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12'-13' Draft Thread: Drouin & Monahan are LR's pick, what are yours?

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11-30-2012, 10:04 AM
  #626
ErnieLeafs
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
You're kidding right? Ofcourse the WJC is a high profile event that scouts and GM's attend and rank highly in their player evaluation for the upcoming draft.

It is one important factor to a prospect's draft stock, just as regular season play, playoffs, and prospects games.

But to dismiss it so throughly as you have in this post, is truly ludicrous.

From your post, it infers you give it no credence at all.

BTW Just because TSN is sucessful in it's ratings for the tournament does not take away from the prospects play in the tournament. I assure you they all know this is an opportunity to make a case for themselves in the upcoming draft.
Someone popped a roophie in my tea..... Did we just agree on something!?!?

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11-30-2012, 10:04 AM
  #627
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
You're kidding right? Ofcourse the WJC is a high profile event that scouts and GM's attend and rank highly in their player evaluation for the upcoming draft.

It is one important factor to a prospect's draft stock, just as regular season play, playoffs, and prospects games.

But to dismiss it so throughly as you have in this post, is truly ludicrous.

From your post, it infers you give it no credence at all.

BTW Just because TSN is sucessful in it's ratings for the tournament does not take away from the prospects play in the tournament. I assure you they all know this is an opportunity to make a case for themselves in the upcoming draft.
Like Sebastian Collberg? Potential top 15 pick at the time? Had his coming out party last year with a great clutch performance? Where did he end up getting drafted? 33rd overall.

You are right though that I might be exaggerating slightly. It's not meaningless. I just think its vastly overhyped.

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11-30-2012, 10:06 AM
  #628
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Originally Posted by LeafDangler View Post
Like Sebastian Collberg? Potential top 15 pick at the time? Had his coming out party last year with a great clutch performance? Where did he end up getting drafted? 33rd overall.

You are right though that I might be exaggerating slightly. It's not meaningless. I just think its vastly overhyped.
You call being picked #32 a coming out party? He scored a shoot out goal. Maybe the tournament cemented his dropping out of the 1st rd.

Guess you never heard of a kid named Toews or Eberle.

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11-30-2012, 10:08 AM
  #629
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It is overhyped, because ratings dictate that it has to be, unfortunately.

When put in perspective, it's good, because we're used to watching these kids dominate on a night to night basis, as a lot of them are often the best player on the ice. This just evens the field considerably, by cutting out the fluff, and playing with/against high calibre talent.

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11-30-2012, 10:10 AM
  #630
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
You call being picked #32 a coming out party? He scored a shoot out goal. Maybe the tournament cemented his dropping out of the 1st rd.

Guess you never heard of a kid named Toews or Eberle.
Or Cody Hodgson or Andrew Coglianio or Justin Pogge. What's your point?

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11-30-2012, 10:12 AM
  #631
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
It is overhyped, because ratings dictate that it has to be, unfortunately.

When put in perspective, it's good, because we're used to watching these kids dominate on a night to night basis, as a lot of them are often the best player on the ice. This just evens the field considerably, by cutting out the fluff, and playing with/against high calibre talent.
You know what? I can agree with this. I just get tired of reading analysis where this tournament trumps everything else. Your opinion above is pretty reasonable though.

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11-30-2012, 10:18 AM
  #632
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Originally Posted by LeafDangler View Post
Or Cody Hodgson or Andrew Coglianio or Justin Pogge. What's your point?
In case you have a hard time reading, I only stated The WJC is one factor, an important one in evaluating talent, you inferred it was overrated.

Hodgson, Coglianio and Pogge also played well for their junior teams, I am curious do you disregard this too? If so just what method do you use in evaluating talent? A skills competition, youtube compilations?

The facts are they are all weighted, this is what I am saying so your dismissal of the biggest showcase for prospects and players already drafted is peculiar?

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11-30-2012, 10:20 AM
  #633
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Originally Posted by LeafDangler View Post
You know what? I can agree with this. I just get tired of reading analysis where this tournament trumps everything else. Your opinion above is pretty reasonable though.
I hate it too. Being a huge college football fan, it drives me insane when a guy has a great game against mediocre competition, and everyone starts calling for his Heisman candidacy. A lot more goes into being a great player than a small stretch of games, that's for sure.

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11-30-2012, 10:30 AM
  #634
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
If you attend one of these events (WJC in Buffalo, U-17 WC's in Windsor), there are a ton of scouts, and even GM's who make the trip to see these kids play. Scouts are making notes, discussing, etc.

Scouts aren't mystical creatures, like unicorns. They're average people, who are really approachable, and willing to talk hockey, usually. Try it sometime LD.
How would you know your looking at a scout? Laptop? Scout badge?

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11-30-2012, 10:34 AM
  #635
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How would you know your looking at a scout? Laptop? Scout badge?
Usually they either have laptop/notebook, and have a few more with the same materials around them. Often wearing team gear, and a lot of them have credential passes too.

We had two sitting a few seats down from us at the U-17's in Windsor last year, and my old man and I had a good chat with one about the Russian/American contingents.

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11-30-2012, 10:52 AM
  #636
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
You call being picked #32 a coming out party? He scored a shoot out goal. Maybe the tournament cemented his dropping out of the 1st rd.

Guess you never heard of a kid named Toews or Eberle.
It's a useful tool but it certainly shouldn't be the be all, end all judgement of a player's talent, potential and future trajectory.

I think that's what Dangler was trying to say (albeit really badly lol. No offense man).

I mean look at the Sedins. Burke is one record as saying that the WJC left him totally uninterested in either one, he was expecting more and just left thinking they didn't fit into Vancouver's plans. Clearly that changed, and he said as much.

So sometimes it can be a good indication, other times its not. There are a ton of examples of players who played amazingly and did nothing afterwards. There are equally as many who played amazingly and continued on in the NHL.

Point being judgement needs to be made. Sometimes a player is injured, or isn't getting used in the way that makes them effective, sometimes they get placed with players that make them look better than they are, and sometimes they just get hot at the right time. It's not a perfect tourney to judge a player but than which one is? I think that's the main point he was trying to make.

But I disagree with him that we should discount it.

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11-30-2012, 10:57 AM
  #637
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
Usually they either have laptop/notebook, and have a few more with the same materials around them. Often wearing team gear, and a lot of them have credential passes too.

We had two sitting a few seats down from us at the U-17's in Windsor last year, and my old man and I had a good chat with one about the Russian/American contingents.
Thanks. I was at the Canada - Slovakia WJC exhibition game in Hamilton a couple of years ago and was searching for scouts. I saw suits I didn't recognize in the suites, but didn't see anyone with laptops. I figured I'd spot a few, but I didn't. Maybe on the other side.

Hopefully the rumours are true about HAM getting an OHL team and I can spot them regularly scouting Conner McDavid!!

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11-30-2012, 11:03 AM
  #638
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
You call being picked #32 a coming out party? He scored a shoot out goal. Maybe the tournament cemented his dropping out of the 1st rd.

Guess you never heard of a kid named Toews or Eberle.
For every Jordan Eberle there's a Jack Campbell. The tournament's fun, but it's also a cool little lesson in why small sample sizes are dangerous.

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11-30-2012, 11:04 AM
  #639
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Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
It's a useful tool but it certainly shouldn't be the be all, end all judgement of a player's talent, potential and future trajectory.

I think that's what Dangler was trying to say (albeit really badly lol. No offense man).

I mean look at the Sedins. Burke is one record as saying that the WJC left him totally uninterested in either one, he was expecting more and just left thinking they didn't fit into Vancouver's plans. Clearly that changed, and he said as much.

So sometimes it can be a good indication, other times its not. There are a ton of examples of players who played amazingly and did nothing afterwards. There are equally as many who played amazingly and continued on in the NHL.

Point being judgement needs to be made. Sometimes a player is injured, or isn't getting used in the way that makes them effective, sometimes they get placed with players that make them look better than they are, and sometimes they just get hot at the right time. It's not a perfect tourney to judge a player but than which one is? I think that's the main point he was trying to make.

But I disagree with him that we should discount it.
For the better players, one's that are drafted high or are ranked high, it does hold a lot of significance. Again I am not saying it is the only factor, but it is an important one. You weight it in with regular season, playoff, and junior showcase games. Give you one example of the prospects game, the fight of Thrower and Wilson put Thrower on the map. All tourney's are showcases and players know this, thus they get up for these events.

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11-30-2012, 11:06 AM
  #640
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I always use the WJC to compare the skills of the best players vs other best players. So even though a player might have a bad game, Ill still be impressed with his skillset (i.e pulock in the subway series). The opposite is also true however. A player can have a great game and still not impress me (shinkaruk in the SSS). However I dont take success in the WJCs a an indicator of success in the nhl level.

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11-30-2012, 11:07 AM
  #641
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For every Jordan Eberle there's a Jack Campbell. The tournament's fun, but it's also a cool little lesson in why small sample sizes are dangerous.
I may agree with Goalies, but for the higher rated prospects, they usually shine or dissapoint. It's a part of the process. You see how a player performs under pressure, what beats inside them playing for their nation, besides the obvious playing against the best of your peer group.

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11-30-2012, 11:42 AM
  #642
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Kind of a cool video I found that Shinkaruk made himself a while ago. Kind of funny too. Must have been 14 or so when he made it.

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11-30-2012, 11:47 AM
  #643
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Kind of a cool video I found that Shinkaruk made himself a while ago. Kind of funny too. Must have been 14 or so when he made it.
Lol check out those chicken legs.

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11-30-2012, 12:55 PM
  #644
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Lol check out those chicken legs.
Hahah.

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11-30-2012, 01:25 PM
  #645
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You know what? I can agree with this. I just get tired of reading analysis where this tournament trumps everything else. Your opinion above is pretty reasonable though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
It is overhyped, because ratings dictate that it has to be, unfortunately.

When put in perspective, it's good, because we're used to watching these kids dominate on a night to night basis, as a lot of them are often the best player on the ice. This just evens the field considerably, by cutting out the fluff, and playing with/against high calibre talent.
Well if we watched the SSS we saw Rielly look pretty good but not dominant by any stretch of the imagination, while we hear he can be, often, against other WHL teams.

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11-30-2012, 01:52 PM
  #646
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Originally Posted by 7even View Post
For every Jordan Eberle there's a Jack Campbell. The tournament's fun, but it's also a cool little lesson in why small sample sizes are dangerous.
lol are you calling Campbell a bust before he even turns 21?

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11-30-2012, 02:08 PM
  #647
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lol are you calling Campbell a bust before he even turns 21?
Definitely the premature statement of the day.
Did he have a good go of things in the OHL? Certainly not.
He has, however, looked pretty excellent in the AHL at times this season and last.

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11-30-2012, 02:39 PM
  #648
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As a rule Goalies are late developers, I cite Tim Thomas, Cujo, Belfour, Hasek just off the top of my head. They usually take a few more years to develop than players.

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11-30-2012, 05:56 PM
  #649
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As a rule Goalies are late developers, I cite Tim Thomas, Cujo, Belfour, Hasek just off the top of my head. They usually take a few more years to develop than players.
They're also like pitchers in baseball, in a sense that they are almost completely guided by confidence and poise. Shake those, and a goalie can look busch league on any given night.

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11-30-2012, 08:39 PM
  #650
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Spencer Martin has faced 53 shots so far tonight lol..

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