HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Anaheim Ducks
Notices

LA Angels of Anaheim Discussion

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-19-2012, 06:38 PM
  #826
Corey Perry*
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Long Beach, Ca
Country: Ireland
Posts: 3,531
vCash: 500
Um... the Rangers paid a posting fee for Darvish.

Corey Perry* is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 02:31 AM
  #827
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
 
Hockey Duckie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: southern cal
Posts: 2,589
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hampeus View Post
Um... the Rangers paid a posting fee for Darvish.
Crap. I got mixed up in thought.

Two ways not to get posting fees: wait till they're FA from japan or before they join. I was jumping around in thought. Thanks for catching it.

Hockey Duckie is offline  
Old
11-22-2012, 11:07 AM
  #828
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
 
Hockey Duckie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: southern cal
Posts: 2,589
vCash: 500
RHP Kuroda re-signs with the Yanks worth $15 for one year. Yikes. That's much higher than some people had predicted, which was about $13.75 mil per year.

There are rumors that Greinke wants $150 for six years. That's $25 mil per year! That's more per year than Pujos' average on 10 years for $240. I think the Angels will be priced out by the Dodgers. And knowing the Dodgers, they'll be competing for Greinke's services against a mystery (probably non-existent) team and raise that contract price up much higher.

So the Angels better be looking at grabbing some middle of the road starting pitchers, but aim after really great relief pitchers. Jerome Williams is great at long relieving. I hope the Angels grab Japan's best reliever, Fujikawa. Then at least we would have our 7th, 8th, and 9th innings already decided with the combination of Downs, Frieri, and Fujikawa. That leaves an improved Jepsen, hopefully a more refined Walden, middle relief of Hawkins, and long reliever Williams in toe. We do have a LHP in Brad Mills, but I don't know if anything will develop from him because he wasn't brought up last season.

We aren't that bad off if you think of how terribly we were with Santana and Haren, alone.

PitcherWins Losses ERA HRs allowed
Haren12134.3328
Santana9135.1639
Total/Avg21264.7567

Both Haren and Santana ranked in the top 10 of the AL of HRs allowed, with Santana ranked #1. That's a top billing worth not representing. Also, both of them ranked in the bottom 10 in the worst ERA in the AL.

Wow. I never realized how bad those two were until looking up the stats for this past year. Actually, both have had bad years for the past two years based upon quick glances at HRs allowed.

This team won't be terrible if the Angels are not able to retain Greinke's services. If Greinke wants to be in a stable situation, the Angels can provide that. The Angels have two aces in Weaver and Wilson. The outfield is probably one of the best defensive outfields where two players are only needed out there instead of three, but by regulation we need three otherwise how can we find a place on the team for Trumbo? (Trout moves to LF and the only person better than him at CF will actually get to play there full time, Bourjous.)

Greinke Split, simple stats
TeamWins Losses ERA
Mil933.44
LAAA623.53

Consider the following, the Angels were one game from being tied to being a playoff wild card. Two games from actually participating in the playoffs. Six games from being tied to the division lead. Seven games from winning the division. Imagine if we had Greinke for the whole season even with a bad Haren and Santana? If it's about being a playoff contender, then I'd pitch this to Greinke. But if it's about the money, then I'd go find a different direction. We're still stuck with Wells' contract along with Pujos' as well.

Anyhow, if we lose out on Greinke, then things aren't as bad as it may be. The organization has jettisoned two really terrible pitchers. Acquiring two average starters combined with Richards should be adequate. Bolstering the bullpen is a much more pertinent situation that needs addressing with 22 blown saves, tied for tops in the AL.

Hockey Duckie is offline  
Old
11-28-2012, 10:37 PM
  #829
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
 
Hockey Duckie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: southern cal
Posts: 2,589
vCash: 500
Angels signed relief RHP Ryan Madson to a one year contract. He didn't play last year due to having Tommy John surgery. The expectation is he should fully recover physically. Still a gamble to put into the bullpen. I hope the Angels are expecting to sign a couple more relievers.

Hockey Duckie is offline  
Old
11-28-2012, 10:59 PM
  #830
KEEROLE Vatanen
Failures Of Fenwick
 
KEEROLE Vatanen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 14,266
vCash: 500
So Angels lose Hunter, Haren, Greinke, Santana and gain Madson....wow this team looks real mediocre

KEEROLE Vatanen is online now  
Old
11-28-2012, 11:55 PM
  #831
AngelDuck
Registered User
 
AngelDuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,195
vCash: 500
Relax people the offseason just started. Dipoto is going to sign a couple more starters and a reliever probably. They'll be fine. Just need to fire Scisocia and Butcher.

AngelDuck is online now  
Old
11-29-2012, 12:16 PM
  #832
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
 
Hockey Duckie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: southern cal
Posts: 2,589
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
So Angels lose Hunter, Haren, Greinke, Santana and gain Madson....wow this team looks real mediocre
1. Losing Haren and Santana for their performance last year with their salary was a great move. Both ranked at the bottom of the barrel for starting pitchers.(Read previous posts in this thread for that info.) Yes, they both were that abysmal, with Santana leading the league in most HRs given up. Acquiring middle of the road pitchers would help improve that starting rotation.

2. Hunter wanted way too much money for his 38th and 39th birthdays. Plus, you have Peter Bourjos chomping at the bit to become a full time starter and the only player that can move Super-Phenom Trout from center field to left field in all of the MLB. That actually helps both Trout and Trumbo such that the field is shorter for Trout to throw with an average arm and that Trumbo will have less field to cover now that Trout and Bourjos can cover about 90% of the outfield by themselves. Also, on the base paths, Hunter is fast, but not Bourjos fast. That speed in base running will help change the dynamic of the game as Trout did it last year with his 49 steals and turning singles into doubles, going from first to third, or going from second to home.

Hunter deal: $ 13 million per year (2 years for $26 million)
Bourjos deal: $ 0.5 million (arbitration years from 2013 - 2016, basically a rookie contract)

3. Losing Greinke is bad. The Angels gave up top infielding prospect Jean Segura and two AA pitchers. We were thin in the pitching prospect for the farm team. Essentially, we gave up a lot of our farm team for a rental of a couple of months with nothing to show. What hurts more is the lack of pitching prospects that could only be masked by re-signing Greinke. If the Angels did that, then we have three aces and could rebuild the farm system's pitching depth.

Yet, the price that Greinke wants is outrageous. His contract is projected to eclipse $161 million for seven years. That's an average of $23 million per year on a player that plays once every five games that is played. I'm still smarting from the Vernon Wells deal to which we have $48 million for the next two years. If Vernon was performing like Mike Trout, then I wouldn't complain, but he's playing so bad that he can't find time to be in the line up at all.

There's no way to sugar coat on the loss of Greinke because of the prospects we lost for nothing. But as for how the loss of Greinke will mean to the Angels and their playoff prospect, I'm not sure it's a huge loss because Greinke came in at the end. He was 6 - 2, in 13 starts. And yet Greinke still was not able to power the Angels into the playoffs.

4. What really hurt the chances of becoming a playoff team happens to belong to the bullpen. They blew 22 saves this past year, leading the AL with the worst save percentage. Two seasons ago, the Angels blew 25 saves. If the Angels are able to cut the 22 blown saves in half, then the Angels win the division. So acquiring a Madson and hopefully Fujikawa will help limit those blown opportunities.

The Angels ranked 4th overall in the MLB in runs scored with 767. The starting crew has the Angels ranked 14th overall in the MLB with an ERA of 4.04. Relief pitching, the Angels rank 22nd overall in the MLB with a 3.97 ERA. In short, the Angels can score, but they can't stop the other team from scoring in the later innings. Here's a hockey parallel: your team can score and score in bunches, but when game is on the line in a close game, your netminder has a tendency to allow soft goals like Bryzgalov or either AHL Admirals goalies (soft goal allowed).

********
Now here's some of the things to look forward to next season:
1. Mike Trout for the whole season.
2. A healthy Trumbo. (I didn't know Trumbo had a rib injury after all-star break. That could have a big reason why Trumbo tanked quickly and never heard from again since the All-star games.)
3. Ryan Madson. Most players coming off Tommy John surgeries generally are stronger after having the surgery. This gives the Angels a lot of ways to shorten the game (7th, 8th, and 9th innings) because we have Frieri and Downs.
4. Frieri for the whole year.
5. Morales in better shape!
6. Hank Conger actually gets to play at the MLB level. (Power switch hitting catcher youngster.)
7. Bourjos becomes a daily ball player. That means he improves the defense more at center which improves the defense at left field as Trout moves to left field from center.


I like a big splash like any other fan, but the Angels do not have the obscene cash flow of the Dodgers. We did a huge splash last winter. We made a splash during the season. The Angels lost a huge part of their farm this past season. I don't think we need another impulse move a la Vernon Wells trade. Grab better relievers and hope we have average pitchers signed such that the Angels will have pitchers that need to only pitch six innings with the notion the last nine outs are accounted for by Down, Frieri, Madson, and hopefully Fujikawa.

The only place I do want to see an improvement at is at third base, where a power hitter would be nice. The Angels do have a nice prospect at third base, but a couple of seasons away from seeing the MLB level.

Hockey Duckie is offline  
Old
11-29-2012, 01:55 PM
  #833
DarthYenik
Registered User
 
DarthYenik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Orange County, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,726
vCash: 500
Greinke looks way too overpriced. He wants an ace contract, better yet he wants a Cy Young winner's contract, yet he's only a moderately good pitcher. Sure he's reliable and the Angels definitely need that, but he's got Dipoto over a barrel, and he seems like he wants to do as much damage as possible. I don't want to give him the satisfaction.

DarthYenik is offline  
Old
11-29-2012, 02:16 PM
  #834
Gliff
Nick Bonino
 
Gliff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: California
Country: United States
Posts: 7,142
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthYenik View Post
Greinke looks way too overpriced. He wants an ace contract, better yet he wants a Cy Young winner's contract, yet he's only a moderately good pitcher. Sure he's reliable and the Angels definitely need that, but he's got Dipoto over a barrel, and he seems like he wants to do as much damage as possible. I don't want to give him the satisfaction.
He is an Ace in his prime who happens to be a previous Cy Young Winner......What do you expect?

Gliff is online now  
Old
11-29-2012, 02:56 PM
  #835
AngelDuck
Registered User
 
AngelDuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,195
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gliff View Post
He is an Ace in his prime who happens to be a previous Cy Young Winner......What do you expect?
True, but I'd rather get two pitchers for cheaper. We could get Mccarthy AND Marcum combined for less money than Greinke.

AngelDuck is online now  
Old
11-29-2012, 03:10 PM
  #836
Gliff
Nick Bonino
 
Gliff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: California
Country: United States
Posts: 7,142
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelDuck View Post
True, but I'd rather get two pitchers for cheaper. We could get Mccarthy AND Marcum combined for less money than Greinke.
You are correct. But he was complaining that Greinke was asking for too much when he deserves just that. ALOT

Gliff is online now  
Old
11-29-2012, 03:28 PM
  #837
DarthYenik
Registered User
 
DarthYenik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Orange County, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,726
vCash: 500
He's not the best pitcher in the game, therefore he doesn't deserve what he's asking for, which is to be the highest paid pitcher in the game. Sadly, the way the business of baseball goes, someone will throw the money at him just because he's the best thing out there this off-season.

DarthYenik is offline  
Old
11-29-2012, 03:36 PM
  #838
Vamos Rafa
¡Vamos!
 
Vamos Rafa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Clay Court
Country: Spain
Posts: 10,473
vCash: 500
R.I.P. Angels PA announcer David Courtney

Vamos Rafa is online now  
Old
11-29-2012, 05:03 PM
  #839
Gliff
Nick Bonino
 
Gliff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: California
Country: United States
Posts: 7,142
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthYenik View Post
He's not the best pitcher in the game, therefore he doesn't deserve what he's asking for, which is to be the highest paid pitcher in the game. Sadly, the way the business of baseball goes, someone will throw the money at him just because he's the best thing out there this off-season.
Then dont sign him. Its that easy.

Gliff is online now  
Old
11-29-2012, 05:36 PM
  #840
DarthYenik
Registered User
 
DarthYenik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Orange County, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,726
vCash: 500
Exactly what I'm saying.

DarthYenik is offline  
Old
11-29-2012, 06:09 PM
  #841
Gliff
Nick Bonino
 
Gliff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: California
Country: United States
Posts: 7,142
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthYenik View Post
Exactly what I'm saying.
I just dont understand why this is so ground breaking that the top FA pitcher who is in his prime and a past Cy Young winner would want to be the highest paid pitcher in baseball. Very rarely is the best player in a sport really the highest paid. Its all about leverage and he has it all.

Gliff is online now  
Old
11-30-2012, 01:03 AM
  #842
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
 
Hockey Duckie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: southern cal
Posts: 2,589
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gliff View Post
I just dont understand why this is so ground breaking that the top FA pitcher who is in his prime and a past Cy Young winner would want to be the highest paid pitcher in baseball. Very rarely is the best player in a sport really the highest paid. Its all about leverage and he has it all.
Ummmm... what? (Refer to the embolden sentence.)

Hockey Duckie is offline  
Old
11-30-2012, 01:16 AM
  #843
AngelDuck
Registered User
 
AngelDuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,195
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Duckie View Post
Ummmm... what? (Refer to the embolden sentence.)
what's not clear about that? Most times it totally depends on when you're an FA. If you're an FA with a shallow market, you're going to get paid because you're the best thing out there. That's what Greinke's going through. There is demand from big-market teams (Dodgers, Angels, Rangers), and he is the best pitcher on the market. Not necessarily the best pitcher in the game. If other great pitchers were FA's this year, guys like Kershaw, Felix, etc. Greinke probably would not be in line for such a huge payday because there would be much less demand for him.

He's going to get 6/150. Maybe even 7/165. And in this FA market, he deserves it.

AngelDuck is online now  
Old
11-30-2012, 02:05 PM
  #844
AngelDuck
Registered User
 
AngelDuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,195
vCash: 500
Jordan Walden for Tommy Hanson straight up.

Love it.

AngelDuck is online now  
Old
11-30-2012, 02:47 PM
  #845
Static
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: SoCal
Country: United States
Posts: 17,125
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Static
Hanson's arm may fall off on the mound, it's not as awesome as it may seem. He throws only around 89 now.

Static is offline  
Old
11-30-2012, 04:47 PM
  #846
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
 
Hockey Duckie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: southern cal
Posts: 2,589
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelDuck View Post
what's not clear about that? Most times it totally depends on when you're an FA. If you're an FA with a shallow market, you're going to get paid because you're the best thing out there. That's what Greinke's going through. There is demand from big-market teams (Dodgers, Angels, Rangers), and he is the best pitcher on the market. Not necessarily the best pitcher in the game. If other great pitchers were FA's this year, guys like Kershaw, Felix, etc. Greinke probably would not be in line for such a huge payday because there would be much less demand for him.

He's going to get 6/150. Maybe even 7/165. And in this FA market, he deserves it.

Ummm... you speak like a politician. Last year, both Pujols and Wilson got paid. In fact, if you're very good you will get paid big money regardless of sport. The only exception may be for football players due to their short life playing span, especially for running backs.

And then you go on to say Greinke's the best pitcher on the market this year, but not necessarily the best pitcher. So... he's getting paid like the best pitcher, but he's not the best pitcher. I hope you realize I'm just picking on what you're saying because of what you're saying... politician-like speak.

Anyhow, deserving or no, that's a lot of money which ties in a lot of risk. We own two of those types of albatross contracts in Wells and Pujols. Anyhow, look at Dan Haren, was good and then blah. Look at the Kazmir effect. Again, bleah. Then look at the deals for both Weaver and Wilson, they both are on the cheap. The Angels got lucky with those contracts.

Hockey Duckie is offline  
Old
11-30-2012, 04:57 PM
  #847
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
 
Hockey Duckie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: southern cal
Posts: 2,589
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Static View Post
Hanson's arm may fall off on the mound, it's not as awesome as it may seem. He throws only around 89 now.
I forgot where I read it, but his velocity has been dropping for the past three years. Also, he has a very slow delivery as he allowed 31 stolen bases. He ranks a few spots below Dan Haren.

I am so not thrilled with this trade, especially if we don't sign Fujikawa to replace Walden's spot in the bullpen.

In short, we traded for a much, much cheaper version of Dan Haren. Haren was projected to be paid $16 mil (or something like that) vs Hanson's $4 million. Granted, Walden has been crap, but he's still young. So we traded crap with high potential for crap with a trending loss of velocity.

Again, I'd be much happier with Joe Saunders as my fourth or fifth starter... or even third. Plus, he didn't have to cost Walden. Maybe I'm just looking for a better deal for Walden the same way Dipoto fleeced us for Haren when he was in Arizona.

Hockey Duckie is offline  
Old
11-30-2012, 10:15 PM
  #848
KelVarnsen
Trade Etem!
 
KelVarnsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mission Viejo
Country: United States
Posts: 3,246
vCash: 500
Walden sucks. He may throw 100 but he is wild, his pitches are flat, and he is a headcase. Good trade IMO.

KelVarnsen is online now  
Old
11-30-2012, 11:29 PM
  #849
Gliff
Nick Bonino
 
Gliff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: California
Country: United States
Posts: 7,142
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Duckie View Post
Ummmm... what? (Refer to the embolden sentence.)
Is Crosby the highest paid player in the NHL?

What is so hard to understand?

Gliff is online now  
Old
12-01-2012, 11:45 AM
  #850
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
 
Hockey Duckie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: southern cal
Posts: 2,589
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gliff View Post
Is Crosby the highest paid player in the NHL?

What is so hard to understand?
So last year he was the best player in the sport? But if i do recall, Crosby was paid his current salary on his second contract. He was paid the highest. Compare that to MVP Perry (which by the way designates that Crosby wasn't the best player, but does coincide with not the most money, and yet only signifies a brilliance in one year). The best players do get paid. If they are paid less, then they choose to play for less for specific reasons. Teemu should be paid mad money, but we're getting him on the cheap because he likes us. Similarly for Jared Weaver.

But the notion that they aren't paid enough is ludicrous. Do you see Crosby only making Matt Beleskey money? No. Nowhere close to that. So I find the comment very stupid as it's making a hyperbole of the situation of something so obvious. The comment isn't even Yogi Berra-esque, but an illusion that he, Greinke, won't be making money. Explain how so many teams are strapped with bad contracts? Wells, GMJr, Abreu, ARod, and most recently will be Torii and his $26 million.

That comment runs parallel to the idiocracy notion that Torii would be willing to give the Angels a discount to play with them again, but ran counter for what seems like he was searching for $26 million for two years.

Hockey Duckie is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:51 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.