I admit that I am surprised with the love the Leafs are getting. Gardiner is not a prospect, which makes the list weaker.
Reilly is a great prospect, but after him there is no single guy that really stands out as a very good prospect. Teams would be happy to have the depth that Toronto has though.
I certainly would put them in the 7-11 ranking easily enough.
I don't particularly disagree, but I'm seeing names like Rundblad, Savard, Blum, and Ellis tossed around, guys with solid NHL stints. Mind you, none of them have played as much as Gardiner at the NHL level, but 30 odd games seems like somewhat of an arbitrary cutoff for what is and isn't a prospect.
I don't particularly disagree, but I'm seeing names like Rundblad, Savard, Blum, and Ellis tossed around, guys with solid NHL stints. Mind you, none of them have played as much as Gardiner at the NHL level, but 30 odd games seems like somewhat of an arbitrary cutoff for what is and isn't a prospect.
Personally, I go by if guys solidified their spot in the NHL last season or not. Gardiner did, Despres seems to have. Elliott, Blum, Ellis, Rundblad, etc did not.
Personally, I go by if guys solidified their spot in the NHL last season or not. Gardiner did, Despres seems to have. Elliott, Blum, Ellis, Rundblad, etc did not.
I'd probably go the same way. If there were an NHL season right now, Gardiner is almost definitely pencilled in on the Leafs roster. Ergo, not technically a prospect. I don't like how qualitative it is, but I suppose gauging player development is somewhat of a qualitative business haha.
It's the Pens hands down. I hate the Pens and it hurts me to say it. Toronto and the Isles prospects have a lot to prove before I start giving them credit.
Rielly 1-2D
Gardiner 1-2D
Finn 2-4D
Percy 3-4D
Blacker 3-4D
Holzer 4-5D
Granberg 5-6D
etc.
People got to stop posting every D prospect they have. Every team has guys like Blacker, Holzer, Granberg, Musil, Gernat.
History shows that of those bottom 5 players you post only one will reach potential and 1 may stick in the NHL as a 6-7th defenseman.
I look at high end prospects as the biggest factor. TML are strong with Rielly/Gardiner
Pitt is strong with Morrow/Matta/Despres
Edmonton is strong with Klefbom/Schultz
CBJ is strong with Murray/Erixon
Minny has Brodin/Dumba
PHX Gormley/Rundblad
But those guys with 4-5-6 upside will likely not make it
I think either Toronto is being overrated here, or the Isles are being underrated.
If anything the Isles top-5 of Reinhart, Donovan, Mayfield, deHaan and Pokka is at the same level, if not slightly ahead of that Toronto top-5.
Not to mention outside of the top-5, guys like Pelech, Kichton and Pedan are better than any 3 other prospects Toronto can throw out there.
I'd understand if Toronto had another guy with elite potential, but they have the same amount of those guys as NYI: 1.
The Isles are certainly being underrated. It was just a complete oversight on my part. I'd definitely put them in the same tier as Toronto.
I don't know if I'd say that they are slightly ahead of the Toronto top-5. Personally I prefer the Leafs over the Isles, but a case could most definitely be made either way.
Saying a young D shouldn't be included in this just because he's already played his rookie season is pretty stupid in my opinion
Who cares who has the best d prospects - the better question is who has the best young D-core moving forward because then you can include a Gardiner, McNabb, Ellis, Josi, etc.
Wherever you draw the line, there will be players excluded which make that definition a bit arbitrary. For example, Gardiner is not a prospect, and is the same age as Erik Karlsson and Alex Pietrangelo. If we bend the line so Leafs fans can include Gardiner, why not for all those blueliners from the 2008 draft?
I don't know if we're the best, but I'm surprised Florida hasn't even been mentioned with Gudbranson, Petrovic, Robak, Matheson (who is BC's #1 d man as a freshman already) and Bengtsson
IMO Anaheim needs more love. Even though they have lost some gems in Gardiner and Schultz, Lindholm and Vatanen are still good D prospects. Anaheim has a great record in drafting defensemen.
I don't know if we're the best, but I'm surprised Florida hasn't even been mentioned with Gudbranson, Petrovic, Robak, Matheson (who is BC's #1 d man as a freshman already) and Bengtsson
Gudbranson isn't a prospect to me anymore. He has his spot on the team, especially with Garrison leaving. So unless he pulls a Del Zotto and gets demoted, he's just developing in the NHL for the next couple years and jumps from Prospect to the next level (young defenders with potential? whatever we're calling that, my mind is drawing a blank).
Quote:
Originally Posted by heksagon
IMO Anaheim needs more love. Even though they have lost some gems in Gardiner and Schultz, Lindholm and Vatanen are still good D prospects. Anaheim has a great record in drafting defensemen.
With one of the aforementioned two I'd say yes, but with only Lindholm and Vatanen I personally wouldn't take them until maybe ~15-ish on the depth charts. Defensive pools require depth to be the very best in my opinion.
Wherever you draw the line, there will be players excluded which make that definition a bit arbitrary. For example, Gardiner is not a prospect, and is the same age as Erik Karlsson and Alex Pietrangelo. If we bend the line so Leafs fans can include Gardiner, why not for all those blueliners from the 2008 draft?
Age ain't nothing but a number.
Prospect eligibility (for imaginary polls and rankings like this) should be based on games played. You can argue that number all day if you want.
Prospect eligibility (for imaginary polls and rankings like this) should be based on games played. You can argue that number all day if you want.
I'll start off arguing that because we know, for a fact, that defensemen take longer to develop than forwards the games played cut off for prospect defensemen should be higher than a forwards cut off. Goalies take even longer to develop than any other roster player so their games played cut off to be defined as a prospect should be higher than everyone else's (for example, how many people consider Cory Schneider a prospect - I do). Imo, Gardiner is still a prospect whereas a guy like Karl Alzner eclipsed prospect status with a 2nd complete NHL season in 2011/12
The remarkable thing about Pittsburgh is that there's barely any mention of guys like Strait, Bortuzzo, Samuelsson, all legit NHL prospects in their own right (albeit with lower ceilings).
Brodin and Dumba are bluechip prospects. Scandella and Spurgeon are great developing young NHL Dmen. Maybe top-heavy, but Kampfer, Seeler, Draeger, and Gunnarson have good potential.
I'll start off arguing that because we know, for a fact, that defensemen take longer to develop than forwards the games played cut off for prospect defensemen should be higher than a forwards cut off. Goalies take even longer to develop than any other roster player so their games played cut off to be defined as a prospect should be higher than everyone else's (for example, how many people consider Cory Schneider a prospect - I do). Imo, Gardiner is still a prospect whereas a guy like Karl Alzner eclipsed prospect status with a 2nd complete NHL season in 2011/12
Does development = prospect to you? Because lots of young defenders are still developing but not prospects in my opinion and I'd wager a lot of other people's. Pietrangelo just played his 2nd full season, but would you have called him a prospect going into last season?
Is OEL still a prospect not having completed two full seasons yet? I would have labeled him one going into last season and would say he graduated mid-way through the season.
It's the Pens hands down. I hate the Pens and it hurts me to say it. Toronto and the Isles prospects have a lot to prove before I start giving them credit.
Wait, so somehow the Pens prospects, who haven't made the NHL have somehow proven more than Leaf and Isles prospects?
Sorry guys...but big time homer vote for Edmonton.
They have 3 high end prospects that's looking more and more like 1/2nd pairing D (Schultz, Klef and Marincin), and several others (Gernat, Musil and Davidson) to name a few that are expected to play top 6 roles.
