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SFU gains entry into NCAA

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08-07-2012, 12:09 PM
  #1
Oilers Chick
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SFU gains entry into NCAA

Simon Fraser University, based in Burnaby, BC, becomes the first international school to be accepted by the NCAA. SFU will make their NCAA debut as a D-II school and among the varsity sports participating, ice hockey will not be one of them (since DII ice hockey doesn't exist, at least as far as competing for a National Championship is concerned). However, it does pave the way for SFU to eventually field ice hockey, as well as possibly expanding into other sports in the coming years.

You can read more about this HERE and HERE.

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08-07-2012, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Oilers Chick View Post
Simon Fraser University, based in Burnaby, BC, becomes the first international school to be accepted by the NCAA. SFU will make their NCAA debut as a D-II school and among the varsity sports participating, ice hockey will not be one of them (since DII ice hockey doesn't exist, at least as far as competing for a National Championship is concerned). However, it does pave the way for SFU to eventually field ice hockey, as well as possibly expanding into other sports in the coming years.

You can read more about this HERE and HERE.
They've been gone for 2 years already!

UBC was the school the NCAA wanted but in the end UBC stayed put. Hockey was one sport that did not want a move.

SFU plays in the BCIHL along with one other NCAA team, two BCCAC teams, and three CIS teams.

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08-07-2012, 04:48 PM
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Yeah, thought that this was done years ago....

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08-27-2012, 01:43 PM
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Yeah, thought that this was done years ago....
Wasn't it a probationary period to start? They are "officially" in now.

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08-28-2012, 05:59 PM
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Yeah, SFU has been in the GNAC (UAA's conference) for at least a couple years now.

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08-29-2012, 12:02 AM
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Wasn't it a probationary period to start? They are "officially" in now.
Ah, that explains it then.

Are they intending to remain at the D-II level permanently or could they try to move into the D-I level at some point? Theoretically, SFU could become a magnet of sorts for Canadians that want to play in the NCAA but stay in Canada.


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08-29-2012, 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
Ah, that explains it then.

Are they intending to remain at the D-II level permanently or could they try to move into the D-I level at some point? Theoretically, SFU could become a magnet of sorts for Canadians that want to play in the NCAA but stay in Canada.
It was at one time. Back when SFU was in the NAIA they offered scholarships when nobody else in Canada did. That gave them a big edge. But that edge was gone once CIS scholarships came about. By the time they joined the CIS they were just another second tier CIS school.

UBC also considered joining the NCAA. But they decided not to apply.

In hockey, SFU is thrilled to have the BCIHL. They cannot join CIS, there is no NCAA div 1 conference close by, there is no NCAA div 2 hockey, and Eastern Washington joined the BCIHL because it is the closest league for them.

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08-31-2012, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
Ah, that explains it then.

Are they intending to remain at the D-II level permanently or could they try to move into the D-I level at some point? Theoretically, SFU could become a magnet of sorts for Canadians that want to play in the NCAA but stay in Canada.
I don't think NCAA will ever let them/us go to Div I. Imagine if SFU draws that top basketball talent in Canada. It might be enough to go on a decent run in March Madness in a good year. There's just too much money involved for the NCAA. They don't want to lose any revenue. I think it's the same reason UBC didn't join, they were eyeing Div I and they knew NCAA wouldn't give it to them.

The hockey team is just club level. SFU doesn't have any rinks on campus, though I'm not sure if that's needed for Div I.

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09-01-2012, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by RTN View Post
I don't think NCAA will ever let them/us go to Div I. Imagine if SFU draws that top basketball talent in Canada. It might be enough to go on a decent run in March Madness in a good year. There's just too much money involved for the NCAA. They don't want to lose any revenue. I think it's the same reason UBC didn't join, they were eyeing Div I and they knew NCAA wouldn't give it to them.
Um.... no offense, but not thinking many people are worried about a Canadian team making a major run in March Madness.

But even with that, don't get that logic. If anything, you'd think that the NCAA would be interested in opening up a market at least the size of British Columbia or to develop more of a following in Canada then they do now.

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The hockey team is just club level. SFU doesn't have any rinks on campus, though I'm not sure if that's needed for Div I.
Don't know about SFU's venues, but yeah.... a rink would be required. That being said, lots of small Division I schools with varsity hockey programs already have fairly small arenas, as in 2,000ish seats and under, so who knows? A nearby venue might be more than adequate. Though travel might be a bit of an issue for you guys if you ever wanted to jump up to varsity hockey.


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09-01-2012, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
...

Don't know about SFU's venues, but yeah.... a rink would be required. That being said, lots of small Division I schools with varsity hockey programs already have fairly small arenas, as in 2,000ish seats and under, so who knows? A nearby venue might be more than adequate. Though travel might be a bit of an issue for you guys if you ever wanted to jump up to varsity hockey.
To be clear, a school could operate a varsity team in the BCIHL. It is a mix of teams from CIS, NCAA, and BCCAC, some having "club" status within their school and some having "varsity" status.

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09-01-2012, 02:40 PM
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But even with that, don't get that logic. If anything, you'd think that the NCAA would be interested in opening up a market at least the size of British Columbia or to develop more of a following in Canada then they do now.
No offense but Canadians wouldn't fill the requirements to be NCAA fan(atics). It's not in our makeup to fill hockey rinks for college hockey (unless they are small rinks in a city with no pro or major junior CHL team. In the Great White North the pecking order is NHL, Major Junior (CHL), AHL. You can forget the rest as far as attracting 1,000's of fan(atics). The junior league that the NCAA recruits from is referred to as CJHL Tier II and is made up mostly of players who weren't good enough to stick with CHL teams.

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09-23-2012, 06:56 PM
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Hopefully UBC and other big universities in Western Canada take note of what SFU has done. I'm planning to get my degree in journalism at UBC in a few years, and having spot in the NCAA would be pretty awesome.

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11-29-2012, 09:30 PM
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There are some D2 NCAA schools playing D1 hockey right? Could SFU ever consider it?

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11-30-2012, 07:06 AM
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There are some D2 NCAA schools playing D1 hockey right? Could SFU ever consider it?
They could. But they are so far away that it would be prohibitively expensive. And joining the NCAA has had no attendance boost for SFU sports teams so far.

When UBC was considering the NCAA route, hockey was one sport against it.

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11-30-2012, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by RTN View Post
I don't think NCAA will ever let them/us go to Div I. Imagine if SFU draws that top basketball talent in Canada. It might be enough to go on a decent run in March Madness in a good year. There's just too much money involved for the NCAA. They don't want to lose any revenue. I think it's the same reason UBC didn't join, they were eyeing Div I and they knew NCAA wouldn't give it to them.

The hockey team is just club level. SFU doesn't have any rinks on campus, though I'm not sure if that's needed for Div I.
Most do and it certainly helps from a recruiting standpoint. FYI, there are a few D-I teams, mainly in Atlantic Hockey, that do not have on-campus rinks. Two that come to mind are AIC, who play at the Olympia Ice Center, and Sacred Heart, who play at the Milford Ice Pavillion and occasionally at the Webster Bank Arena.

In order for any team to go D-I, there are several hurdles that they'll need to clear first. Most notable is Title IX, which requires most NCAA sports (with the exception of sports like football) to have both a men's and women's team. Even if a team clears all the hurdles to get to the D-I level, there is still the hurdle of gaining membership in a conference. It's not exactly a slam-dunk, just ask Alabama-Huntsville. Now one thing that SFU has going for it as far as gaining conference membership is geography. There are a number of western teams in the NCAA, including two in Alaska. At some point, should either the WCHA or soon-to-be NCHC decide to expand in the coming years and SFU does make it to the D-I Level, that could potentially open the door for them to step into one of those conferences. But that's still a long way, if it ever happens at all.

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12-04-2012, 01:06 PM
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Most do and it certainly helps from a recruiting standpoint. FYI, there are a few D-I teams, mainly in Atlantic Hockey, that do not have on-campus rinks. Two that come to mind are AIC, who play at the Olympia Ice Center, and Sacred Heart, who play at the Milford Ice Pavillion and occasionally at the Webster Bank Arena.

In order for any team to go D-I, there are several hurdles that they'll need to clear first. Most notable is Title IX, which requires most NCAA sports (with the exception of sports like football) to have both a men's and women's team. Even if a team clears all the hurdles to get to the D-I level, there is still the hurdle of gaining membership in a conference. It's not exactly a slam-dunk, just ask Alabama-Huntsville. Now one thing that SFU has going for it as far as gaining conference membership is geography. There are a number of western teams in the NCAA, including two in Alaska. At some point, should either the WCHA or soon-to-be NCHC decide to expand in the coming years and SFU does make it to the D-I Level, that could potentially open the door for them to step into one of those conferences. But that's still a long way, if it ever happens at all.
But why do they have to go D1? D2 schools are already in D1 hockey. Am I missing something?

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12-04-2012, 04:47 PM
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But why do they have to go D1? D2 schools are already in D1 hockey. Am I missing something?
Technically speaking, D-II no longer exists in ice hockey. So teams either go DI or DIII or are simply left at the club level depending on the support (financial and otherwise) of each institution. You are correct that that some schools, such as Colorado College and Clarkson for example, have hockey as their sole D-I sport. Some schools play at either the DII or DIII levels in all other sports that they have.

SFU doesn't necessarily have to go DI, but if they want a shot at the best recruits available and gain the most exposure to NHL teams, then DI is the only option. But it also takes a huge financial commitment as well. Should they opt to go only as far as a DIII level, that could also provide a few benefits such as not needing to set aside scholarship funding (some DI non- Ivy and Service Academy schools such as Union College do not give out scholarships), still getting some pro exposure (although it's almost exclusively by the minor pro ranks) and generally not having to budget out so much money to support the program. But the down side to DIII is the recruiting level overall is not at the level of DI nor is the NHL exposure there.

Club level isn't where SFU wants to be. If they want to go club level, they might as well stay in the CIS. The quality of both players and teams are so much better in the CIS. And before you all start jumping down my throat, I'm NOT implying that the CIS is a lesser quality league than either DI or DIII, just different.

Anyway, I hope this answers your question.

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12-04-2012, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Oilers Chick View Post
Technically speaking, D-II no longer exists in ice hockey. So teams either go DI or DIII or are simply left at the club level depending on the support (financial and otherwise) of each institution. You are correct that that some schools, such as Colorado College and Clarkson for example, have hockey as their sole D-I sport. Some schools play at either the DII or DIII levels in all other sports that they have.

SFU doesn't necessarily have to go DI, but if they want a shot at the best recruits available and gain the most exposure to NHL teams, then DI is the only option. But it also takes a huge financial commitment as well. Should they opt to go only as far as a DIII level, that could also provide a few benefits such as not needing to set aside scholarship funding (some DI non- Ivy and Service Academy schools such as Union College do not give out scholarships), still getting some pro exposure (although it's almost exclusively by the minor pro ranks) and generally not having to budget out so much money to support the program. But the down side to DIII is the recruiting level overall is not at the level of DI nor is the NHL exposure there.

Club level isn't where SFU wants to be. If they want to go club level, they might as well stay in the CIS. The quality of both players and teams are so much better in the CIS. And before you all start jumping down my throat, I'm NOT implying that the CIS is a lesser quality league than either DI or DIII, just different.

Anyway, I hope this answers your question.
SFU has never been in the CIS hockey league. And now that they are not in the CIS they lack that option. They play in the BCIHL. I don't see why they'd leave unless they plan on spending big money on NCAA div 1.

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12-10-2012, 06:36 PM
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I don't think NCAA will ever let them/us go to Div I. Imagine if SFU draws that top basketball talent in Canada. It might be enough to go on a decent run in March Madness in a good year. There's just too much money involved for the NCAA. They don't want to lose any revenue. I think it's the same reason UBC didn't join, they were eyeing Div I and they knew NCAA wouldn't give it to them.

The hockey team is just club level. SFU doesn't have any rinks on campus, though I'm not sure if that's needed for Div I.
DII level is being used as a guinea pig for Canadian schools to see how the logistics / legal issues work out. After 10 years, the decision will be made if Canadian schools can join DI. Right now, a school has to be in DII for five years before it can attempt DI membership, and a DII school must also be offered membership by a DI conference.

What the NCAA would want from a Canadian network is broadcast payments for the NCAA tournaments. SFU getting a share from NCAA DI would be welcomed if the total Canadian payments to the NCAA exceeds what the NCAA pays SFU.

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12-10-2012, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Oilers Chick View Post
Technically speaking, D-II no longer exists in ice hockey. So teams either go DI or DIII or are simply left at the club level depending on the support (financial and otherwise) of each institution. You are correct that that some schools, such as Colorado College and Clarkson for example, have hockey as their sole D-I sport. Some schools play at either the DII or DIII levels in all other sports that they have.

SFU doesn't necessarily have to go DI, but if they want a shot at the best recruits available and gain the most exposure to NHL teams, then DI is the only option. But it also takes a huge financial commitment as well. Should they opt to go only as far as a DIII level, that could also provide a few benefits such as not needing to set aside scholarship funding (some DI non- Ivy and Service Academy schools such as Union College do not give out scholarships), still getting some pro exposure (although it's almost exclusively by the minor pro ranks) and generally not having to budget out so much money to support the program. But the down side to DIII is the recruiting level overall is not at the level of DI nor is the NHL exposure there.

Club level isn't where SFU wants to be. If they want to go club level, they might as well stay in the CIS. The quality of both players and teams are so much better in the CIS. And before you all start jumping down my throat, I'm NOT implying that the CIS is a lesser quality league than either DI or DIII, just different.

Anyway, I hope this answers your question.
DII schools actually play hockey at the DII level (Northeast 10 conference), but there is not enough schools at that level to sponsor an ice hockey championship. DII schools have the option of opting up to DI in that sport only.

A DII school such as SFU can not play at the DIII non-scholarship level. DIII bylaws forbid it. Grandfathered DIII schools can however play up to the DI level (i.e. Colorado College, RIT, Union).

Simon Fraser can chose to offer men's and women's ice hockey at DI level (as well as other sports like men's volleyball, skiing, women's gymnastics, men's and women's water polo that also do not have DII championships). There is no requirement at the DI level on ice rink size. But, at least on the men's side, an ice rink of around 5000 is needed to make ice hockey financially viable. A number of schools have a practice rink near or on campus, but use a larger rink off campus. The main issue is that a geographical outlier like SFU needs to be in a conference, otherwise it will be impossible to schedule.

Actually think the new WCHA would entertain SFU as a hockey school, especially if a nearby US school also added the sport. For example, Eastern Washington has a rink on campus and could play games in Spokane. If the new WCHA added both SFU and EWU, then that league could split into three divisions to save on travel costs:

New WCHA
East
Ferris St
Lake Sup St
Bowling Gree
UAH

Central
N Mich
Mich Tech
MSU-Mankato
Bemidji St

West
Alaska
Alaska-Anchorage
Simon Fraser
E Washington

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12-11-2012, 10:23 PM
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Never say never, but I can't see SFU going D1 for hockey, just given the financial commitment and need to ice a women's team as well, which would cost more money. An arena would be another issue. As far as I know, there's no room to build on on campus, and even then the logistics of getting a good crowd up there would be a nightmare. Bill Copeland in Burnaby is too small, and there's zero chance the WHL Giants would allow them to play at the Pacific Coliseum.

Logistics aside, they'd be smack-dab in the middle of a recruting gold mine with BCHL right there and the AJHL next door. 91 players from the BCHL, this season alone, have committed for D1 schools next season or 2014.

I think the only realistic option for SFU is to stay in the BCIHL as Major Junior grads are allowed to play in it.

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