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12-13' Prospects Thread Version XIII: The name is Cameranesi. Tony Cameranesi.

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Old
11-29-2012, 10:52 PM
  #676
leafsfuture
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Originally Posted by JacobimMugatu View Post
After seeing Murray play live, nothing special is not a very good description for him.
This.

He's not Erik Karlsson, and wont be, but he doesnt make mistakes... like at all. When he gets the puck he either puts it on the stick of a guy moving forward, or its safely out of his zone.

Murray doesnt make boneheaded plays, he almost never overcommits offensively (I believe he absolutely needs to rush more), and his defensive positioning and mobility is outstanding.

He basically defines what a defenceman is supposed to be.... in the world we live in, that is what I call special

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11-29-2012, 10:54 PM
  #677
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Do you have proof of this?
Murray is a very safe pick. He doesn't have the offensive of a Suter, or the physical presence of a Seabrook.
About as much proof as someone who is suggesting it is probable all teams had Yak at #1. It is also every bit as probable as this scenario. And good thing I said Impact and wasn't speaking of similar traits. Read before responding.

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11-29-2012, 11:00 PM
  #678
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I can't remember for sure but I seem to remember Bobby Mac with his scout interviews saying 19/20 scouts or something had Yakupov at #1. I don't remember it being 100% consensus as Yakupov was #1, just a very very very large majority.

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11-30-2012, 12:48 AM
  #679
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Originally Posted by leafsfuture View Post
This.

He's not Erik Karlsson, and wont be, but he doesnt make mistakes... like at all. When he gets the puck he either puts it on the stick of a guy moving forward, or its safely out of his zone.

Murray doesnt make boneheaded plays, he almost never overcommits offensively (I believe he absolutely needs to rush more), and his defensive positioning and mobility is outstanding.

He basically defines what a defenceman is supposed to be.... in the world we live in, that is what I call special
Honestly, I never understand why people say this about Murray. Whenever I have seen him play (World Jrs., WHC, Can vs Russia super series, Subway series) he makes tons of mistakes in his own end and have seen get burnt by players by being out of position. Was he not -5 in the Gold medal game and a direct cause of like 3 goals last world jrs.?

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11-30-2012, 12:51 AM
  #680
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Originally Posted by G51 K81 View Post
Honestly, I never understand why people say this about Murray. Whenever I have seen him play (World Jrs., WHC, Can vs Russia super series, Subway series) he makes tons of mistakes in his own end and have seen get burnt by players by being out of position. Was he not -5 in the Gold medal game and a direct cause of like 3 goals last world jrs.?
You mean the semi-finals where 2 pucks hit his stick and deflected in, and then he slid into the goalie on like the 3rd 2 on 1 where he was the only defenceman back??

It was a fluke game, where the team was completely absent for two and a half periods

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11-30-2012, 12:57 AM
  #681
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You mean the semi-finals where 2 pucks hit his stick and deflected in, and then he slid into the goalie on like the 3rd 2 on 1 where he was the only defenceman back??

It was a fluke game, where the team was completely absent for two and a half periods
That was just one example i was mentioning. Most recently in the Subway series he was really weak making outlet passes and he was caught a couple times sleeping, one leading to a breakaway.

To say he never makes mistakes is a huge stretch. It's just an HF board thing i guess.

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11-30-2012, 02:42 AM
  #682
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Originally Posted by G51 K81 View Post
That was just one example i was mentioning. Most recently in the Subway series he was really weak making outlet passes and he was caught a couple times sleeping, one leading to a breakaway.

To say he never makes mistakes is a huge stretch. It's just an HF board thing i guess.
I was at the Subway Super Series game he played in and he was unreal.

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11-30-2012, 02:57 AM
  #683
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Originally Posted by G51 K81 View Post
That was just one example i was mentioning. Most recently in the Subway series he was really weak making outlet passes and he was caught a couple times sleeping, one leading to a breakaway.

To say he never makes mistakes is a huge stretch. It's just an HF board thing i guess.
I'm not a big supporter of a defensive specialist bring selected in the top 3, better yet even the top 5. Schenn with size, and a mean streak was touted as the best defensive defenseman in his draft year (if I recall, or was it most physical?), regardless defense was supposed to be his strong point. Even if he becomes a good defensive defenseman (Murray that is) and his offensive game never really advances, then you have a 20-30 point average sized, not overly physical defenseman. A good comparison might be Dan Giardi? With an advancement in his offensive skills, a poor mans nick lidstrom?

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11-30-2012, 11:37 AM
  #684
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Recently came to my attention I may have an actual opportunity in the scouting industry, and I have been slowly trying to brush up on my prospect profiles... So I figure I am going to post a few of our guys, and then a few of other NHL prospects and get some review.

Who should I do guys? I see the storm the most so I will be doing a few Guelph guys, probably staying away from goalies tbh. Maybe a little one on the goalies.


For sures:
Matt Finn
Jamie Devane

Candidates:
Mika Zibanejad
Matt Frattin

Halp?

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11-30-2012, 12:00 PM
  #685
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yeah, I never quite understood the whole "Murray never makes mistakes" thing.

The few times I've watched him, he's made plenty of mistakes, most especially in terms of giving away the puck.

In general, he seems like a very passive player who's not comfortable taking control of the ice, and would much rather get rid of the puck quickly and let someone else deal with it.

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11-30-2012, 12:46 PM
  #686
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Originally Posted by zeke View Post
yeah, I never quite understood the whole "Murray never makes mistakes" thing.

The few times I've watched him, he's made plenty of mistakes, most especially in terms of giving away the puck.

In general, he seems like a very passive player who's not comfortable taking control of the ice, and would much rather get rid of the puck quickly and let someone else deal with it.
There are two very common stereotypes that deal with defenseman:

A) IF you don't score a lot of points, but you're a well known name, you don't make any mistakes at all.

B) IF you score a lot of points, you're automatically a terrible D in your own zone and take too many risks.

Truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

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11-30-2012, 12:50 PM
  #687
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Originally Posted by zeke View Post
yeah, I never quite understood the whole "Murray never makes mistakes" thing.

The few times I've watched him, he's made plenty of mistakes, most especially in terms of giving away the puck.

In general, he seems like a very passive player who's not comfortable taking control of the ice, and would much rather get rid of the puck quickly and let someone else deal with it.
I agree, saying that a player "does not make mistakes" is a boneheaded statement. Hockey is a game of mistakes and either minimizing them or taking advantage of them. Every player makes mistakes and to say otherwise is to place unfair expectations on them. If Murray were a Leaf's player I guarantee that after the novelty wore off and he plays a couple seasons for the Leafs, people around here would start poking holes in his defensive game.

I like Murray and think he is definitly among the best defensemen drafted last season but like Rielly's, his game is far from perfect. It will be interesting to see these two develop once they make their respective NHL teams.

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11-30-2012, 01:26 PM
  #688
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Originally Posted by Pi View Post
There are two very common stereotypes that deal with defenseman:

A) IF you don't score a lot of points, but you're a well known name, you don't make any mistakes at all.
have to wonder why a defenceman who doesn't score a lot of points, and makes as many mistakes as everyone else, is a well known name?

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11-30-2012, 01:28 PM
  #689
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Originally Posted by zeke View Post
yeah, I never quite understood the whole "Murray never makes mistakes" thing.

The few times I've watched him, he's made plenty of mistakes, most especially in terms of giving away the puck.

In general, he seems like a very passive player who's not comfortable taking control of the ice, and would much rather get rid of the puck quickly and let someone else deal with it.
the description of a player who cannot make his local aaa midget team. not an nhl draft pick.

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11-30-2012, 01:43 PM
  #690
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My mistake, a little hard to pick up on when I can't hear any vocal tone. They are very different players, and the only thing that separates them in my mind is that only months ago every team had Murray ahead of Rielly in their draft order's; if not all. If I saw both play without any previous input on either, I think it would be close.
I think the best way to describe the to is how I feel when they're on the ice...at least when both played for Canada.

Feel excitement when Rielly is on the ice and feel relaxation when Murray is on the ice. That says nothing negative about both players (I hope you don't read it as a negative thought)

Rielly is dynamic so a lot of what he does keeps you on the edge of your seat, especially when he rushes the puck. And his creativity jumps out at you and amazes you.

Murray is reliable. Makes you feel like the opponents offensive weapons aren't going to be effective on the shift he's out there. Yes he makes mistakes, but when he is on the ice, their is an organized structure in the defense where you have a mobile defence that rarely gets beat one on one and is able to close off and contain any offensive threats. Both are great in their own way. Just different.

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11-30-2012, 01:44 PM
  #691
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the description of a player who cannot make his local aaa midget team. not an nhl draft pick.
Reminds me of that fantastic draft pick - Barron Smith.

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11-30-2012, 03:44 PM
  #692
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Originally Posted by Atomos2 View Post
I think the best way to describe the to is how I feel when they're on the ice...at least when both played for Canada.

Feel excitement when Rielly is on the ice and feel relaxation when Murray is on the ice. That says nothing negative about both players (I hope you don't read it as a negative thought)

Rielly is dynamic so a lot of what he does keeps you on the edge of your seat, especially when he rushes the puck. And his creativity jumps out at you and amazes you.

Murray is reliable. Makes you feel like the opponents offensive weapons aren't going to be effective on the shift he's out there. Yes he makes mistakes, but when he is on the ice, their is an organized structure in the defense where you have a mobile defence that rarely gets beat one on one and is able to close off and contain any offensive threats. Both are great in their own way. Just different.
This is a good way of describing it. I personally would rather the Leafs had Murray over Rielly; but it's close.

Murray seems like he would be the perfect partner for Phaneuf. That top-pairing could be one of the best in the game (of course the same could be said of Rielly and Phaneuf, but I feel Murrays solid game would better suit Phaneuf). We've also got some dynamic d-men already like Phaneuf and Gardiner, and could really use an elite shut-down guy.

That being said, I absolutely love Rielly. He's the best prospect this organization has had in a very long time, and is going to be a treat to watch.

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11-30-2012, 04:30 PM
  #693
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This is a good way of describing it. I personally would rather the Leafs had Murray over Rielly; but it's close.

Murray seems like he would be the perfect partner for Phaneuf. That top-pairing could be one of the best in the game (of course the same could be said of Rielly and Phaneuf, but I feel Murrays solid game would better suit Phaneuf). We've also got some dynamic d-men already like Phaneuf and Gardiner, and could really use an elite shut-down guy.

That being said, I absolutely love Rielly. He's the best prospect this organization has had in a very long time, and is going to be a treat to watch.
So true. Massive glaring hole for the leafs defense.

personally, have always advocated a push for Victor Hedman. Not that he would be available, I just think he is a perfect fit.

Can play physical, can play positional, can play using his stick. Skates like the wind given his size. Shutdown with aplomb. Two way skills for sure.

Hedman - Phaneuf
Rielly - Finn / Blacker / Percy

Is an incredible top 4. I think Hedman is the perfect type of partner for Phaneuf, similar to how murray would be a great fit.

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11-30-2012, 04:30 PM
  #694
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Reminds me of that fantastic draft pick - Barron Smith.
Hey, don't write off Barron Smith, U of Alberta is known for cranking out solid NHLers.

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11-30-2012, 04:39 PM
  #695
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About as much proof as someone who is suggesting it is probable all teams had Yak at #1. It is also every bit as probable as this scenario. And good thing I said Impact and wasn't speaking of similar traits. Read before responding.
So no proof? That's what I thought.
And you compare Murray to guys like Suter and Seabrook in terms of impact but not similar traits. How can you have the same impact as someone but not possess a large part of their game that contributes to their overall impact on the ice?
No need for the last comment either.

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11-30-2012, 05:08 PM
  #696
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Hey, don't write off Barron Smith, U of Alberta is known for cranking out solid NHLers.
He's a pretty safe bet to write off.

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11-30-2012, 06:07 PM
  #697
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Hockey on tv tonight:

Sportsnet (Ontario, East, West, and Pacific)
Windsor Spitfires @ Kitchener Rangers

Rogers TV CH63 (Toronto Region)
Niagara Icedogs @ Mississauga Steelheads

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11-30-2012, 06:16 PM
  #698
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Well took Biggs all of about 3 minutes to score tonight. Pots a rebound in close. Randy Carlyle is in attendance.

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11-30-2012, 06:20 PM
  #699
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Hockey on tv tonight:

Sportsnet (Ontario, East, West, and Pacific)
Windsor Spitfires @ Kitchener Rangers

Rogers TV CH63 (Toronto Region)
Niagara Icedogs @ Mississauga Steelheads
Brampton vs Guelph on Rogers TV (depends on area)

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11-30-2012, 06:23 PM
  #700
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Knights vs Barrie on Rogers as well in the London area.

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