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How about them Caps

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Old
11-29-2012, 06:58 PM
  #76
MessierII
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Originally Posted by Vladiator16 View Post
And you saying he is lacking passion and desire? Thats what his whole game is based on!!!
3 years ago maybe

He's lazy on the backcheck and in defensive zone, sulks when not given ice time.......that alone would be enough for me to keep C nowhere near this guy.

Nitpick away all you want. Your never going to win a cup with that guy as captain. Get back to me when I'm wrong.

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11-29-2012, 07:48 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
3 years ago maybe

He's lazy on the backcheck and in defensive zone, sulks when not given ice time.......that alone would be enough for me to keep C nowhere near this guy.

Nitpick away all you want. Your never going to win a cup with that guy as captain. Get back to me when I'm wrong.
Honestly it went away when they started playing hard core trap. From when BB took over until the end of the Montreal series they were probably the top team in the league in terms of passion/energy/excitement. They wanted the puck, wanted to score, and were full of passion/excitement after every goal. You could see the genuine enthusiasm after every single goal. They were like kids playing the game. They weren't playing because it was their job, they were playing because they loved it. And Ovi was the one that fueled everyones passion. Ever since then the team has looked like its only playing because its their job. It's not just Ovi, its the whole team that has lacked enthusiasm.

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11-29-2012, 07:53 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by caps4cup View Post
Honestly it went away when they started playing hard core trap. From when BB took over until the end of the Montreal series they were probably the top team in the league in terms of passion/energy/excitement. They wanted the puck, wanted to score, and were full of passion/excitement after every goal. You could see the genuine enthusiasm after every single goal. They were like kids playing the game. They weren't playing because it was their job, they were playing because they loved it. And Ovi was the one that fueled everyones passion. Ever since then the team has looked like its only playing because its their job. It's not just Ovi, its the whole team that has lacked enthusiasm.
Maybe the constant early round exits have something to do with it. I'd get disappointed if every year the sportswriters called us contenders and we never made it past the semifinals. This year was pretty forgettable too, this is their lowest finish in a while and they lost the division title to one of the worst playoff teams in a weaker division than the Northwest. Remember, the other year they won 55 games.

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11-29-2012, 08:03 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
Maybe the constant early round exits have something to do with it. I'd get disappointed if every year the sportswriters called us contenders and we never made it past the semifinals. This year was pretty forgettable too, this is their lowest finish in a while and they lost the division title to one of the worst playoff teams in a weaker division than the Northwest. Remember, the other year they won 55 games.
I'm saying they haven't played with anywhere near as much passion/enthusiasm the last 2 years, and I think it's due to them playing so defensive. It's like caging the beats. You're not gonna win playing against the strength of the team.

And regardless, last year's playoffs weren't too bad for the Caps. Beat the defending Champs, and almost beat the Rangers. Just couldn't score because they were playing so passive and defensive.

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11-30-2012, 01:16 AM
  #80
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This has turned into an Ovechkin bashfest. I think Ovechkin needs to get back to the player he was, but like I said, he isn't the only thing I'm concerned about for the Caps right now.

We had him for 2 years, and yes we did get to the SCF with him on our bench, and yes he was a legendary player, and the players had good things to say about him, but I don't know what to make of Adam Oates as head coach. Our PP was very bad under him for long stretches. There was a point mid season where we lost 4 games by only a goal not including empty netters, where we gave up a shorthanded goal. At a few points during the season we had scored more shorthanded goals than PP goals, and gave up more goals while we were on the PP, than goals while we were on the PK. This was happening almost every other game for a month/month and a half maybe.

After all of our losses this Summer(Parise, Ponikarovsky, Sykora, Larry Robinson on the bench) he's definitely the one I'll miss the least. I do wish you Caps fans luck with him though, and I'm not saying he'll definitely or even most likely fail. Just a little concerned that's all.

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11-30-2012, 09:57 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
3 years ago maybe

He's lazy on the backcheck and in defensive zone, sulks when not given ice time.......that alone would be enough for me to keep C nowhere near this guy.

Nitpick away all you want. Your never going to win a cup with that guy as captain. Get back to me when I'm wrong.
Im glad you have the Magic Ball... There were and are numerous players that deserve to win the Cup, but for one reason or another the cards didnt come up right... It happens, just look at Ray Bourque for example.
Now, i'm not saying the guy shouldn't improve on anything, but blaming Caps loses on him is beyond ridiculous... but go ahead keep barking at the wrong tree...
By the way if the Caps ever win with him as captain people like you will discredit his efforts anyway, i have no doubt about it.

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11-30-2012, 10:20 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Vladiator16 View Post
Im glad you have the Magic Ball... There were and are numerous players that deserve to win the Cup, but for one reason or another the cards didnt come up right... It happens, just look at Ray Bourque for example.
Now, i'm not saying the guy shouldn't improve on anything, but blaming Caps loses on him is beyond ridiculous... but go ahead keep barking at the wrong tree...
By the way if the Caps ever win with him as captain people like you will discredit his efforts anyway, i have no doubt about it.
No I won't. I've been playing and watching hockey all my life and captained a few teams myself. I've seen good leaders and bad leaders and Ovechkin himself can change. Look at how Thornton has come along. I think everyone can agree he's clearly on a downward spirals, it's up to him to turn it around but until he does he's going to have his critics.

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11-30-2012, 11:56 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
This has turned into an Ovechkin bashfest. I think Ovechkin needs to get back to the player he was, but like I said, he isn't the only thing I'm concerned about for the Caps right now.

We had him for 2 years, and yes we did get to the SCF with him on our bench, and yes he was a legendary player, and the players had good things to say about him, but I don't know what to make of Adam Oates as head coach. Our PP was very bad under him for long stretches. There was a point mid season where we lost 4 games by only a goal not including empty netters, where we gave up a shorthanded goal. At a few points during the season we had scored more shorthanded goals than PP goals, and gave up more goals while we were on the PP, than goals while we were on the PK. This was happening almost every other game for a month/month and a half maybe.

After all of our losses this Summer(Parise, Ponikarovsky, Sykora, Larry Robinson on the bench) he's definitely the one I'll miss the least. I do wish you Caps fans luck with him though, and I'm not saying he'll definitely or even most likely fail. Just a little concerned that's all.
This makes a lot of sense. I got to watch the Trainwreck of multiple coaches in Hershey at the beginning of the year and Oates does not seem like he will be a good head coach. Hershey's powerplay was horrendous and they did give up a few shorthanded goals to echo what you said. His systems didn't fit well with the Bears personnel so hopefully it translates better with the Caps. Hershey fans were at one point screaming at Oates saying things such as, "Your going to get fired before you even coach an NHL game", "Oates your systems suck", etc. I thought that skipping over John Cooper who has success at every level (Led Norfolk to a 25? game winning streak last year and won the Calder Cup) was a mistake and that Oates was brought in because he is an ex Cap

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11-30-2012, 03:34 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by hb11xchamps View Post
This makes a lot of sense. I got to watch the Trainwreck of multiple coaches in Hershey at the beginning of the year and Oates does not seem like he will be a good head coach. Hershey's powerplay was horrendous and they did give up a few shorthanded goals to echo what you said. His systems didn't fit well with the Bears personnel so hopefully it translates better with the Caps. Hershey fans were at one point screaming at Oates saying things such as, "Your going to get fired before you even coach an NHL game", "Oates your systems suck", etc. I thought that skipping over John Cooper who has success at every level (Led Norfolk to a 25? game winning streak last year and won the Calder Cup) was a mistake and that Oates was brought in because he is an ex Cap
Yeah I've noticed Hershey struggling a little just watching the standings(Not as bad as Albany team though) This could mean nothing, and I did have that in my mind looking at the Bears record, but I wasn't gonna bring it up. Is he their head coach right now? Or co head coach or something they were calling him?

The Devils have had a historically bad PP for years now, but Oates in his two years didn't make it better. Our PP was so bad in the SCF we had almost a full 5 on 3 one game, and a 4 minute double minor right after where nothing was happening. Someone took a penalty to wash it out, and I had never been so happy to see a PP end, because it was embarrassing. The only PP goal we could muster up in the SCF was when Quick was out of the net, and Parise beat him back. With how bad our PK was in almost every series minus the Flyers, our PP was really bad the last two rounds.

A lot of Devils fans joked that Oates showed the video of our PP goal from Kovalchuk against the Rangers in game 6 where virtually everyone on the team touched the puck before the goal was scored, and that alone got him hired. I'm not hoping the Caps fail with him at all just saying I don't trust him.

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11-30-2012, 03:49 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
Nitpick away all you want. Your never going to win a cup with that guy as captain. Get back to me when I'm wrong.
You can say the same about just about the Rangers and Callahan though.

...get back to me when I'm wrong.

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11-30-2012, 04:02 PM
  #86
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You can say the same about just about the Rangers and Callahan though.

...get back to me when I'm wrong.
How many presidents Trophy's have the rangers won lately?

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11-30-2012, 04:07 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
How many presidents Trophy's have the rangers won lately?
The Caps won one 2 years ago, Ovechkin scored at a 120 point pace, and they dominated teams. Yeah, they didn't make it past the 1st round, but that's because Halak was god-like. Regardless, the Caps 09-10 team was clearly better than last years NYR team (might as well just call them the NY Lundqvists).

So I guess Ovechkin is a better captain than Callahan by your logic?

Please stop posting stuff bashing Ovechkin as a captain when you clearly don't know much about the matter. And btw, if he's such a bad captain, please name me other teams in the NHL that have made it to the 2nd round 3 of the last 4 years? They're probably aren't all that many...

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11-30-2012, 05:01 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by caps4cup View Post
The Caps won one 2 years ago, Ovechkin scored at a 120 point pace, and they dominated teams. Yeah, they didn't make it past the 1st round, but that's because Halak was god-like. Regardless, the Caps 09-10 team was clearly better than last years NYR team (might as well just call them the NY Lundqvists).

So I guess Ovechkin is a better captain than Callahan by your logic?

Please stop posting stuff bashing Ovechkin as a captain when you clearly don't know much about the matter. And btw, if he's such a bad captain, please name me other teams in the NHL that have made it to the 2nd round 3 of the last 4 years? They're probably aren't all that many...
I've yet to mention judging any captain by regular season finishes so I'm not sure what your talking about. Yes the caps in 09-10 were better than last years NY team and like you said they lost in the first round. I do know a little bit about the matter. I know Ovechkin is lazy on the backcheck and in general in the defensive zone and that he sulks when not given ice time. That's about all I need to know when judging his leadership. His play falling off the map is further evidence.

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11-30-2012, 05:02 PM
  #89
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Montreal beat them by capitalizing on frustration and exposing the holes in both their style and defense. An "run 'n' gun" team will allow a significantly higher ratio of goals against, sometimes burning themselves but the lack of consistency is what did them in. Vancouver is not without comparison. "Run 'n' gun" simply has easily exploitable holes if you aren't consistent.
This is garbage. Washington severely outshot Montreal. They dominated them in scoring chances. They controlled and dictated the play completely. Montreal won because over the final 3 games, Halak posted a 0.977 save percentage.

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11-30-2012, 05:02 PM
  #90
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I've yet to mention judging any captain by regular season finishes so I'm not sure what your talking about. Yes the caps in 09-10 were better than last years NY team and like you said they lost in the first round. I do know a little bit about the matter. I know Ovechkin is lazy on the backcheck and in general in the defensive zone and that he sulks when not given ice time. That's about all I need to know when judging his leadership. His play falling off the map is further evidence.
You just did in reply to Halpysback...

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11-30-2012, 05:08 PM
  #91
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You just did in reply to Halpysback...
Not the same I insinuating the Rangers have yet to be considered the best team in the league like Washington has multiple times. Until this year the Rangers have never been favorites going in where as the caps have often.

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11-30-2012, 05:44 PM
  #92
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Not the same I insinuating the Rangers have yet to be considered the best team in the league like Washington has multiple times. Until this year the Rangers have never been favorites going in where as the caps have often.
Well if you go back and read in context, I'm sure why you'll understand why I thought so. My bad

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11-30-2012, 06:40 PM
  #93
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Well if you go back and read in context, I'm sure why you'll understand why I thought so. My bad
No worries. You've made some great points and I'm happy to agree to disagree. I hope Ovy gets back to form because when he is he's the most exciting player to watch on the planet.

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11-30-2012, 11:21 PM
  #94
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Yeah I've noticed Hershey struggling a little just watching the standings(Not as bad as Albany team though) This could mean nothing, and I did have that in my mind looking at the Bears record, but I wasn't gonna bring it up. Is he their head coach right now? Or co head coach or something they were calling him?

The Devils have had a historically bad PP for years now, but Oates in his two years didn't make it better. Our PP was so bad in the SCF we had almost a full 5 on 3 one game, and a 4 minute double minor right after where nothing was happening. Someone took a penalty to wash it out, and I had never been so happy to see a PP end, because it was embarrassing. The only PP goal we could muster up in the SCF was when Quick was out of the net, and Parise beat him back. With how bad our PK was in almost every series minus the Flyers, our PP was really bad the last two rounds.

A lot of Devils fans joked that Oates showed the video of our PP goal from Kovalchuk against the Rangers in game 6 where virtually everyone on the team touched the puck before the goal was scored, and that alone got him hired. I'm not hoping the Caps fail with him at all just saying I don't trust him.
Yeah Oates was named co head coach of Hershey and Washington also sent down Calle Johansson to help coach as well and the team had a rotation going where Johansson and Troy Mann (Hershey Assistant) would rotate games for the defensive pairings and Oates and Mark French (Hershey's Coach) would both be on the bench and would rotate who did the forward lines. Needless to say it did not work out and the Bears fans, myself included, were not happy and voiced their opinion loudly. They went on about a 5 or 6 game losing streak with their powerplay being complete crap and Oates and company were sent back to Washington and French and Mann took back control of the team. The Bears now have won 3 in a row and have looked a lot better so far. I remember telling my dad that it wouldn't matter if we got a powerplay because Oates' PP was horrendous and many fans around us agreed. Hopefully he can do better in Washington because their PP wasn't their strong point when Dale Hunter took over either.

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12-01-2012, 01:16 AM
  #95
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How many presidents Trophy's have the rangers won lately?
They just won the conference last year, but I guess that doesn't compare in any way shape or form to the gospel that is presidents trophy metric.

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12-01-2012, 12:41 PM
  #96
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They need to go back to all-out offense. Getting the Caps to play a defensive game is like getting a Habs fan to hug a Bruins fan. They have a 110-point scorer who is being held back by their coaching system. What's the point of having him if you're not going to use him properly? This player also should not be the captain. He's not a leader. He's like that rich kid on the Bantam team who got there because his dad knows people and demands ice time and to be able to play how he wants. Make Backstrom or Laich the captain.

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12-01-2012, 12:45 PM
  #97
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You can say the same about just about the Rangers and Callahan though.

...get back to me when I'm wrong.
Callahan is much different from Ovechkin. He back checks, plays great defense, contributes offensively, hits hard, and hustles every shift. Ovechkin doesn't back check, doesn't play good defense, and the only thing he does is hog the puck and hit hard trying to make the highlight reel. I'm not saying Callahan is better than Ovechkin as a player, but he has the much more complete game and is a better leader and captain.

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12-01-2012, 09:37 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
They need to go back to all-out offense. Getting the Caps to play a defensive game is like getting a Habs fan to hug a Bruins fan. They have a 110-point scorer who is being held back by their coaching system. What's the point of having him if you're not going to use him properly? This player also should not be the captain. He's not a leader. He's like that rich kid on the Bantam team who got there because his dad knows people and demands ice time and to be able to play how he wants. Make Backstrom or Laich the captain.
If Ovechkin adapted his game to a defensive and offensive style (two way player), he would still be great. Your scenario is very similar to a player named Yzerman who had to adapt a new stye to win Championships, instead of being an offensive juggernaut.

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12-02-2012, 11:32 AM
  #99
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A lot of luck.

And Ovechkin playing like the MVP version, not the fat, out of shape, disinterested version that has coasted for the last few seasons.

Health on the defensive end couldn't hurt either.

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12-02-2012, 12:22 PM
  #100
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If Ovechkin adapted his game to a defensive and offensive style (two way player), he would still be great. Your scenario is very similar to a player named Yzerman who had to adapt a new stye to win Championships, instead of being an offensive juggernaut.
Sounds like Kovalchuk when he came to NJ

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