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Old
11-28-2012, 08:27 PM
  #26
Paradise
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Originally Posted by scelaton View Post
I appreciate the perspective. It does seem unlikely that such a successful big market team would make so little profit and ,no doubt, Jacobs is creative with the books.
On your suggestion, I googled Jeremy Jacobs. I love the Godfather reference, but, I gotta tell you, from what i read, he is one smart, successful, accomplished and philanthropic man. His bio reminds me a bit of Izzy Asper, who was an absolute bear as a businessman, but one of the most creative and philanthropic men in the history of this province. I would encourage people to actually research this and make up their own minds.

I don't mean to come across as an apologist for the owners. I just happen to think it is simplistic and damaging to the players' cause to villiify them.

Just to give a little back round on the Jacobs families start in business. The articles kind of repeat a lot of the same details, but they're still worth the read.


http://www.thecityedition.com/Pages/...st_072710.html

Quote:
The most notorious of the firm’s names, Emprise was set up as a holding company in 1961. The word is defined as “daring” or “prowess” in undertaking a venture. In1972, Sports Illustrated offered its own take on the name: “Enterprise and empire: Emprise.”

While Jacobs Brothers may have began unremarkably, its mark on the world of sports would be profound. Over time, Louis learned how to leverage concessions contracts on the back of interest-free loans to sports franchises in need. There was a lot of need back then, too.
and

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2...bombs/?page=1&

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Many things happened decades ago. According to the Las Vegas Review-Journal, money from Emprise and the corruption-ridden Teamsters permitted Morris B. "Moe" Dalitz, whom the newspaper identified as a former Cleveland bootlegger and racketeer, to take over the Stardust casino from Jake "The Barber" Factor, a friend of Al Capone.

I first ran across Emprise when I was bureau chief in Cleveland for Business Week from 1966 to 1973. In fact, my first interest in investigative financial reporting came when I was anonymously sent a prospectus for a public offering for a slot-machine maker named Bally Manufacturing. The Securities and Exchange Commission held up the offering for months because of a principal's alleged longtime relationship with Gerardo "Jerry" Catena, whom Demaris calls a "Genovese family underboss" and close friend of Lucky Luciano.

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11-28-2012, 08:32 PM
  #27
Gm0ney
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And now Chipman himself is saying the report is completely false:

Quote:
"I was disappointed to learn today of a report which claimed an exchange took place between an Alternate Governor of the Winnipeg Jets and Jeremy Jacobs of the Boston Bruins at a recent NHL Board of Governors meeting. I was present throughout all BOG proceedings and can categorically state that no such exchange between Mr. Jacobs and either one of our Alternate Governors - Patrick Phillips or Kevin Cheveldayoff - ever took place. Any suggestion otherwise is completely false."
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/spo...181266241.html

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11-28-2012, 08:37 PM
  #28
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as a bruins fan i am embarrassed to have jacobs as our owner

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Old
11-29-2012, 06:46 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Gm0ney View Post
And now Chipman himself is saying the report is completely false:



http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/spo...181266241.html
Yeah I read the article this morning. But in my mind you have to go with Chipman's word on this. He was actually in the room. The original blogger will stand by his original assertion, but unless he shares his source (which he won't) he is just blowing smoke.

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11-29-2012, 02:06 PM
  #30
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Who's Patrick Phillips?

I don't see him on the official team page. What's his role?

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11-29-2012, 08:28 PM
  #31
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Sorry But Chipmans Denial is as suspect as the Source for the story.

Of course he would deny it. He would have too. There would be a lot of pressure on him to retract.

I love how everyone pretends rich people can't be pretentious jerks to each other. I have met a billionaire. He was touring a facility and I was driving a truck delivering stock. He happened by dock and struck up a conversation. He was a real down-homey pleasant type, all "shucks boy I earned my money", Then he walked off. I happened to see him later in the lunch room by the office where i got paperwork finisihed. He wanted something from his assistant. Some kind of itenerary change. He screamed at the man full voiced, not because the assistant wasn't doing it but because he wasn't doing it quick enough. It wasn't just "Hurry Up" either it was atacking the man and belittling him in every concievable way. insulting his looks,brains,personality. sickening.It was so bad I felt like telling him off.

Anyone can be nice to the public or the press when in business. It's best policy. I learned when I was 12 working in my Father's store. It's how you treat the staff that counts. It's how you treat the people you don't have to be nice to that matters.

I could see either side of this story being true. Chipman's response or the original story.

My personal bet is that it happened. I have often imagined this very kind of scenario occuring. I have no proof or story just a gut feeling.

I feel that Bettman works for a very select group of owners. a group within the group. I think the way the ownership has changed in the NHL over the last couple of decades means that Bettman was kind of the "Lord High Marshall" to a lot of the owners. He was the important and constant contact. He was the man you had to see, and to please if you wanted ito the gang. He has parlayed that into a position of power and strength over many of the owners.


Last edited by Skidooboy: 11-29-2012 at 08:30 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old
11-29-2012, 09:20 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidooboy View Post
Sorry But Chipmans Denial is as suspect as the Source for the story.

Of course he would deny it. He would have too. There would be a lot of pressure on him to retract.

I love how everyone pretends rich people can't be pretentious jerks to each other. I have met a billionaire. He was touring a facility and I was driving a truck delivering stock. He happened by dock and struck up a conversation. He was a real down-homey pleasant type, all "shucks boy I earned my money", Then he walked off. I happened to see him later in the lunch room by the office where i got paperwork finisihed. He wanted something from his assistant. Some kind of itenerary change. He screamed at the man full voiced, not because the assistant wasn't doing it but because he wasn't doing it quick enough. It wasn't just "Hurry Up" either it was atacking the man and belittling him in every concievable way. insulting his looks,brains,personality. sickening.It was so bad I felt like telling him off.

Anyone can be nice to the public or the press when in business. It's best policy. I learned when I was 12 working in my Father's store. It's how you treat the staff that counts. It's how you treat the people you don't have to be nice to that matters.

I could see either side of this story being true. Chipman's response or the original story.

My personal bet is that it happened. I have often imagined this very kind of scenario occuring. I have no proof or story just a gut feeling.

I feel that Bettman works for a very select group of owners. a group within the group. I think the way the ownership has changed in the NHL over the last couple of decades means that Bettman was kind of the "Lord High Marshall" to a lot of the owners. He was the important and constant contact. He was the man you had to see, and to please if you wanted ito the gang. He has parlayed that into a position of power and strength over many of the owners.
I don't think it's nice, you callin' Mark Chipman a liar. Now, if you apologize, like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you didn't mean it... [ht: Clint Eastwood in A Fistful of Dollars]

Anyway, Chipman denied it unequivocally. And he's denied something that was framed by the reporter as "Here's a story [that I just made up]". If that's not good enough for you, then nothing ever will be, because you've apparently already made up your mind about Jacobs and Bettman (and billionaires?).

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Old
11-29-2012, 11:34 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Gm0ney View Post
And he's denied something that was framed by the reporter as "Here's a story [that I just made up]".
That's just the way he writes, and it's absolutely NOT tantamount to an admission that he "just made it up." It's still his name attached to it and still clearly presented as a piece of reporting, and he has stated that he stands by his reporting.

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11-30-2012, 07:51 AM
  #34
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I can decide for myself who to believe, thanks. In evaluating the credibility of the source and the credibility of the rebuttal, combined with the well-known nature of the character involved, plus a little bit of back story on the culture at the NHL BOG level, I chose to believe the reporter.

And why do you act like Jacobs' behaviour reflects poorly on the Jets? It reflects poorly on himself and the entire NHL BOG. Hence the strong denial by the sock puppet.

No need to be defensive.
Reporters come up with ******** ALL THE TIME. So believe the BS at your own risk.

As for the story, TNSE is not in a habit of outright lying to its customers which leads me to believe the story is BS. If there was truth to the story, TNSE would likely not release any statement.

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Old
11-30-2012, 08:29 AM
  #35
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As for the story, TNSE is not in a habit of outright lying to its customers which leads me to believe the story is BS. If there was truth to the story, TNSE would likely not release any statement.
I agree with this sentiment. I was swayed by the denial. It didn't strike me as your common place "the event mentioned did not occur and the owners remain united" BS. Maybe I'm a homer, but I don't believe it transpired as reported. Not to mention I don't really see who would have leaked it. It's bad for every ownership group of it happened and is made public.

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11-30-2012, 09:08 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gm0ney View Post
And now Chipman himself is saying the report is completely false:



http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/spo...181266241.html
If you read the denial carefully- "I was present throughout all BOG proceedings and can categorically state that no such exchange between Mr. Jacobs and either one of our Alternate Governors - Patrick Phillips or Kevin Cheveldayoff - ever took place"- there are all sorts of options. Maybe the exchange took place between Chipman and Jacobs, maybe it was outside the formal meeting. Where there's smoke there's fire and, although I'm more inclined to believe Mr Chipman, some "bad" things must go on in that room.

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11-30-2012, 09:35 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by moosehead81 View Post
If you read the denial carefully- "I was present throughout all BOG proceedings and can categorically state that no such exchange between Mr. Jacobs and either one of our Alternate Governors - Patrick Phillips or Kevin Cheveldayoff - ever took place"- there are all sorts of options. Maybe the exchange took place between Chipman and Jacobs, maybe it was outside the formal meeting. Where there's smoke there's fire and, although I'm more inclined to believe Mr Chipman, some "bad" things must go on in that room.
I think the article stated it was a wpg Governor that wasnt Chipman though

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11-30-2012, 09:53 AM
  #38
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That's just the way he writes, and it's absolutely NOT tantamount to an admission that he "just made it up." It's still his name attached to it and still clearly presented as a piece of reporting, and he has stated that he stands by his reporting.
Well, if I were a reporter who wanted to make stuff up out of whole cloth, but present it as truth and protect myself against a libel case, I couldn't come up with a better way to frame things...

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11-30-2012, 11:07 AM
  #39
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Well, if I were a reporter who wanted to make stuff up out of whole cloth, but present it as truth and protect myself against a libel case, I couldn't come up with a better way to frame things...
Yep, Haggerty's business is all about "attracting eyeballs" and he has certainly succeeeded in this case. On HF boards alone, his allegation has attracted >9000 views in a couple of days. This, despite the fact that it is totally unsubstantiated and inconsistent with the Jets stable marketing situation. Not only that, but, unless real intimidation is occurring, WHO CARES whether there are differences of opinion, bluntly expressed, in the board room. Anyone who has actually been in one knows that this happens and anyone who understands Chipman knows that he can handle himself perfectly well, thank you.
Anyone remember Macbeth from high school.? Let's give Shakespeare the final word on this non-story.

" it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing."

(never thought you'd see a Shakespeare quote on a hockey board, did ya?

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Old
11-30-2012, 11:45 AM
  #40
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This seems to have real legs for what I personally consider a non story? If it happened so what, board rooms are not for the faint of heart.

Now to the actual story.......Mark "IS NOT" a Bettman cutsie wordsmith type that pulls the bait and switch to try to deflect. If this event happened and a rep for TNSE got set strait you would probably know by TNSE remaining silent on the topic or a statement from Mark Brown saying something like "We don't comment on closed door boardroom meetings". If Chipman personally stands up and refutes the story then that is good enough for me, not that I cared one way or the other to begin with.

JJ is a natural villain type a lightning rod so any story showing him as a bully is red meat for the discontented when little else is happening . :help

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11-30-2012, 12:18 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Gm0ney View Post
Well, if I were a reporter who wanted to make stuff up out of whole cloth, but present it as truth and protect myself against a libel case, I couldn't come up with a better way to frame things...
To put it delicately, that's not how it works. There's no magic anti-defamation incantation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scelaton
Not only that, but, unless real intimidation is occurring, WHO CARES whether there are differences of opinion, bluntly expressed, in the board room.
You're missing the point. The interest of the story isn't over exactly what was said or how it was said.

The interest in the story is getting some insight into who is running the table at the NHL in terms of this lockout, where differences of opinion may exist amongst the owners and how that all influences how these labour negotiations have developed.

This isn't the first report to suggest that some owners aren't pleased with the situation and that junior owners aren't given a ton of voice at NHL meetings; it won't be the last, but it's interesting to add them up.

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11-30-2012, 12:57 PM
  #42
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There's a word for a story that isn't true, but sounds like it ought to be true. I'll think of it 5 minutes after I type this I'm sure.

The original gave a very specific story - that a Jets governor (not Chipman) spoke up at a BOG meeting, and was told by Jacobs that they'd tell him when he could speak. Chipman denies this story.

Well enough. I believe Chipman when he says this incident didn't happen.

But from everything I know about the NHL owners, something like it has almost certainly happened. I'm sure the message has been passed down to Chipman and Co that they should just consider themselves lucky to be here at this point, and that new owners need to prove themselves. The league gives a lot of respect to the opinions of long-time owners, like Jacobs.

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11-30-2012, 01:26 PM
  #43
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There's a word for a story that isn't true, but sounds like it ought to be true. I'll think of it 5 minutes after I type this I'm sure.

The original gave a very specific story - that a Jets governor (not Chipman) spoke up at a BOG meeting, and was told by Jacobs that they'd tell him when he could speak. Chipman denies this story.

Well enough. I believe Chipman when he says this incident didn't happen.

But from everything I know about the NHL owners, something like it has almost certainly happened. I'm sure the message has been passed down to Chipman and Co that they should just consider themselves lucky to be here at this point, and that new owners need to prove themselves. The league gives a lot of respect to the opinions of long-time owners, like Jacobs.
I agree

At the end of the day whether it’s on the PA side, the NHL owners side, or most any group negotiation you are always going to have camps of power and influence within teams or at least that has been my experience. When I was much younger I was involved in 2 different union groups and behind closed doors during the meetings it was the same thing……there are always going to be the Alpha’s in every situation.

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11-30-2012, 01:47 PM
  #44
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I'm not saying I don't agree...but let's look at the other side of the coin here. Lets say it did happen(and even if it did...who cares.) what was Chipman supposed say? Any of those other statements are practically a statement of guilt. My question is, why do it take so long for Chipman to actually make a statement? Why hasn't Jacobs made one?(he may have...I just haven't heard it yet)

I think that to a certain degree, Chipman was instructed on what to say, and Jacobs was muzzled to a certain degree, to keep up an appearance of unity.

I wouldn't be surprised if it did happen, and it really just makes Jacobs look like a dick. Obviously people aren't going to agree. We know this. This isn't a mystery.

I just find it very fishy the way that this was handled. You have to know that both Chipman and Jacobs and Bettman have received calls about this...and it's only now that the "truth" comes out.

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11-30-2012, 02:44 PM
  #45
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Either way if it did or didn't happen...next time the Bruins visit will be the first time another teams owner gets some chants going

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11-30-2012, 03:02 PM
  #46
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Either way if it did or didn't happen...next time the Bruins visit will be the first time another teams owner gets some chants going

JAAAACCCCCOOOOOBBBSSSS... JAAAAACCCCCCCOOOOOBBBBBBSSSSS...


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Old
11-30-2012, 03:07 PM
  #47
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I'm not saying I don't agree...but let's look at the other side of the coin here. Lets say it did happen(and even if it did...who cares.) what was Chipman supposed say? Any of those other statements are practically a statement of guilt. My question is, why do it take so long for Chipman to actually make a statement? Why hasn't Jacobs made one?(he may have...I just haven't heard it yet)

I think that to a certain degree, Chipman was instructed on what to say, and Jacobs was muzzled to a certain degree, to keep up an appearance of unity.

I wouldn't be surprised if it did happen, and it really just makes Jacobs look like a dick. Obviously people aren't going to agree. We know this. This isn't a mystery.

I just find it very fishy the way that this was handled. You have to know that both Chipman and Jacobs and Bettman have received calls about this...and it's only now that the "truth" comes out.
Chipman made the statement the same day the story came up on here. My question is: why did he make a statement so quickly? Clearly it's evidence of Bettman and Jacobs telling whipping-boy NHL n00b Mark Chipman to quash the story ASAP! Here's a story: Thomson has to wash Jacobs' car every Saturday as punishment for speaking out of turn!

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11-30-2012, 03:11 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Gm0ney View Post
Chipman made the statement the same day the story came up on here. My question is: why did he make a statement so quickly? Clearly it's evidence of Bettman and Jacobs telling whipping-boy NHL n00b Mark Chipman to quash the story ASAP! Here's a story: Thomson has to wash Jacobs' car every Saturday as punishment for speaking out of turn!
Well there you have it. I didn't know it was the same day, changes my perspective. Either way, it could have happened, but it doesn't matter if it did or didn't.

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11-30-2012, 06:29 PM
  #49
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There is no integrity in the media anymore. How a story is "reported" entirely depends on the point of view of the reporter and the spin that is put on the story.

For example, would Nick Kypreos ever ask the NHLPA a hard question?

The days where the media just reported the facts are long gone. I can type pages and pages of incident where the MSM has intentionally mislead their audience.

Why are these so called bloggers not held to the same standards that we are on this board? If I posted something, I would have to give a source for it to be credible. Yet some blogger is not held to the same standard?

The first question I asked is, "How did this guy know what went on behind closed doors?"

Does it seem reasonable that owner or GM would leak this? Not likely.
Thats why I call BS on the story.

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11-30-2012, 06:55 PM
  #50
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My two cents as some one that followed the Bruins very closely for many many years before the Jets returned to Winnipeg and I had to re-evaluate my life.

Haggerty is a troll. He's in it for the clicks.

Which is not to say that it would strike me as unusual for Jacobs to say something like what Haggs 'reported'. It's pretty well established that Jacobs is a jerk, even when compared to his fellow professional sports owners brethren. In this lock out what is really coming through is his sense of entitlement: to his place at the head of the table; to his influential relationship with Bettman.

But for me Mark Chipman is the only person that's weighed in on this matter that also has a shred of credibility in my eyes.

It's obviously in Chipman's best interest for this thing to go away, so ya, there's a chance he's lying. But at the same time, you can't be blind to the fact that it's in Haggs best interest to keep this thing going as long as possible. If he can draw it out another day and increase his clicks by 10% by standing behind his story, of course he will. And anyone that things I'm being overly cynical about Haggerty should take the time to look at the 'stories' he's pushed in the past and the tactics he's used to push them.

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