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Prospects Discuss hockey prospects from all over the world and the NHL Draft.

team with the best D prospect.

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Old
11-29-2012, 01:13 PM
  #26
7even
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreGore View Post
I admit that I am surprised with the love the Leafs are getting. Gardiner is not a prospect, which makes the list weaker.

Reilly is a great prospect, but after him there is no single guy that really stands out as a very good prospect. Teams would be happy to have the depth that Toronto has though.

I certainly would put them in the 7-11 ranking easily enough.
I don't particularly disagree, but I'm seeing names like Rundblad, Savard, Blum, and Ellis tossed around, guys with solid NHL stints. Mind you, none of them have played as much as Gardiner at the NHL level, but 30 odd games seems like somewhat of an arbitrary cutoff for what is and isn't a prospect.

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11-29-2012, 01:17 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7even View Post
I don't particularly disagree, but I'm seeing names like Rundblad, Savard, Blum, and Ellis tossed around, guys with solid NHL stints. Mind you, none of them have played as much as Gardiner at the NHL level, but 30 odd games seems like somewhat of an arbitrary cutoff for what is and isn't a prospect.
Personally, I go by if guys solidified their spot in the NHL last season or not. Gardiner did, Despres seems to have. Elliott, Blum, Ellis, Rundblad, etc did not.

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11-29-2012, 01:23 PM
  #28
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Columbus' defense is Springfield is strong.

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Old
11-29-2012, 01:29 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Personally, I go by if guys solidified their spot in the NHL last season or not. Gardiner did, Despres seems to have. Elliott, Blum, Ellis, Rundblad, etc did not.
I'd probably go the same way. If there were an NHL season right now, Gardiner is almost definitely pencilled in on the Leafs roster. Ergo, not technically a prospect. I don't like how qualitative it is, but I suppose gauging player development is somewhat of a qualitative business haha.

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Old
11-29-2012, 01:48 PM
  #30
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pens are getting a lot of love which consider where they have been drafting is suprising I thought oilers would win this followed by jackets

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Old
11-29-2012, 01:51 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
pens are getting a lot of love which consider where they have been drafting is suprising I thought oilers would win this followed by jackets
Not all that surprising when you consider in the last four drafts they have used four first rounders and two second rounders on defensemen.

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Old
11-29-2012, 01:53 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
pens are getting a lot of love which consider where they have been drafting is suprising I thought oilers would win this followed by jackets
The Pens have been drafting mostly D, got some through Staal trade too.

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Old
11-29-2012, 02:06 PM
  #33
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The Pens have spent the last 3-4 years drafting and acquiring defensive prospects just to own this thread.

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Old
11-29-2012, 02:09 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
pens are getting a lot of love which consider where they have been drafting is suprising I thought oilers would win this followed by jackets
They had the 8th overall pick this year. Albeit through trade, thats still a good position.

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Old
11-29-2012, 02:12 PM
  #35
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It's the Pens hands down. I hate the Pens and it hurts me to say it. Toronto and the Isles prospects have a lot to prove before I start giving them credit.

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11-29-2012, 05:23 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kulemon View Post
Toronto:

Rielly 1-2D
Gardiner 1-2D
Finn 2-4D
Percy 3-4D
Blacker 3-4D
Holzer 4-5D
Granberg 5-6D
etc.
People got to stop posting every D prospect they have. Every team has guys like Blacker, Holzer, Granberg, Musil, Gernat.

History shows that of those bottom 5 players you post only one will reach potential and 1 may stick in the NHL as a 6-7th defenseman.

I look at high end prospects as the biggest factor. TML are strong with Rielly/Gardiner

Pitt is strong with Morrow/Matta/Despres
Edmonton is strong with Klefbom/Schultz
CBJ is strong with Murray/Erixon
Minny has Brodin/Dumba
PHX Gormley/Rundblad

But those guys with 4-5-6 upside will likely not make it


Last edited by topchowda: 11-29-2012 at 05:36 PM.
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Old
11-29-2012, 05:46 PM
  #37
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Montreal.

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Old
11-29-2012, 05:51 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
I think either Toronto is being overrated here, or the Isles are being underrated.

If anything the Isles top-5 of Reinhart, Donovan, Mayfield, deHaan and Pokka is at the same level, if not slightly ahead of that Toronto top-5.

Not to mention outside of the top-5, guys like Pelech, Kichton and Pedan are better than any 3 other prospects Toronto can throw out there.

I'd understand if Toronto had another guy with elite potential, but they have the same amount of those guys as NYI: 1.
The Isles are certainly being underrated. It was just a complete oversight on my part. I'd definitely put them in the same tier as Toronto.

I don't know if I'd say that they are slightly ahead of the Toronto top-5. Personally I prefer the Leafs over the Isles, but a case could most definitely be made either way.

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Old
11-30-2012, 02:56 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallz View Post
Saying a young D shouldn't be included in this just because he's already played his rookie season is pretty stupid in my opinion

Who cares who has the best d prospects - the better question is who has the best young D-core moving forward because then you can include a Gardiner, McNabb, Ellis, Josi, etc.
Wherever you draw the line, there will be players excluded which make that definition a bit arbitrary. For example, Gardiner is not a prospect, and is the same age as Erik Karlsson and Alex Pietrangelo. If we bend the line so Leafs fans can include Gardiner, why not for all those blueliners from the 2008 draft?


Last edited by Hossa: 11-30-2012 at 03:02 AM.
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Old
11-30-2012, 02:58 AM
  #40
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Pittsburgh, followed by Edmonton or Minnesota.

I'm not including guys who aren't prospects anymore.

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Old
11-30-2012, 04:39 AM
  #41
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I don't know if we're the best, but I'm surprised Florida hasn't even been mentioned with Gudbranson, Petrovic, Robak, Matheson (who is BC's #1 d man as a freshman already) and Bengtsson

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Old
11-30-2012, 05:29 AM
  #42
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IMO Anaheim needs more love. Even though they have lost some gems in Gardiner and Schultz, Lindholm and Vatanen are still good D prospects. Anaheim has a great record in drafting defensemen.

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Old
11-30-2012, 07:45 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flapanthersfan View Post
I don't know if we're the best, but I'm surprised Florida hasn't even been mentioned with Gudbranson, Petrovic, Robak, Matheson (who is BC's #1 d man as a freshman already) and Bengtsson
Gudbranson isn't a prospect to me anymore. He has his spot on the team, especially with Garrison leaving. So unless he pulls a Del Zotto and gets demoted, he's just developing in the NHL for the next couple years and jumps from Prospect to the next level (young defenders with potential? whatever we're calling that, my mind is drawing a blank).

Quote:
Originally Posted by heksagon View Post
IMO Anaheim needs more love. Even though they have lost some gems in Gardiner and Schultz, Lindholm and Vatanen are still good D prospects. Anaheim has a great record in drafting defensemen.
With one of the aforementioned two I'd say yes, but with only Lindholm and Vatanen I personally wouldn't take them until maybe ~15-ish on the depth charts. Defensive pools require depth to be the very best in my opinion.

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Old
11-30-2012, 08:13 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hossa View Post
Wherever you draw the line, there will be players excluded which make that definition a bit arbitrary. For example, Gardiner is not a prospect, and is the same age as Erik Karlsson and Alex Pietrangelo. If we bend the line so Leafs fans can include Gardiner, why not for all those blueliners from the 2008 draft?
Age ain't nothing but a number.

Prospect eligibility (for imaginary polls and rankings like this) should be based on games played. You can argue that number all day if you want.

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Old
11-30-2012, 10:25 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IHWR View Post
Age ain't nothing but a number.

Prospect eligibility (for imaginary polls and rankings like this) should be based on games played. You can argue that number all day if you want.
I'll start off arguing that because we know, for a fact, that defensemen take longer to develop than forwards the games played cut off for prospect defensemen should be higher than a forwards cut off. Goalies take even longer to develop than any other roster player so their games played cut off to be defined as a prospect should be higher than everyone else's (for example, how many people consider Cory Schneider a prospect - I do). Imo, Gardiner is still a prospect whereas a guy like Karl Alzner eclipsed prospect status with a 2nd complete NHL season in 2011/12

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Old
11-30-2012, 10:35 AM
  #46
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The remarkable thing about Pittsburgh is that there's barely any mention of guys like Strait, Bortuzzo, Samuelsson, all legit NHL prospects in their own right (albeit with lower ceilings).

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Old
11-30-2012, 10:41 AM
  #47
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Homer pick: Wild is top-5.

Brodin and Dumba are bluechip prospects. Scandella and Spurgeon are great developing young NHL Dmen. Maybe top-heavy, but Kampfer, Seeler, Draeger, and Gunnarson have good potential.

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Old
11-30-2012, 11:04 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
I'll start off arguing that because we know, for a fact, that defensemen take longer to develop than forwards the games played cut off for prospect defensemen should be higher than a forwards cut off. Goalies take even longer to develop than any other roster player so their games played cut off to be defined as a prospect should be higher than everyone else's (for example, how many people consider Cory Schneider a prospect - I do). Imo, Gardiner is still a prospect whereas a guy like Karl Alzner eclipsed prospect status with a 2nd complete NHL season in 2011/12
Does development = prospect to you? Because lots of young defenders are still developing but not prospects in my opinion and I'd wager a lot of other people's. Pietrangelo just played his 2nd full season, but would you have called him a prospect going into last season?

Is OEL still a prospect not having completed two full seasons yet? I would have labeled him one going into last season and would say he graduated mid-way through the season.

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Old
11-30-2012, 11:14 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by TS Quint View Post
It's the Pens hands down. I hate the Pens and it hurts me to say it. Toronto and the Isles prospects have a lot to prove before I start giving them credit.
Wait, so somehow the Pens prospects, who haven't made the NHL have somehow proven more than Leaf and Isles prospects?

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Old
11-30-2012, 11:23 AM
  #50
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Sorry guys...but big time homer vote for Edmonton.

They have 3 high end prospects that's looking more and more like 1/2nd pairing D (Schultz, Klef and Marincin), and several others (Gernat, Musil and Davidson) to name a few that are expected to play top 6 roles.

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