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Old
11-29-2012, 09:00 PM
  #26
WeWantACup
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Here is some of our thoughts on the current state of the Leafs with Burke at the helm. Episode 9 called 1967

https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/...rs/id577173646 judging on this tread so far this may not be our most popular show.


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11-29-2012, 09:10 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by hero View Post
If only burke had just gone with the "five year" plan, instead of trying to do a speed retool.

Could have had so much more than Kessel.
If only Burke would have kept his mouth shut and focused on his job, we'd be in better shape. If Burke would have done right by the team and fired Wilson the minute he got here I feel the Leafs would have improved, instead he let his big ego get in the way of what was right for the team. If only Burke had not brought in ballerinas like Connolly, Lombardi etc and instead give guys like Kadri a fair shake IMO we'd be better off etc.

The one thing I will give Burke credit for is landing Kessel, guys like him are a rarity, the fact Burke got him for mere picks instead of roster players was a sheer genius move on his part.

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11-29-2012, 09:20 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by WeWantACup View Post
Here is some of our thoughts on the current state of the Leafs with Burke at the helm. Episode 9 called 1967

https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/...rs/id577173646 judging on this tread so far this may not be our most popular show.

Of course not.

It's easier to be negative and pessimistic and call yourselves realists [even though the odds are heavily in your favour] and if wrong admit it when things are good and everyone is happy.

In sport it takes a lot to be optimistic, open minded and objective before results hit the table [especially considering the odds].

Simple as.

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11-29-2012, 09:26 PM
  #29
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Of course not.

It's easier to be negative and pessimistic and call yourselves realists [even though the odds are heavily in your favour] and if wrong admit it when things are good and everyone is happy.

In sport it takes a lot to be optimistic, open minded and objective before results hit the table [especially considering the odds].

Simple as.
At the same time sounds pretty easy to call oneself open minded and objective while one-sidedly denouncing the other side of the argument.

Optimism is nice, but frankly it doesn't sound very objective considering what we've seen these past few years.

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11-29-2012, 09:27 PM
  #30
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Of course not.

It's easier to be negative and pessimistic and call yourselves realists [even though the odds are heavily in your favour] and if wrong admit it when things are good and everyone is happy.

In sport it takes a lot to be optimistic, open minded and objective before results hit the table [especially considering the odds].

Simple as.
Agreed but sports is a result based business and even the most optimistic fan mus have his reservations about the Leafs lineup.

There is a distinct difference between acceptance and being optimistic.

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11-29-2012, 09:28 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
At the same time sounds pretty easy to call oneself open minded and objective while one-sidedly denouncing the other side of the argument.

Optimism is nice, but frankly it doesn't sound very objective considering what we've seen these past few years.
Well to be fair I think most sport conversations should happen somewhere in the middle because it's really impossible to know. IT really bothers me when people bring out their crystal balls like facts.

Point well taken though.

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11-29-2012, 09:31 PM
  #32
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Agreed but sports is a result based business and even the most optimistic fan mus have his reservations about the Leafs lineup.

There is a distinct difference between acceptance and being optimistic.
Fair enough. I don't have many reservations as I think it is far too early to tell. Perhaps that makes me more accepting of Burke's choices but in the same breathe there really isn't enough results to think he's failed us in Toronto, IMO.

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11-29-2012, 09:32 PM
  #33
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Fair enough. I don't have many reservations as I think it is far too early to tell. Perhaps that makes me more accepting of Burke's choices but in the same breathe there really isn't enough results to think he's failed us in Toronto, IMO.
i can understand what you are saying but it is he who set the timelines

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11-29-2012, 09:35 PM
  #34
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i can understand what you are saying but it is he who set the timelines
To be fair Burke admitted he failed as GM, right from the big horses mouth, not sure how much simpler it can be

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11-29-2012, 09:55 PM
  #35
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Agreed but sports is a result based business and even the most optimistic fan mus have his reservations about the Leafs lineup.

There is a distinct difference between acceptance and being optimistic.
Nice to see you.

When Burkewas telling LEafs Nation what it wanted to hear...that it wouldn't take 5 years to make the playoffs...I heard a lot of media people looking at the club were saying 7 years to make it competetive.

And to be honest when you take into account the amount of young talent of the teams we were beating, and the Prime aged Talent on the teams we were chasing and the assets we were left with, 7 years was far more reasonable.

Most teams can make a rebuild in 5 years because they have soem good pieces to move out. And if we could have moved McCabe, Sundin, Kaberle and Tucker while their value was high, we wouldn't have needed to bring in Burke for a rebuild.

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i can understand what you are saying but it is he who set the timelines
He got ahead of himself.

I would have loved to have seen what Burke would have done with Steen and Coli as assets.

Heck Steen might be our #1C right now if not for Fletcher's deperate shot in the dark. We might still have White, and moved Coli in the Phaneuf deal. Who knows.

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To be fair Burke admitted he failed as GM, right from the big horses mouth, not sure how much simpler it can be
This is just another reason I llike him.

He admitted he failed in the first goal he set out, which was getting back in the playoffs. Sure he wasn't happy about it, but throwing a tantrum about it won't change anything.

I laugh when people think him admitting his failure is a reason to fire him. Even his failure in itself is not a reason to fire him. Such things remind me of hte knee jerk reactions of Govt.s and companies who are only worried about optics and not substance.

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11-29-2012, 10:03 PM
  #36
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i can understand what you are saying but it is he who set the timelines
I agree with that. He talked big and didn't come close but he didn't sell the farm to do it either.

I'm more interested in supporting Burke as it's stands for what's best for the Maple Leafs going forward rather than getting on his case for being too optimistic or naive [whichever way you want to see it] when he started.

I think if Pittsburgh, Chicago, Anaheim, Detroit, LA [pretty much all the recent cup winners] get 5-10+ years to get there, than Burke should get at least more than 3/12 - 4.

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Old
11-29-2012, 10:05 PM
  #37
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This is just another reason I llike him.

He admitted he failed in the first goal he set out, which was getting back in the playoffs. Sure he wasn't happy about it, but throwing a tantrum about it won't change anything.

I laugh when people think him admitting his failure is a reason to fire him. Even his failure in itself is not a reason to fire him. Such things remind me of hte knee jerk reactions of Govt.s and companies who are only worried about optics and not substance.
Music to my ears.

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Old
11-29-2012, 10:06 PM
  #38
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Now that Burke is just starting his 5th year, people will say he has been here for 5 which is inaccurate. When I was 4 years 1 month old I didn't say I was 5.

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11-29-2012, 10:22 PM
  #39
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Now that Burke is just starting his 5th year, people will say he has been here for 5 which is inaccurate. When I was 4 years 1 month old I didn't say I was 5.
Yet when this time comes next year he will be evaluated for 5 years of work, because 5 full years would have passed.

So if logic suggests he will be evaluated for 5 years on Nov 29th, 2013 then he must be in year 5 now.

Its best to judge a GM based on NHL seasons, rather than calender years, where there are results at the conclusion of each to determine the teams performance by.

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Last edited by Mess: 11-29-2012 at 10:32 PM.
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Old
11-29-2012, 10:30 PM
  #40
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Yet when this time comes next year he will be evaluated for 5 years of work, because 5 full years would have passed.

So if logic suggests he will be evaluated for 5 years on Nov 29th, 2013 then he must be in year 5 now.
I agree, he is IN year 5 now.

But people will say he has been here for 5 years starting tomorrow which is inaccurate.

Also by the looks of it at this time next year there can be a strong case for him still only having been here for 4 due to the lockout. Saying how he has been here for 4 is already kind of pushing it since the lockout started in September but he was hired in November.

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11-29-2012, 10:51 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Grant View Post
Now that Burke is just starting his 5th year, people will say he has been here for 5 which is inaccurate. When I was 4 years 1 month old I didn't say I was 5.
LMAO

This will get trotted out with every "10th in goals then 10th in goals now"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Yet when this time comes next year he will be evaluated for 5 years of work, because 5 full years would have passed.

So if logic suggests he will be evaluated for 5 years on Nov 29th, 2013 then he must be in year 5 now.

Its best to judge a GM based on NHL seasons, rather than calender years, where there are results at the conclusion of each to determine the teams performance by.
He can't work during the lockout. No matter how you try you can't spin it that he's had 4yrs to make changes. He hasn't.

Trying to now jump to 5 yrs is just sad.

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11-30-2012, 02:32 AM
  #42
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Wow I never realized Burke's career numbers were an abysmal .467? Serious question.. Why is he so highly touted again? You would think to be highly touted you would need at least an above .500 record regardless if you've one cup in 16 seasons or not. Not trying to stir the pot, I'm just surprised as I've never looked into Burkes record before because I always thought it was good. Kind of a wake up call for me.

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11-30-2012, 02:36 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by WeWantACup View Post
Here is some of our thoughts on the current state of the Leafs with Burke at the helm. Episode 9 called 1967

https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/...rs/id577173646 judging on this tread so far this may not be our most popular show.

Is there anyway to listen to that without iTunes? Sorry I refuse to use any apple software or devices.

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11-30-2012, 02:52 AM
  #44
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Wow I never realized Burke's career numbers were an abysmal .467? Serious question.. Why is he so highly touted again? You would think to be highly touted you would need at least an above .500 record regardless if you've one cup in 16 seasons or not. Not trying to stir the pot, I'm just surprised as I've never looked into Burkes record before because I always thought it was good. Kind of a wake up call for me.
because he's the GM of the leafs

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11-30-2012, 03:00 AM
  #45
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People have different opinions about Burke... but opinions overall don't really amount to anything.

Based on the facts Burke has been a failure. A humiliating and disgraceful failure.

It's been four years.

The team he took over was 10th in goals for. Last years team 10th in goals for.
The team he took over was 30th in goals against. Last years team was 29th in goals against.
The team he took over finished 7th last. Last years team finished 5th last.
The Marlies team he took over had almost 15 extra points in the regular season and won precisely one less game in the playoffs than last years marlies.
The Leafs prospects are currently ranked worse by both the Hockey News and HF than the team the took over.

Those are the FACTS.
It takes rhetoric and spin to counter those facts.
Many leaf fans resort to the rhetoric and spin (as opposed to accepting the facts) because they "think he's funny during media interviews".

I personally form my opinion based on facts, not whether I think someone is funny during an interview.
Having a superior intellect than most posters allows me to assess information based on factual and statistical analysis, as opposed to altering reality with spin and rhetoric to form an opinion based on bias.

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11-30-2012, 03:04 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post

Based on the facts Burke has been a failure. A humiliating and disgraceful failure.
so predictable dude. I knew as soon as I saw your name that youd have some outlandish trash talking write up. I literally spat out when I read your post.

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Old
11-30-2012, 05:44 AM
  #47
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Well then, Happy Anniversary to Burke and glad you're still here.

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Old
11-30-2012, 06:28 AM
  #48
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2009, 2010, 2011 & 2012 = 4 entry drafts, 4 trade deadlines, 4 UFA seasons.

So this current lockout season in progress would be his 5th season as Leafs GM.
So you believe Burke wouldn't have done any other trades before the start of the season?


Last edited by 4evaBlue: 11-30-2012 at 06:34 AM.
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Old
11-30-2012, 08:14 AM
  #49
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I hope Burke doesn’t get fired. There isn't a better available GM out there. What’s the average shelf life of a GM? I personally do not think that these 4 years, (with the cupboard empty in the first two) should completely define his time with the leafs. I'd give him two more full seasons in order to make a serious judgment on him.

The leafs had a terrible farm team and a terrible hockey team when Burke got here. He has built the roster to a point that with a couple of additions can jump into contention. He has stocked a young farm team that has the ability to compete for championships. Burke is building for the present and the future. He’s not willing to sacrifice our future for a few seasons in the spot light. This is a GM that is looking to create an organization that is first class and a desired destination for any player.

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Old
11-30-2012, 08:43 AM
  #50
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Oh that was today?

Could've sworn people have been trying to tell me Burkes been here for 4 years for almost 2 years now.
.........and don't forget responsible for 45 years of futility



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But he has been here for 4 years..
no sweat it's just Leafs Math

it's all the rage

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