HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must use the RUMOR prefix in thread title. Proposals must contain the PROPOSAL prefix in the thread title.

Luongo thread continued...

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-29-2012, 09:25 PM
  #476
DougGilmour93
Registered User
 
DougGilmour93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,512
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverback91 View Post
if Burke wants nothing to do with cap circumvented deals then why even bother discussing a deal for Luongo?
Well, easliy. I'm the armchair GM. I would accept the deal under my terms. I just base my thought process on Burkes demeanor and history.

DougGilmour93 is offline  
Old
11-29-2012, 09:28 PM
  #477
DougGilmour93
Registered User
 
DougGilmour93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,512
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Co Ho View Post
Not really. Reasons being:

1) Gillis does not need to trade Luongo to Toronto. To assume they are the only team with interest would be ridiculous. Burke really needs a goaltender and the market is pretty bare right now. While the circumstances do make Luongo cheaper than he'd usually be, that does not mean that Burke holds any bargaining power.
2) Luongo is a very respectful and patient professional. He can wait for a deal to get done and knows it's in his best interest if he waits to see if any new teams arise in the deals throughout the season.
But one of my main arguements is that the writing was on the wall for Luongo and that he was going to be dealt. Alot of Nuck fans seem to be under the impression all would be "hunky dorey" if they just kept him.

DougGilmour93 is offline  
Old
11-29-2012, 09:30 PM
  #478
Bourne Endeavor
Moderator
HFBoards: Night's Watch
 
Bourne Endeavor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,661
vCash: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Co Ho View Post
Luongo said it was time to move on, Schneider just signed a new multi-year contract; the writing is on the wall, Luongo is on his way out. The fact that we'd sign and trade Schneider while Luongo has indicated that he wants out makes absolutely no sense.

Regardless of my perception of Schneider, it's highly doubtful he's moved so why even bother entertaining the idea?
He is being respectful in the event he is traded. I highly doubt Luongo would have any problems playing out his career with Vancouver. In fact, it could very well be invigorating, as it shows we have faith in him. Signing Schneider only prevents complications of offer sheets or the possibility of the CBA changing the rules.

While I see Luongo being dealt as more likely. There is nothing to suggest Schneider is not up for consideration.

Bourne Endeavor is offline  
Old
11-29-2012, 09:31 PM
  #479
Ched Brosky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,911
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Well, easliy. I'm the armchair GM. I would accept the deal under my terms. I just base my thought process on Burkes demeanor and history.
if its on your terms why would you be using Burkes demeanour exactly when his demeanour says he will have no part of Luongo's contract? (not going to say you use his history when his history shows he loves dealing picks especially 2nd and 3rds for lesser players)

you would accept it on your terms, but that doesn't mean our fans will follow your terms without getting something out of it

Ched Brosky is offline  
Old
11-29-2012, 09:37 PM
  #480
Co Ho*
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,367
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
But one of my main arguements is that the writing was on the wall for Luongo and that he was going to be dealt. Alot of Nuck fans seem to be under the impression all would be "hunky dorey" if they just kept him.

He'll be dealt, eventually. We can hang on to him for one more season and see if the market grows. I don't see many fans, if any, that believe we will keep him long term and deal Schneider. But it's realistic and plausible to hold on to him until we can get a better return due to other team's needs changing.

Co Ho* is offline  
Old
11-29-2012, 09:40 PM
  #481
Commander Clueless
Spazmatic Dan
 
Commander Clueless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Chatham, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,317
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
This is exactly what I'm talking about and it is a chicken little argument. You're arguing that the possibility, however slim, that Lu's contract comes back to bite you later is more important than the cap savings now, despite your team being in need of such a contract. If you had lots of cap room now, or a significant amount of money guaranteed going forward, your argument would make some sense. As your situation sits right now, it doesn't. Burke needs to improve the team and has limited cap space to do it. Even if you could fit Lu in @ 6.7m, it wouldn't leave any room to improve the team further. Lu's cap hit is a boon for your team, not the albatross Leaf fans would have us believe.
I'm not entirely sure you know what a chicken little argument is.

This isn't the sky falling, this is the case of a fan (me) being concerned with the length of Luongo's contract and saying that I would prefer a higher cap hit with a shorter term for reasons I mentioned earlier. It was purely hypothetical.

Fact is, after this "season" the Leafs actually do have a lot of money coming off the books. If you want to get technical, the Leafs don't currently have the space to fit $5.3 million either (depending on the size of the cap of course) so I'm not sure what argument you are trying to make. They will likely have to make space either way so how would making an extra $1.4M not hypothetically be better than having 10 years left on the contract? Especially for a team that likely will not be ready to compete for anything other than just a playoff spot until Luongo is in the twilight phase of his career (unless he pulls Timmy Thomas esque numbers at that age).

I understand that you and many of your Canuck brethren believe his contract to be amazing (and for the Canucks it probably is) but consider that there is absolutely no guarantee he will retire "on schedule" and every year he gets older the harder it is to move him. Myself and many fans outside of Vancouver see this as a concern. Put yourself in an acquiring team's shoes (especially a young team in a state of major flux) and tell me that its not a concern for you.

And again I'm willing to take the risk on Luongo but not for a lot of the prices being thrown around here. By your own admission Burke needs to make this a playoff team ASAP so moving key players from other areas (ala Lupul) also doesn't make sense, no?

Commander Clueless is offline  
Old
11-29-2012, 09:41 PM
  #482
DougGilmour93
Registered User
 
DougGilmour93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,512
vCash: 500
I'll just say this...


I enjoy talking hockey with you guys out there. Love the game and I love talking to intelligent folk out there, so, thank you.

Cheers

DougGilmour93 is offline  
Old
11-29-2012, 09:42 PM
  #483
Ched Brosky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,911
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
But one of my main arguements is that the writing was on the wall for Luongo and that he was going to be dealt. Alot of Nuck fans seem to be under the impression all would be "hunky dorey" if they just kept him.
we know eventually we have to deal Luongo or Schneider but the key word there is EVENTUALLY.

With the latest CBA proposals see the cap staying at where it is this season and then dropping, we have a whole year to work out the situation.

Whats better deal Luongo for MacArthur Kadri and a 2nd now when u can most likely get a much better deal at the deadline for Luongo, or just deal Luongo for Kadri and a 2nd at the draft when u absolutely have to get rid of one of the goalies contracts?

you get a years more service from Luongo which is worth more to us than a year of MacArthur. Thats worst case scenario too. Who knows maybe he pulls a Thomas and his value skyrockets compared to what other fans have been offering. Very possible it could happen considering a season before he was the runner up to the Vezina and this past season he was the best goalie statistically saving the 1st shot.

Also I'll say this... I noticed some Leafs fans saying they would rather have him at 6.75M cap hit and a 3-5 year deal, but if that was the case his cap hit would be 7M+. Rinne (best comparable) just recently signed a 7 year 7M per contract, Luongo would get at least that on the open market on a shorter term.
Rinne is 3 years younger so Luongo would use him as a comparable asking for 7M per over 4 years which would also take him to 37.

Would u want Luongo at 7M per over 4 years or 5.33 over 10 years (technically 7 maybe 6 years if his play declines) I take the almost 2M in cap savings and the extra 2-3 years he would definitely play.

worst case scenario even if he plays out the 10 years and his play declines to the point he is a backup in the 8-10 years, trade or waive him. Florida/NYI/Columbus/Colorado/Nashville/Phoenix etc would love having a 1M backup eating 5.333M cap space, Those teams every season barely reach the cap floor, and they do it by purposely over-paying players.

Look at Florida last off-season, they basically signed over half their roster and over-paid each and everyone of those guys just to reach the cap floor. They also took on Brian Campbell as a cap dump.

you don't think these kind of teams will exist in 8 years from now especially with bettman in-charge and beng hell bent on expanding hockey into non hockey markets in the States?


Last edited by Ched Brosky: 11-29-2012 at 09:59 PM.
Ched Brosky is offline  
Old
11-30-2012, 02:23 AM
  #484
Back in 94
In Gillis I trust
 
Back in 94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,783
vCash: 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by BayStBullies View Post
It's rare for the public to know what is available for trade; unless a player completely tells the media that they would be open to being moved. That doesn't happen often; as most GMs don't like players that completely shows all their cards.
I don't know if I would say it's rare. A lot of the trades that happen are somewhat known before they actually do go through. Names are always thrown around on message boards and trade sites, sure it's usually just speculation but a lot of the times the names being thrown around do get traded.

Anyways back to my main point, Luongo is the best goalie on the market right now for TO.

Back in 94 is offline  
Old
11-30-2012, 02:45 AM
  #485
Scurr
Registered User
 
Scurr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Whalley
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,077
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spasmatic Dan View Post
I'm not entirely sure you know what a chicken little argument is.
You're making a big deal out of something that isn't likely to happen and isn't that big a deal if it does happen. Maybe you're on the hook for 5.3m against the cap in 4 or 5 years because Lu hangs on a year too long. That isn't a big deal and will very likely be less of a deal against the cap in 4 or 5 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spasmatic Dan View Post
And again I'm willing to take the risk on Luongo
What's the worst that can happen?


Last edited by Scurr: 11-30-2012 at 02:50 AM.
Scurr is offline  
Old
11-30-2012, 05:27 AM
  #486
DKQ
Generic User Title
 
DKQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Press Box
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,129
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
What's the worst that can happen?
See: DiPietro, Rick; Bryzgalov, Ilya; Huet, Cristobal

DKQ is offline  
Old
11-30-2012, 06:18 AM
  #487
Liferleafer
Bring on Stome-afin!
 
Liferleafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 13,055
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Umm, if you paid attention to Burke at all you'd know he's stated that on numerous occasions. NUMEROUS. He hates it (cap circumvention)
I don't want to go against one of my bretheren...but the fact that Burke is CLEARLY interested in Luongo kind of negates this arguement.

Liferleafer is offline  
Old
11-30-2012, 06:22 AM
  #488
Liferleafer
Bring on Stome-afin!
 
Liferleafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 13,055
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverback91 View Post
Looking at the history of trades, a 1st will definitely be involved. Off the top of my head these guys returned at least a 1st round pick in the past year or 2.

Rick Nash
Jordan Staal
Paul Gaustad
Jeff Carter x2
Kyle Quincey
Semyon Varlamov
Troy Brouwer
Brent Burns

Luongo is definitely on par with these guys and worth more than some (Gaustad/Quincey/Varlamov/Brouwer)

not to mention Ben Bishop (UFA in a couple months) returned a 2nd round pick!

Are you seriously telling me the difference between a soon to be UFA Ben Bishop and Roberto Luongo even with his contract is Tyler freaking Bozak?!? (looking at u ACC)
In all fairness....95% of those deals were made by teams that were actually playoff calibre teams. A little more risky for a team like TO.

Liferleafer is offline  
Old
11-30-2012, 06:38 AM
  #489
StringerBell
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 10,000
vCash: 500
Colorado traded an unprotected 1st+ for Varlamov after finishing 29th in the league. Columbus and Carolina weren't exactly lighting the world on fire either when they traded their 8th overalls for Carter and Staal, respectively. So it's 2/3rds, not 9/10ths.

A first is standard procedure in these types of deals, regardless of how bad the team trading it is. Props to you though for not baulking at its inclusion.

StringerBell is offline  
Old
11-30-2012, 06:45 AM
  #490
palindrom
Registered User
 
palindrom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,148
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
Colorado traded an unprotected 1st+ for Varlamov after finishing 29th in the league. Columbus and Carolina weren't exactly lighting the world on fire either when they traded their 8th overalls for Carter and Staal, respectively. So it's 2/3rds, not 9/10ths.

A first is standard procedure in these types of deals, regardless of how bad the team trading it is. Props to you though for not baulking at its inclusion.
So why Luongo himself wasn't traded for a 1st the last two time he was traded ?

Come on, this is not a standard procedure, its only common.

do you need a list of players who wasn't traded for a 1st ?

The standard procedure (50% of the trade involving a goalie) is another goalie coming back.

palindrom is offline  
Old
11-30-2012, 06:57 AM
  #491
NYVanfan
Registered User
 
NYVanfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,207
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by DropkickQuinn View Post
See: DiPietro, Rick; Bryzgalov, Ilya; Huet, Cristobal
Any of those guys have 700+ nhl games at .920 sv%?

NYVanfan is offline  
Old
11-30-2012, 06:59 AM
  #492
NYVanfan
Registered User
 
NYVanfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,207
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
In all fairness....95% of those deals were made by teams that were actually playoff calibre teams. A little more risky for a team like TO.
And also in fairness, many of those were deadline deals...
Noones paying a first for Gaustad or Quincey in the Fall

NYVanfan is offline  
Old
11-30-2012, 07:15 AM
  #493
palindrom
Registered User
 
palindrom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,148
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYVanfan View Post
Any of those guys have 700+ nhl games at .920 sv%?
Does Luongo have 700+ nhl games at .920 sv% ?

palindrom is offline  
Old
11-30-2012, 07:34 AM
  #494
CoolburnIsGone
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,072
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
Does Luongo have 700+ nhl games at .920 sv% ?
Actually his career regular season numbers are 727 GP and a .919 sv% so yeah kinda.

CoolburnIsGone is offline  
Old
11-30-2012, 09:07 AM
  #495
Fogelhund
Registered User
 
Fogelhund's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,435
vCash: 500
Interesting to note that it is mostly Vancouver fans discussing this still. It tells you who is more desperate to get a deal done here.

I'm not even close to being interested to any of the deals proposed in the last two pages, the first is not going to happen at this stage. These are all deals that actually are a step back for Toronto, we just can't afford them RIGHT now. I agree it might make us slightly better now, but the big long-term picture needs to be taken into context. I might consider a 2014 first, and a deal in Summer of 2013, depending on how the draft and UFA goes for us.

I would counter with something like MacArthur, One of Kadri/Colborne/Blacker (your pick), Lombardi and 2013 2nd.


Last edited by Fogelhund: 11-30-2012 at 09:16 AM.
Fogelhund is offline  
Old
11-30-2012, 09:20 AM
  #496
604
Registered User
 
604's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,129
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fogelhund View Post
Interesting to note that it is mostly Vancouver fans discussing this still. It tells you who is more desperate to get a deal done here.

I'm not even close to being interested to any of the deals proposed in the last two pages, the first is not going to happen at this stage. These are all deals that actually are a step back for Toronto, we just can't afford them RIGHT now. I agree it might make us slightly better now, but the big long-term picture needs to be taken into context. I might consider a 2014 first, and a deal in Summer of 2013, depending on how the draft and UFA goes for us.

I would counter with something like MacArthur, One of Kadri/Colborne/Blacker (your pick), Lombardi and 2013 2nd.
What?!? There's a lot of Canucks fans in a Luongo thread...WOW, that's shocking.

I'd say the Canucks fans are expected since it's about one of their players.

Now why are all the Leaf fans here? The answer should be pretty obvious.

That being said, if the deal doesn't have at least one of Reilly or your next 1st in there + something of value equivalent to Gardiner, I'm not all that interested as a Canucks fan. I also don't feel like the Canucks need to trade Luongo this offseason, next offseason would be fine too, even if his value goes down (because if its less than a 1st + Gardiner, his value isn't that high anyways).

604 is offline  
Old
11-30-2012, 09:26 AM
  #497
Co Ho*
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,367
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fogelhund View Post
Interesting to note that it is mostly Vancouver fans discussing this still. It tells you who is more desperate to get a deal done here.

I'm not even close to being interested to any of the deals proposed in the last two pages, the first is not going to happen at this stage. These are all deals that actually are a step back for Toronto, we just can't afford them RIGHT now. I agree it might make us slightly better now, but the big long-term picture needs to be taken into context. I might consider a 2014 first, and a deal in Summer of 2013, depending on how the draft and UFA goes for us.

I would counter with something like MacArthur, One of Kadri/Colborne/Blacker (your pick), Lombardi and 2013 2nd.

Because fans, and not general managers, are the ones that get deals done, right?
Also, there has been a pretty decent balance of Toronto and Vancouver fans over the last few pages, no clue what you are talking about.

Agree to disagree about what makes your team better though. An upgrade in goal with Luongo would be more than a "slight upgrade" IMO, but I think most Vancouver fans would be ok with a 2014 first round pick along with some decent prospects and a roster player that can contribute.

If you change your offer to a 2014 1st, remove MacArthur (redundant to our roster), add a roster player or B-level prospect (Frattin, Finn, or Bozak would be preferable) to counter the cap dump of Lombardi (or Connolly, whichever Toronto wants to get rid of), the deal would be good. This trade would help both teams a lot, and would not gut the Leaf's roster or prospect pool. Toronto's roster is barely being changed, retaining their best prospects, and being given breathing room to improve before the 1st is traded. Sounds like win-win to me.


Last edited by Co Ho*: 11-30-2012 at 09:32 AM.
Co Ho* is offline  
Old
11-30-2012, 09:28 AM
  #498
Fogelhund
Registered User
 
Fogelhund's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,435
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
What?!? There's a lot of Canucks fans in a Luongo thread...WOW, that's shocking.

I'd say the Canucks fans are expected since it's about one of their players.

Now why are all the Leaf fans here? The answer should be pretty obvious.
No, you completely missed the point. The trend in this thread is to fewer and fewer Leafs fans posting, as a percentage of the posts. It is becoming dominated by Vancouver fans. It is simply because most of the Toronto fans are tired of discussing a trade that most Vancouver fans are demanding a ridiculous ransom for.

Fogelhund is offline  
Old
11-30-2012, 09:37 AM
  #499
ginner classic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kitsilano
Posts: 7,504
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Co Ho View Post
He'll be dealt, eventually. We can hang on to him for one more season and see if the market grows. I don't see many fans, if any, that believe we will keep him long term and deal Schneider. But it's realistic and plausible to hold on to him until we can get a better return due to other team's needs changing.
You can get rid of the "if any" part of that sentence as you know that is just not true. I for one, violate that.

ginner classic is offline  
Old
11-30-2012, 09:39 AM
  #500
y2kcanucks
Cult of Personality
 
y2kcanucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 51,028
vCash: 696
Send a message via AIM to y2kcanucks
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
But one of my main arguements is that the writing was on the wall for Luongo and that he was going to be dealt. Alot of Nuck fans seem to be under the impression all would be "hunky dorey" if they just kept him.
Because Luongo has said he is fine staying?

__________________
http://www.vancitynitetours.com
y2kcanucks is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:00 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.