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I believe most people would agree with that. AP is a stud, and as good as Ebs is, I'd move him in a second for AP. I'd move any of the Oilers straight up for AP, except for RNH. #1 centres are just as rare as #1 D. Don't get me wrong, I think the value would be close, but Edmonton hasn't had a #1 centre since Doug Weight, and before that it was Messier.
Which mirrors the Blues. This of course is hypothetical, but if, and that's a huge, gigantic, humongous if, the Blues decided to move Petro, a center like RNH would probably be the target.
Berglund is at best a 2C, Eberle is a #1RW on most teams in the league and was a top 20 scorer last year. There is a big gap there in spite of the intangibles that Berglund brings.
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Berglund is at best a 2C, Eberle is a #1RW on most teams in the league and was a top 20 scorer last year. There is a big gap there in spite of the intangibles that Berglund brings.
I admit there is a gap between Berglund and Eberle but by no means is the gap greater than it is between Shattenkirk and Perty.
Eberle was 15th in league scoring and had the 11th best ppg average of all players that played 50+ games last season while only averaging 17:35 a game. There were only two players that averaged less ice time in the top 50. Seguin had 67 points(29th in the league) in 81 games while averaging 16:56 and Purcell had 65 points(40th in the league) while averaging 16:07.
Most of the players ahead of Eberle in points were averaging 2-4 minutes a night more than him. Was his shooting% high? Yes, but you have got to have something going for you if you can sustain that for an entire season. Eberle has a deadly shot and with more ice time, I'm sure he'll continue to be a 30+ goal scorer in the league.
Shots around the boards point above the circle usually go in 4-7% of the time.
Shots tight to the net and inside the circles are in the 12-20% range.
usually players take more peripheral shots. lending to a 10- 11% shooting%.
Watch eberle's 2010-2011 goals on youtube
Below the Face off dots and tight and central to the net when possible. There all in the 20% shooting range.
The gap between Eberle and Berglund is most definitely larger than the one between Shattenkirk and Petry.
Petry and Smid (sadly our only reliable defensemen last year) make an absolutely sick pairing. No way would I do this deal...
Last edited by franfrey*: 11-30-2012 at 07:02 PM.
Reason: qdp
I think i could see a guy like him with the Oilers
I think the Caps GM values Mike Green very highly, so any trade offer would pretty much have to be an overpayment. And with Green's recent injury history over the past few seasons, I don't see a team willing to over pay for him. Obviously some people might think Green is overrated and that I am overrating him, but before his first concussion (2 seasons ago?) I thought he was actually playing better defensively as well. Since he has came back from his concussion, I believe he’s been afraid to go into the corners to give or receive a hit. I’m hoping with Calle Johansson helping out with the defense, he can help Green become better defensively. Either way I think GMGM and the caps value Green so high, that they would want an overpayment to trade him away, and don’t see too many teams willing to do so.
The gap between Eberle and Berglund is most definitely larger than the one between Shattenkirk and Petry.
Petry and Smid (sadly our only reliable defensemen last year) make an absolutely sick pairing. No way would I do this deal...
I'm not saying your wrong...
But you are either over valuing Petry by quite a bit, or undervaluing Shattenkirk by quite a bit.
He has played 32, 49, 75, 68 games the last 4 years
Hemsky has played 69, 47, 22, 72
224 games for Green versus 210 for Hemsky
Id still say Hemsky's injurie issues are worse then Green's but not enough to "love to hear a rational for this" as if it is just so impossible. Took 2 minutes with tsn to see they were in the same ballpark with games played
But you are either over valuing Petry by quite a bit, or undervaluing Shattenkirk by quite a bit.
I would say hes doing both, Shatty has put up 40+ points in each of his first two yrs in the league while playing above average defense. Only reason he doesn't get more recognition for his play is because be plays behind Petro. Petry is not a bad d man but nowhere near Shattenkirk right now.
Excellent post, and I'd like to suggest something that furthers the point. Maybe Eberle's shooting percentage was so high because he only shoots in premium scoring areas. If he played like Ovechkin and just ripped it every time he crosses the blue line then absolutely people could say his shooting percentage is unsustainable. But he's not that player. The guy finds open spaces, but when they aren't there he rarely tries to force something. That is why his shooting percentage could very likely stay the same.
The only thing in these parts better than Ebs shooting % is this post. The definition of top cheese, Hitting the nail on the head.
who is not that much better than Petry, 7 more points in 9 more games played last year, playing only 30 seconds more a game and having a plus/minus rating of 8 goals worse as well. If Carlson is a first pairing dman, then Petry is one too. IMO, they are both 2nd pairing dmen at this point, with potential.
I would say hes doing both, Shatty has put up 40+ points in each of his first two yrs in the league while playing above average defense. Only reason he doesn't get more recognition for his play is because be plays behind Petro. Petry is not a bad d man but nowhere near Shattenkirk right now.
Jeff Petry had a great second half of the year. I think most Oilers fans look at this when they value him, while anyone outside of Edmonton hasn't seen enough of Petry's last half of the year and value him on his first two seasons as a whole. Petry definitely had his struggles in his first 1 and 1/2 seasons but his last half season he was playing at a level very close to Shattenkirk. If Petry continues playing at this level, and actually should progress more, it is a bad trade for Edmonton
Jeff Petry had a great second half of the year. I think most Oilers fans look at this when they value him, while anyone outside of Edmonton hasn't seen enough of Petry's last half of the year and value him on his first two seasons as a whole. Petry definitely had his struggles in his first 1 and 1/2 seasons but his last half season he was playing at a level very close to Shattenkirk. If Petry continues playing at this level, and actually should progress more, it is a bad trade for Edmonton
If you say so, I'll agree to disagree. I would need to see more than 6 months of good play before saying he's making the next step.
its a bad trade for both teams, Eberle looks like he's going to have a great career but is not what the Blues need right now and I don't think the Oilers want to trade a top6 forward for a upgrade on d right now.
He has played 32, 49, 75, 68 games the last 4 years
Hemsky has played 69, 47, 22, 72
224 games for Green versus 210 for Hemsky
Id still say Hemsky's injurie issues are worse then Green's but not enough to "love to hear a rational for this" as if it is just so impossible. Took 2 minutes with tsn to see they were in the same ballpark with games played
I had a big post ready to go, but I'd rather not further derail this thread, so I'll keep it short. Hemsky's issues are all the same, those torn labrums in his shoulder. Those will stay with him in the future. Green has been pretty healthy up until a year and a half ago when he got a concussion, followed by a fluky ankle injury and a sports hernia. Those injuries are totally unrelated, and carry no lasting effects besides an increased susceptibility to concussions (which Hemsky has as well). I was hoping that poster would look a little deeper than games played and discover the difference between Hemsky and Green's situations.
Jeff Petry didn't come out of nowhere. It's hilarious how if Detroit let's their prospects take their time it's a great thing and people say we ruin all of ours by rushing them. Then, we get someone who was allowed to take their time, and apparently its also a bad thing
well played sir..... Welcome to the Weiserhood..... (inside joke for those that don't get Canadian TV.) Youtube weiserhood if you'd like in.
Jeff Petry had a great second half of the year. I think most Oilers fans look at this when they value him, while anyone outside of Edmonton hasn't seen enough of Petry's last half of the year and value him on his first two seasons as a whole. Petry definitely had his struggles in his first 1 and 1/2 seasons but his last half season he was playing at a level very close to Shattenkirk. If Petry continues playing at this level, and actually should progress more, it is a bad trade for Edmonton
Shattenkirk has 2 excellent seasons to Petry's 1/2 season. Shattenkirk has much more value.
Shattenkirk has 2 excellent seasons to Petry's 1/2 season. Shattenkirk has much more value.
From Dictionary.com:
log·ic [loj-ik]
noun
1.
the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference.
2.
a particular method of reasoning or argumentation: We were unable to follow his logic.
3.
the system or principles of reasoning applicable to any branch of knowledge or study.
4.
reason or sound judgment, as in utterances or actions: There wasn't much logic in her move.
5.
convincing forcefulness; inexorable truth or persuasiveness: the irresistible logic of the facts.
Answers
verylate: Logic, from the Greek work logos, is a difficult thing to describe. It can be thought of as the process of correct thinking or reasoning, through logical systems and processes.
Posted 2 year ago
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cheadley18: Logic is a basic thought process, or common knowledge. It is considered a reasonable explanation. For example going through basic steps to fix a common problem could be considered logical.
So, that being said RNH is inferior to any other player that has had a couple decent seasons???
From Dictionary.com:
log·ic [loj-ik]
noun
1.
the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference.
2.
a particular method of reasoning or argumentation: We were unable to follow his logic.
3.
the system or principles of reasoning applicable to any branch of knowledge or study.
4.
reason or sound judgment, as in utterances or actions: There wasn't much logic in her move.
5.
convincing forcefulness; inexorable truth or persuasiveness: the irresistible logic of the facts.
Answers
verylate: Logic, from the Greek work logos, is a difficult thing to describe. It can be thought of as the process of correct thinking or reasoning, through logical systems and processes.
Posted 2 year ago
Was this helpful?30
cheadley18: Logic is a basic thought process, or common knowledge. It is considered a reasonable explanation. For example going through basic steps to fix a common problem could be considered logical.
So, that being said RNH is inferior to any other player that has had a couple decent seasons???
Shattenkirk is a very good player but c'mon...
Seriously? You're going to quote dictionary terms? He made a statement that attempted to overlook that Petry had a full year and a half of disapponting play, and is trying to say that there's not a significant gap between him and Shattenkirk. Shattenkirk has been excellent since the first game of his NHL career. Petry hasn't. And why bring RNH into it? Did he have a subpar season? Absolutely not. So he has no bearing on this conversation.
