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Owner-Player meeting only, no Bettman or Fehr (UPD: 12/4 in NYC)

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Old
11-30-2012, 12:04 AM
  #51
Up the Irons
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meh. i suppose it might help the situation a bit. but, the bottom line is there will not be NHL hockey until all parties involved decide (more like have an epiphany) that actually playing the games is more important then their pocket book and pride.

not hold your breath.

the very existence of the NHL will be decided in the next month.

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11-30-2012, 12:05 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by CpatainCanuck View Post
To simplify you're lengthy post: the players don't have a clue about the business side of the game. Their best bet in an owners/players meeting would be to link arms, plug ears and sing the union march, because any attempt to actually negotiate would just show their utter incompetence.
Yeah the players are such morons. None of them have college degrees like the owners. None of them are self made millionaires like Jeremy Jacobs. Their best bet is to just give the owners the pie and not get anything back in concessions like the owners are offering.

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11-30-2012, 12:06 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by octopi View Post
Like that's going to matter. You pick any 30 NHL players and pit them against the owners in a game, and the players will beat them down.
You did a brilliant job in missing the whole point.

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Old
11-30-2012, 12:13 AM
  #54
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http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nhl--fa...034356039.html

Cotsonika: Player/owner meeting - a risk the NHLPA has to take (even if some might call it a trap, ala Braveheart's Wallace)

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11-30-2012, 12:16 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by QuietCompany View Post
This is akin to the PA responding by saying: "we'll have the players meet the owners and afterwards the owner's can suit up in a game of hockey against the players where the winner gets X concession. You leave Jacobs out of the meeting and we'll leave Crosby out of the game. "
I get the reference...but its not really the same thing seeing as this lockout has nothing to do with who is a better hockey player.

The way I see this... if the players can't handle a meeting with the owners, and from it, form their own unbiased opinion...how the hell can they dictate the direction of the PA to negotiate (which by Fehr's words is exactly whats going on?).

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11-30-2012, 12:22 AM
  #56
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The only reason for NHL to want this is some naive belief that the players would accept NHLs proposal and that won't happen.

There is no way NHL will send the owners in with some sort of compromise.

I wish they would spare us these things and show some leadership instead of tossing a piece of glowing charcoal at each other and then trumpet to the media "look, they didn't catch it". Their little games are pathetic at this stage.

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11-30-2012, 12:27 AM
  #57
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This is along the same strain as when the league allowed a "window" of owners talking to players.

The players hired Fehr for a reason. They're not stupid enough to think they can do this on their own.

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11-30-2012, 12:43 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by echlfreak View Post
Malhotra, Westgarth, Parros, Montador, Campoli, Morrison, Darche, Biron, Auld, Dubinsky, Adams, Aucoin, Winnik, Crombeen...which one of these guys are star players who stand to lose their massive deals?
Clearly you didn't read what I wrote.

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11-30-2012, 12:45 AM
  #59
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The league are idiots.

They think Fehr has the players under a spell that they can break if they get around Fehr somehow.

It's the same mistake MLB made. Fehr is very good at what he does and has the backing behind him cuz he plays it straight with his union members. The owners getting players alone and telling them Fehr is leading them astray will just unify the PA even more.

You'd think the league would've done their homework on Fehr. They're idiotic.

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11-30-2012, 12:51 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
this is a bunch of crap.

DF spin? Players can and have been encouraged to attend each and every meeting.

How can one spin somnething that is 100% open to any player that wants to attend?

the DF hate here is getting absurd.
LOL. This has absolutely nothing to do with disliking DF. If you do not think that DF is spinning what the NHL is saying, then you need to wake up and smell the coffee. He absolutely is spinning it. That doesn't mean he's lying, just putting his twist on things, so that the players get his message, and see things his way. Why do you think the NHL posted their 2nd offer on their website? It wasn't because they were working on "winning" the PR campaign.

You (the NHL) can offer me (the PA) a gradual reduced split (54%, 51%, 50%, 50% over a 7 yr deal) and say how the players shouldn't take an escrow hit. And when I take that back to the players, I simply point out that the NHL has asked us to give up X billion dollars (which DF has done MANY times). Instead of him pointing out the good things, he simply points out the negative things. Now is that not him spinning the message? Of course it is.

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11-30-2012, 12:58 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by SidTheKid8787 View Post
The league are idiots.

They think Fehr has the players under a spell that they can break if they get around Fehr somehow.

It's the same mistake MLB made. Fehr is very good at what he does and has the backing behind him cuz he plays it straight with his union members. The owners getting players alone and telling them Fehr is leading them astray will just unify the PA even more.

You'd think the league would've done their homework on Fehr. They're idiotic.
You don't think Fehr is manipulating the players at all? He is straight-shooter? Really?

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11-30-2012, 12:59 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Pinnerdink View Post
This is the single largest issue with this entire debacle.

We are told that all PA decisions are made by the players, including the path of negotiation it takes. Yet the most determined player supporters will admit the vast majority know jack squat of "the business and economics of the game"

...isn't that what this whole damn lockout is about?!...

Sure..the players are "informed".. Meaning that when the NHL tells them they need 50% split to maintain a healthy economic model... Fehr tells the players that this "draconian" request is just a negotiation tactic. This is not for debate... We've seen this numerous times in interviews and in Fehrs made-public memos. Just because they are "informed" , does not mean they understand what the league is saying. Just what Don Fehr interprets the message to be.
The players at least were sufficiently informed to know the opening offer that had them taking a 24% paycut to get to 43% of a redefined HRR (along with all the contracting rights, and 10 yrs of service to reach UFA status) was what was termed "draconian" by everyone not part of the NHL.

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11-30-2012, 01:00 AM
  #63
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If the players cause is just they'll hold strong and win over some of the owners and bring them over to their side.

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11-30-2012, 01:01 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruinsNeedaRussian View Post
You don't think Fehr is manipulating the players at all? He is straight-shooter? Really?

Indeed. To suggest otherwise would mean he's duplicitous and on a par with Eagleson.

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11-30-2012, 01:02 AM
  #65
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If it gives us a season, then why not? Neither side will let themselves be screwed over anyway so it can't hurt.

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11-30-2012, 01:05 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by BruinsNeedaRussian View Post
You don't think Fehr is manipulating the players at all? He is straight-shooter? Really?
He isn't.
He is a straight shooter with his constituents.
Yes.

No matter if you think the players are dumb for missing pay cheques and thier delinked offers will never fly. Fehr has an end game. Short term pain for long term gain is his game.

Fehr may win or lose this battle.
It's a different opponent, the finances are different but he just may make it bloody enough that the league recognizes the union and doesn't see it as a pushover everytime a CBA needs renegotiated.

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11-30-2012, 01:13 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by BruinsNeedaRussian View Post
You don't think Fehr is manipulating the players at all? He is straight-shooter? Really?
Do you have any evidence to suggest he is?

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Old
11-30-2012, 01:15 AM
  #68
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This was done before if I'm not mistaken.

In 1954 maybe.

Hahaha.

Nice try Gary .

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11-30-2012, 01:22 AM
  #69
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if i'm a player, i say let's do it. you can always decline their offer, or at least set up a vote on an offer. just because you go in to the meeting to see what happens doesn't mean that you're automatically going to agree with what they owners say.

besides, isn't it possible that the owners offer the players a better deal in the room because Fehr isn't there? give them better terms etc as a token of dropping Fehr as their leader?

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11-30-2012, 01:28 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Mika Silfverberg View Post
if i'm a player, i say let's do it. you can always decline their offer, or at least set up a vote on an offer. just because you go in to the meeting to see what happens doesn't mean that you're automatically going to agree with what they owners say.

besides, isn't it possible that the owners offer the players a better deal in the room because Fehr isn't there? give them better terms etc as a token of dropping Fehr as their leader?
You don't go to a gun fight without a gun.

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11-30-2012, 01:31 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
The players at least were sufficiently informed to know the opening offer that had them taking a 24% paycut to get to 43% of a redefined HRR (along with all the contracting rights, and 10 yrs of service to reach UFA status) was what was termed "draconian" by everyone not part of the NHL.
The point I'm making is the definition of what it means the players are fully informed.

The double standard seems to be that its unfair (or strictly a tactic) to ask the players to sit and listen to what the owners have to say directly to them. As the concensus is, they don't have the same understanding about the economics side of what is going on.

Yet in the same breath, its said that they are well informed because they sit in meetings themselves.

If they're able to fully comprehend what is being presented and put on the table at one meeting (and then pass this information on to the rest of the players)...what is so unfair about asking them to do it one on one with owners and without Fehr?

I suppose I just don't see the harm or why this is such an unfair request to have an owners / players meeting...when theyve already drawn their own conclusions from whats been said and done.

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Old
11-30-2012, 01:44 AM
  #72
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I think it is a smart move by the league. But one side is being overlooked here. If in fact they are inviting all owners to this or representatives from each organization, it could be an effort to close ranks. People keep wondering if the Owners are coming apart it is a smaller group to keep in order than 700 but still have all 30 show up. Explain the positions and watch if the room explodes and the players argue unreasonable positions.

You do get Fehr and Bettman out of the room, but you also get to show maybe some of the owners that are confused, the players aren't negotiating. If they turn it down they are basically saying no thanks which would crush some of the more moderate owners that are more eager to get to the bargaining table and hammer out a deal.

I think this could be a powerful move by Jacobs and Bettman assuming all are invited to attend.

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11-30-2012, 01:46 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Some Other Flame View Post
Do you have any evidence to suggest he is?
A player who's a Princeton grad was unable to answer the most basic questions presented to him a couple of days ago in a sports panel discussion.

Of course, this player may have purposefully ignored all communications from his PA Exec and therefore had no idea about the positions he was supposed to take...

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11-30-2012, 01:48 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Pinnerdink View Post
The point I'm making is the definition of what it means the players are fully informed.

The double standard seems to be that its unfair (or strictly a tactic) to ask the players to sit and listen to what the owners have to say directly to them. As the concensus is, they don't have the same understanding about the economics side of what is going on.

Yet in the same breath, its said that they are well informed because they sit in meetings themselves.

If they're able to fully comprehend what is being presented and put on the table at one meeting (and then pass this information on to the rest of the players)...what is so unfair about asking them to do it one on one with owners and without Fehr?

I suppose I just don't see the harm or why this is such an unfair request to have an owners / players meeting...when theyve already drawn their own conclusions from whats been said and done.

I've never claimed they're uninformed (as that seems to be a favorite past-time here). To the extent that each player can fully grasp all the issues isn't a variable we can define, but honestly, it's not like we're asking them to reproduce the Navier-Stokes equations.

They should be able to understand how much they make, how much less they'll make and everyone can understand when they'll reach UFA status or whether or not having other limits on contracting rights will affect their careers.

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11-30-2012, 01:49 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
A player who's a Princeton grad was unable to answer the most basic questions presented to him a couple of days ago in a sports panel discussion.

Of course, this player may have purposefully ignored all communications from his PA Exec and therefore had no idea about the positions he was supposed to take...

I'd blame Princeton.

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