bargaining session, maybe. Let all the owners get in a room and talk openly without being muzzled if they disagree with continuing the lockout. Get the players in there, but don't let them talk about anything, just ask a couple strategic questions to each and every owners to try to break up their allegiance.

Of course, it would go both ways, so there's no chance.

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11-29-2012, 08:09 PM
  #29
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Maybe the player's egos will bring them to agreeing to the meeting. No way Fehr agrees on his own though.

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11-29-2012, 08:16 PM
  #30
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at this point , they can try everything . Bottom line is that all the fans wants hockey back , so if this is what it takes to solve this BS , so be it .

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11-29-2012, 08:18 PM
  #31
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Fehr can't allow it.

How stupid would he look if they came to an agreement without him?

Never gonna happen. Nice try Gary.

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11-29-2012, 08:20 PM
  #32
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How about we just get the hardliners from both sides in a room together?

Then, we find a really strong padlock...

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11-29-2012, 08:26 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by kaneone View Post
This is one of the most ridiculous ideas I ever heard. I mean.. one great thing about a union is that you have a businessman negotiating for you. Has the PA responded to this yet? If so, if they didn't say no, then they are clueless.
Someone said before, this might be a pre-emptive strike by Bettman against the decertification/disclaimer of interest. Reason being, if they aren't willing to negotiate without Fehr in the room, how can they be taken seriously when they want to decertify and aren't having Fehr negotiate for them then?

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11-29-2012, 08:45 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by NJDevs26 View Post
Someone said before, this might be a pre-emptive strike by Bettman against the decertification/disclaimer of interest. Reason being, if they aren't willing to negotiate without Fehr in the room, how can they be taken seriously when they want to decertify and aren't having Fehr negotiate for them then?
Excellent point, never thought about that. I assume they would simply argue that if there is no union, collective bargaining is unnecessary and their unwillingness/inability shouldn't be considered.

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11-29-2012, 08:59 PM
  #35
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The players and owners should settle this on the ice, in a 7-game series.

Is Lemieux still an owner? How about Dryden for TML?

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11-29-2012, 09:06 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by echlfreak View Post
NHL proposes that the OWNERS only and the PLAYERS only meet and try to figure out a solution.

Thoughts?
Bettman actually suggested this? Excellent! Maybe Bettman really should be given much more appreciation rather than all the **** that gets thrown his way.

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11-29-2012, 09:25 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
Bettman actually suggested this? Excellent! Maybe Bettman really should be given much more appreciation rather than all the **** that gets thrown his way.
And you really can't see through this ruse? Billionaire businessmen sitting down and negotiating a CBA in respect to 3.3 billion of HRR with hockey players... Get real.

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11-29-2012, 09:29 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by IBleedUnionBlue View Post
And you really can't see through this ruse? Billionaire businessmen sitting down and negotiating a CBA in respect to 3.3 billion of HRR with hockey players... Get real.
Never said that any agreement should be immediately reached within such a meeting. But it's not a bad idea that the two actual sides get to hear each other out directly without the go-betweens.

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11-29-2012, 09:43 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
Then there's DF's spin on the truth. Go read some of his memo's to the PA. One of the ones that sticks to my mind was something along the lines of "the NHL offered to make whole, but they don't really make whole" - without explaining why exactly they didn't really make whole.

The other thing is you do not know how involved those players are, and whether they're simply puppets to DF or not. I don't know them, nor am I there, so I don't have a clue. But it all depends on the individual and how much of the kool-aid they've had. Then you have all the stars backing DF (you know, all those guys who stand to potentially lose big on their massive deals), which could be intimidating to some guys... well Crosby, Ovie, etc all support DF's plan... I should to. It really makes you wonder how united some of the players really are (3rd/4th liners, 4-6 dmen, older guys who only have a few years left, etc).
this is a bunch of crap.

DF spin? Players can and have been encouraged to attend each and every meeting.

How can one spin somnething that is 100% open to any player that wants to attend?

the DF hate here is getting absurd.

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11-29-2012, 09:45 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
Methinks Bettman believes the Fehr Bro's are the glue that keeps the NHLPA together and without them in the room, the owners can get the players to think on the League's terms.
This is my thought.

Also, who would moderate the discussion? Somebody neutral would have to be there or it could potentially descend into chaos.

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11-29-2012, 09:52 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkychewbarky View Post
Nice try, Gary...You think Fehr's a fool?
Maybe Gary and the owners want to play some hockey...

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Old
11-29-2012, 10:11 PM
  #42
NJDevs26
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Originally Posted by Lard_Lad View Post
How about we just get the hardliners from both sides in a room together?

Then, we find a really strong padlock...
The first part's probably what'll wind up happening anyway, if it ever comes to pass. You know the owners are going to have their bullies in there, and the players if they wind up accepting are going to be smart enough to have their hardliners in there so they won't get cowed or gulit-tripped.

Obviously the players are going to want either all 30 owners there, or the hard-liners out and the NHL won't agree to that so this probably isn't happening anyway.


Last edited by NJDevs26: 11-29-2012 at 10:17 PM.
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11-29-2012, 10:18 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
Never said that any agreement should be immediately reached within such a meeting. But it's not a bad idea that the two actual sides get to hear each other out directly without the go-betweens.
Exactly. A deal obviously wouldnt be made through this meeting, but some headway could be made. So whats the problem with having a boss and employee meeting without the spin-doctors around?

If the PA says no to this, it will be yet another example that can be pointed to to illustrate that they arent trying to reach a deal.

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11-29-2012, 10:21 PM
  #44
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If the PA says no to this, it will be yet another example that can be pointed to to illustrate that they arent trying to reach a deal.
Bettman's an arrogant *******, but he's not stupid. He's really checkmated the players on this one. Either they refuse and look obstructionist - not to mention damage their decertification case - or they accept on Bettman's terms (having the hardliners run the meeting, and then nothing gets done anyway but the owners still look like they're trying more).

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11-29-2012, 10:22 PM
  #45
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As a fan I would love to see it happen.
As n ex-union rep. no way in hell would I let that happen
I, more than just a fan would like to see this happen.

If unions are for the people they represent why would it prevent or discourage them from meeting with the people they are negotiating with? Can the players not grasp the situation, understand and speak to their side like the union leaders?

I'm sure there are many players outside the current circle that might like to know first hand details and arguments of THEIR negotiations. As many voices of the effected parties should be heard and listened to as possible. It would help draw to a consensus, even if over time.

Just having the talking heads do the negotiations has done nothing so far. With the less information, understanding and imput as you would get hearing second hand it's more susceptible for manipulation by the few. Perhaps, protecting their own interests.

Let's play some damn Hockey!

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11-29-2012, 10:45 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by echlfreak View Post
The owners knowledge of business and the economics of the game vastly outscores that of the players. The players are completely outmatched. From the players perspective the goal of the meeting should not be to outsmart the owners but more so to show absolute and unwavering unity.
This is the single largest issue with this entire debacle.

We are told that all PA decisions are made by the players, including the path of negotiation it takes. Yet the most determined player supporters will admit the vast majority know jack squat of "the business and economics of the game"

...isn't that what this whole damn lockout is about?!...

Sure..the players are "informed".. Meaning that when the NHL tells them they need 50% split to maintain a healthy economic model... Fehr tells the players that this "draconian" request is just a negotiation tactic. This is not for debate... We've seen this numerous times in interviews and in Fehrs made-public memos. Just because they are "informed" , does not mean they understand what the league is saying. Just what Don Fehr interprets the message to be.

I can appreciate that what Bettman has proposed can be viewed as a tactic (especially seen in the light as a precursor to decertification by calling out the players ability to negotiate without a union head). However, if the players can't all together face a meeting with the very people paying them (or negotiating with).. How the hell can they make any judgement calls or take any kind of stance in this entire thing?

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11-29-2012, 11:48 PM
  #47
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Wow is the NHL ever clever and manipulative. Win-win for them either way because they get to influence the players if the players agree to it with their obvious business advantage and if they don't agree then it's another PR win for the NHL.

This is akin to the PA responding by saying: "we'll have the players meet the owners and afterwards the owner's can suit up in a game of hockey against the players where the winner gets X concession. You leave Jacobs out of the meeting and we'll leave Crosby out of the game. "

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11-29-2012, 11:52 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lard_Lad View Post
How about we just get the hardliners from both sides in a room together?

Then, we find a really strong padlock...
Then we seal the doors and start filling the room with water.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by QuietCompany View Post
This is akin to the PA responding by saying: "we'll have the players meet the owners and afterwards the owner's can suit up in a game of hockey against the players where the winner gets X concession. You leave Jacobs out of the meeting and we'll leave Crosby out of the game. "

Like that's going to matter. You pick any 30 NHL players and pit them against the owners in a game, and the players will beat them down.

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11-29-2012, 11:53 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
Methinks Bettman believes the Fehr Bro's are the glue that keeps the NHLPA together and without them in the room, the owners can get the players to think on the League's terms.
Ahh yes the league's terms. After losing a full season, a 24% wage rollback, and giving the owners everything they wanted 8 years ago, they now look forward to a major pay cut and absolutely zero concessions from the owners. Why would any player disagree with that?

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11-29-2012, 11:58 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by sparkychewbarky View Post
Nice try, Gary...You think Fehr's a fool?
what makes you think he isn't? In a year's time you will know he surely was :-)

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