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Old
11-29-2012, 01:42 AM
  #26
lush
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Originally Posted by Red Haired Shanks View Post
there are a lot of people in general who think way to much of our prospects. not all of our prospects will turn out to be NHLers or even elite NHLers, so realistically what will you expect our prospects to turn out as and give NHL comparables for the ones you feel that will make the NHL
here are the prospects


Goaltenders:
-Eddie Lack: Fringe NHL starter/NHL backup- lindback like
-Joe Cannata: NHL Backup/AHL starter-clemmensen like
-------------------------------------------
-David Honzik: Does not make NHL, possible AHL Backup or czech league starter

Defense:
-Chris Tanev: NHL 2nd pairing-gunnarrson like
-Kevin Connauton :NHL 2nd/3rd pairing-salo/garrison like(in the sense of his booming shot and one timers)
-Patrick McNally : NHL 2nd/3rd pairing-Allen like
-Frank Corrado: NHL 1st/2nd pairing-carle like
-Yann Sauve: NHL 5th-6th D-man-douglas murray like
--------------------------------------
-Henrik Tommernes: Europe top 4
-Jermey Price: AHL top 4
-Adam Polasek: Europe top 6
-Ben Hutton: AHL top 4
-Evan McEneny: AHL top 6
-Peter Andersson: Europe top 6

LW:
--------------------------------------------
-Darren Archibald: AHL bottom 6/4th liner
-Ludwig Blomstrand: Europe 3rd liner
-Steven Anthony: AHL bottom 6
-Bill Sweatt: AHL top 6
-Wesley Myron: AHL 3rd liner
-Matthew Beatie: AHL 3rd liner

RW:
-Nicklas Jensen: NHL 2nd line, good enough for 1st line duties- matt molson like
-Zack Kassian: NHL 2nd line- clowe like
-Anton Rodin: Europe top 6/NHL 3rd liner-hansen like
------------------------------------------
-Alexandre Grenier: Europe top 6
-Pathrik Westerholm: Europe 3rd liner
-Kellan Tochkin: Europe 3rd liner

Centers:
-Jordan Schroeder: NHL 3rd liner-Goc like
-Brendan Gaunce: NHL 2nd/3rd liner-kesler like
-Joseph Labate: NHL 3rd liner- gaustad like
-Alexandre Mallet: NHL 4th liner-lapierre like
-------------------------------------------
-Prab Rai: AHL 3rd liner/ECHLer
-Alex Freisen: AHL 3rd liner
-Stefan Schneider: AHL 3rd/4th liner


what do you expect?
-i think corrado is going to turn out well and surprise a lot of people.
-if schroeder can overcome his size problem he can be very talented, possible 2nd liner.
-i can see gaunce turning out like kesler, expected to be a 3rd line checking center and turn out to be a great 2 way forward who can put up points.
-our left wingers need to improve big time.
-i think Gillis should trade up in the draft this year to get a top 10 pick.
Good post, I think your expectations are closer to reality than a lot of fans'. Keeping in mind all the typical puff pieces that get tossed around out there and the fact most fans will never see a single one of these guys play live or even on TV, unless they get that spot duty or the team gets younger in a hurry because the cap drops.

I found it entertaining that you compared Eddie Lack to Anders Lindback given they are the same age.

Gaunce turning out as well as Kesler would be amazing, I'd say your expectations are a bit high on that one.

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11-29-2012, 03:04 AM
  #27
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OP is wrong about Sauve. That guy is a bust, no shot at making the NHL.

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11-29-2012, 09:12 AM
  #28
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I see Kassian and Jensen as 2nd line wingers. Excited to see them on the same line eventually.

Schroeder, I think he can make to the NHL in the right situation as an average 2nd/3rd C. But I remain skeptical that we are that right situation for him and that he fits into the current look of this team. Rooting for him though to make the NHL in some capacity.

Gaunce is a safe bet to become a bottom 6 grinder, can play C And LW as well so there's some versatility there. Might play stints at the 2C level but would not be considered as a viable option long term.

Rodin at times looks so smooth with the puck and great protecting the puck on the boards but beyond these flashes, I wonder if he will ever put it together. Gut instinct tells me he is back in the SEL within 3 years.

Although they have a really attractive upside, LaBate/McNally is still too much of a project to judge, along with our new college guys (Myron, Beattie and Hutton). Purely speculating, If I had to choose the likelihood of success in the freshman group, I'm going with Hutton. From the games I listened to, he is heavily depended on at ES and special teams as a rookie, managing to keep his head above water with an even plus minus on a team that's a collective -12 and a low scoring team to boot is an impressive start. And McNally's comparable being Allen? Is this Bryan Allen you are talking about? Don't see one similarity.

Sauve will at the very most be a journeyman 7-8 on a cheap contract. He is at his potential now, very little upside or improvement now. Personally, last season, didn't see much separating him from Alberts. This season, he looks more wildly inconsistent. MG told him to simplify his game but it looks like he is doing the opposite.

Sweatt will continue to toil in the AHL, a classic tweener. I said at the beginning of the season, he needed to take a major step forward this season to remain in the org past this season. I don't see any improvement.

Polasek is someone I'd like to see succeed. I think he could be a capable #6 with the right teacher and continuing development, but I don't see that happening. Sad to see him in the ECHL and not called up yet.

Tanev and Corrado I see as 2nd pairing NHL dmen but Corrado has the higher upside with his shot and tenacity.

Connauton, I've long said I do not really see an NHL future for him. Only If he is baby sat/paired by Tanev. Then he looks pretty good, but otherwise, i do not know why so many were still so high on him in the summer, same wonder goes to Gillis bringing up and praising kconn consistently in interviews.

Blomstrand, still such an unknown to us, but it's been long enough in Sweden. It's time to move to the AHL but he recently moved teams probably as djurgarden was barely playing him and looks to be doing better.

Mceneny is very intriguing to me. Too soon to say projections, but I think he will soon be a premier d man in the OHL. Would've been the Rangers #1 if Murphy did not return.

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Old
11-29-2012, 10:11 AM
  #29
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Blomstrand is at best a fourthliner with PK skills. Dont think hell ever be anything more. Most likely a Swedish eliteleague player.

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11-29-2012, 03:27 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
I'm still unsure if Schroeder has trouble generating offense. His environment and playstyle have a lot to do with it. Perhaps when he is taken off the Wolves he will show better at the NHL level, much like Hodgson?



His utility comes down to his defense IMO. If he is ever used in Dzone situations in the NHL, as he has been in the AHL, then he becomes far more useful than a stop gap... The jury is still out on this guy. A 50~ point, PK capable C is a nice thing to have.
I don't buy the 'he'll score more at a higher level' argument with Schroeder. I've never seen a smallish skill player that this has been true for, ever. As a rule, smallish skill players who make the NHL utterly dominate at lower levels.

We heard the same thing when he had a bad year at Minnesota, and when he was with better players in the AHL .... he had a blip, then resumed not producing.

What I see in Schroeder is a guy who works hard but is generally a perimeter player and not overly willing to take the puck into the hard areas of the ice, thus vastly limiting his production.

When he gets motivated or finds some sack in new or more important situations (freshman year at Minnesota when he was playing to get drafted, WJCs, first stint in the AHL, a few AHL blips since then) he takes himself into those areas and his production goes way up.

To me, this is why we see a guy who 'looks like he should score more' and occasionally does but for the most part continually underwhelms offensively. Some guys are just cautious about putting themselves in positions where they might get smashed and to me Schroeder is one of them.

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Old
11-29-2012, 03:33 PM
  #31
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Connauton, I've long said I do not really see an NHL future for him. Only If he is baby sat/paired by Tanev. Then he looks pretty good, but otherwise, i do not know why so many were still so high on him in the summer, same wonder goes to Gillis bringing up and praising kconn consistently in interviews.
I thought he looked really solid defensively in the games I've watched. He skates well and was really strong down low. I wouldn't read too much into him needing Tanev to play well, the rest of the D-men on the team are young and inexperienced or complete crap. I think he'll be a player.

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Old
11-29-2012, 10:21 PM
  #32
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I thought he looked really solid defensively in the games I've watched. He skates well and was really strong down low. I wouldn't read too much into him needing Tanev to play well, the rest of the D-men on the team are young and inexperienced or complete crap. I think he'll be a player.
Ive just about caught up on watching each game this season and I see a large difference in his play with and without Tanev, same thing happened last year. Last season when they played together, I thought connauton played his best hockey both defensively and offensively. He was visible, creating offense and moving the puck better. Then when Tanev got called up, connauton simply did not have the same level of play when he was paired with Baumer. He simply faded into the background. His offensive presence was few and far between, had troubles creating much on the PP and simply wasn't much of a threat.

This season, since they've been split up, I again see a difference in Connauton's level of play, it's dropped off again. Its like deja vu. He is by no means the worst guy on the back end for the wolves but I don't see the NHL ready player Gillis is seeing and I don't see him becoming an impact player for us in the near future until his game progresses. Needs to move the puck smarter, improve his breakouts, improve his positioning and contain his man in front of the net.

You can only blame poor teammates and partners to a certain extent. Yes, being paired with Joslin hasn't helped one bit but Tanev has separated himself from the others despite playing with a very shaky Matheson. Same goes with Schroeder, he doesn't get much help but at least this season he is easily separating himself as a top player on the team by taking it into his own hands and scoring those goals. The way I see it is that if a player is touted by the GM to challenge seriously for a roster spot, he should be able to elevate his play and separate himself. I don't think he's done that yet this season.

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Old
11-30-2012, 02:26 AM
  #33
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The way I see it is that if a player is touted by the GM to challenge seriously for a roster spot, he should be able to elevate his play and separate himself. I don't think he's done that yet this season.
For K-Conn to make the Canucks he's going to have to play a very solid game. Strong down low, quick puck movement, active stick, etc, all the small stuff our coaches expect players to do. It's not about putting up points for Canuck prospects, it's about putting an NHL game together. I think that's what Gillis has been talking about and what I've seen. You've definitely seen more of him though, so maybe he's having his best games whenever I watch.

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11-30-2012, 02:40 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by thefeebster View Post
I see Kassian and Jensen as 2nd line wingers. Excited to see them on the same line eventually.

Schroeder, I think he can make to the NHL in the right situation as an average 2nd/3rd C. But I remain skeptical that we are that right situation for him and that he fits into the current look of this team. Rooting for him though to make the NHL in some capacity.

Gaunce is a safe bet to become a bottom 6 grinder, can play C And LW as well so there's some versatility there. Might play stints at the 2C level but would not be considered as a viable option long term.

Rodin at times looks so smooth with the puck and great protecting the puck on the boards but beyond these flashes, I wonder if he will ever put it together. Gut instinct tells me he is back in the SEL within 3 years.

Although they have a really attractive upside, LaBate/McNally is still too much of a project to judge, along with our new college guys (Myron, Beattie and Hutton). Purely speculating, If I had to choose the likelihood of success in the freshman group, I'm going with Hutton. From the games I listened to, he is heavily depended on at ES and special teams as a rookie, managing to keep his head above water with an even plus minus on a team that's a collective -12 and a low scoring team to boot is an impressive start. And McNally's comparable being Allen? Is this Bryan Allen you are talking about? Don't see one similarity.

Sauve will at the very most be a journeyman 7-8 on a cheap contract. He is at his potential now, very little upside or improvement now. Personally, last season, didn't see much separating him from Alberts. This season, he looks more wildly inconsistent. MG told him to simplify his game but it looks like he is doing the opposite.

Sweatt will continue to toil in the AHL, a classic tweener. I said at the beginning of the season, he needed to take a major step forward this season to remain in the org past this season. I don't see any improvement.

Polasek is someone I'd like to see succeed. I think he could be a capable #6 with the right teacher and continuing development, but I don't see that happening. Sad to see him in the ECHL and not called up yet.

Tanev and Corrado I see as 2nd pairing NHL dmen but Corrado has the higher upside with his shot and tenacity.

Connauton, I've long said I do not really see an NHL future for him. Only If he is baby sat/paired by Tanev. Then he looks pretty good, but otherwise, i do not know why so many were still so high on him in the summer, same wonder goes to Gillis bringing up and praising kconn consistently in interviews.

Blomstrand, still such an unknown to us, but it's been long enough in Sweden. It's time to move to the AHL but he recently moved teams probably as djurgarden was barely playing him and looks to be doing better.

Mceneny is very intriguing to me. Too soon to say projections, but I think he will soon be a premier d man in the OHL. Would've been the Rangers #1 if Murphy did not return.

Agreed with everything here.

Good to hear positive about Hutton. Where do you listen to his games?

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Old
11-30-2012, 02:52 AM
  #35
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@feebster What's up with Rodin in your opinion and why isn't he scoring more? Does he play too much on the perimeter as well?

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Old
11-30-2012, 04:06 AM
  #36
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Connauton sounds a lot like Cody Franson except worse and Franson sucks. He's got a shot, he's soft, he plays weak. Not excited about this guy being an NHL player.

Overall our prospects are pretty terrible, Gaunce is the only one that really excites me. Tanev needs a lot of work, he cant handle size or physical players/the front of the net, and he cant even shoot at a peewee level.

Mike Gillis promised prospects and failed terribly so far. Its a sad group. Just being honest.

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11-30-2012, 05:43 AM
  #37
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You mean the same Matt Moulsen that's scored 30+ goals in each of the last 3 seasons? Yeah, I'd hate to see Jensen turn out like that, it'd be tragic.
You wanna play that game? Might as well bring out a guy like Anson Carter in his later seasons, scoring 30 goals without doing anything. Moulsen is a player who is lucky to have chemistry with Tavares, on a weak team. If he isn't scoring, he's useless.

I'd much rather have a 3rd line center who carries his line, can play any situation, and is at 10 goals 30 points than a guy who floats around. Jensen has the skill set to be better than that. Moulsen isn't a guy you'd want on a contending team.

Which is why, point projection and player quality assumption is pointless. Every player goes through different paths and circumstances. Who knows, maybe one of the "crap" prospects we have will eventually find his way in on a very good position.


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Old
11-30-2012, 05:54 AM
  #38
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Connauton sounds a lot like Cody Franson except worse and Franson sucks. He's got a shot, he's soft, he plays weak. Not excited about this guy being an NHL player.

Overall our prospects are pretty terrible, Gaunce is the only one that really excites me. Tanev needs a lot of work, he cant handle size or physical players/the front of the net, and he cant even shoot at a peewee level.

Mike Gillis promised prospects and failed terribly so far. Its a sad group. Just being honest.
Connauton and Franson are complete opposites. Franson is big and slow. It's a big difference. At least Connauton has something to work with.

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11-30-2012, 10:36 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by NugentHopkinsfan View Post
Connauton sounds a lot like Cody Franson except worse and Franson sucks. He's got a shot, he's soft, he plays weak. Not excited about this guy being an NHL player.

Overall our prospects are pretty terrible, Gaunce is the only one that really excites me. Tanev needs a lot of work, he cant handle size or physical players/the front of the net, and he cant even shoot at a peewee level.

Mike Gillis promised prospects and failed terribly so far. Its a sad group. Just being honest.

Not sure what you're expecting when the team is near the top of the league every season. He's done a fine job with the late 1st round picks, and even found a gem or two in the later rounds with Corrado and McNally, not to mention FA signings like Tanev and Lack.

Are you advocating that the Canucks start throwing games so they can draft high every year like the Oilers?

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11-30-2012, 10:44 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by NugentHopkinsfan View Post
Connauton sounds a lot like Cody Franson except worse and Franson sucks. He's got a shot, he's soft, he plays weak. Not excited about this guy being an NHL player.

Overall our prospects are pretty terrible, Gaunce is the only one that really excites me. Tanev needs a lot of work, he cant handle size or physical players/the front of the net, and he cant even shoot at a peewee level.

Mike Gillis promised prospects and failed terribly so far. Its a sad group. Just being honest.
Connauton isn't soft brah.

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Old
11-30-2012, 10:44 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by NugentHopkinsfan View Post
Connauton sounds a lot like Cody Franson except worse and Franson sucks. He's got a shot, he's soft, he plays weak. Not excited about this guy being an NHL player.

Overall our prospects are pretty terrible, Gaunce is the only one that really excites me. Tanev needs a lot of work, he cant handle size or physical players/the front of the net, and he cant even shoot at a peewee level.

Mike Gillis promised prospects and failed terribly so far. Its a sad group. Just being honest.
Gaunce, Corrado, Kassian, Jensen are all prospects that Canucks fans should be excited about.

Gaunce has NHL size already, and looks to be a sure fire NHLer, but that could just be a bottom 6 grinder.

Corrado has an outside shot at making the World Jr team this year. With the tournament being in Russia and on big ice, his skating ability could give him an edge of bigger defensemen. He's got 2nd pairing defenseman potential.

Kassian has hands and playmaking skills to go along with his size and grit, people compared him a lot to Lucic when the Canucks acquired him but I see him more as a Bertuzzi type player.

Jensen is a finisher, at 19 he's leading his SEL team in goals. I think he's gonna have a few 30 goal seasons in the NHL when his career is done.

After that it is a big drop off though.

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11-30-2012, 11:27 AM
  #42
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One guy who I think has shot up our prospects ranking is Corrado. I'd place him in our top 5 now as I have been really impressed with pretty much every aspect of his game. We've had a lot of disappointments but I think that this is one guy who has the potential to be a very good player. I'm excited to see him take the next step.

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11-30-2012, 12:03 PM
  #43
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One guy who I think has shot up our prospects ranking is Corrado. I'd place him in our top 5 now as I have been really impressed with pretty much every aspect of his game. We've had a lot of disappointments but I think that this is one guy who has the potential to be a very good player. I'm excited to see him take the next step.
Yeah Corrado's the real deal.

I'm very interested in Evan McEneny too actually. His game tonight is televised, looking forward to seeing him play.

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11-30-2012, 12:09 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by NugentHopkinsfan View Post
Connauton sounds a lot like Cody Franson except worse and Franson sucks. He's got a shot, he's soft, he plays weak. Not excited about this guy being an NHL player.

Overall our prospects are pretty terrible, Gaunce is the only one that really excites me. Tanev needs a lot of work, he cant handle size or physical players/the front of the net, and he cant even shoot at a peewee level.

Mike Gillis promised prospects and failed terribly so far. Its a sad group. Just being honest.
Connaunton doesn't play soft...gotta go watch some more Wolves games, buddy.

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11-30-2012, 01:04 PM
  #45
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Yeah Corrado's the real deal.

I'm very interested in Evan McEneny too actually. His game tonight is televised, looking forward to seeing him play.
An interesting prospect. I just read up on him. Presumably he is fully recovered from his knee injury now.

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11-30-2012, 01:36 PM
  #46
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@feebster What's up with Rodin in your opinion and why isn't he scoring more? Does he play too much on the perimeter as well?
Wasn't directed at me, but I don't know that anyone can pinpoint why Rodin isn't succeeding. He looks like he should be putting up points and making things happen but he just isn't. He certainly doesn't shoot enough, that's for sure —*22 shots in 14 games with 7 of those coming in 1 game. He's basically averaging 1 shot per game outside of that one fluke game. What's hurting him further is that he's not particularly good defensively so far. Pretty inconsistent game-to-game too.

There's been quite a few Swedes recently that have had trouble adjusting though. Zibanejad looks less than impressive for where he was picked and MPS has been extremely disappointing too. Silfverberg hasn't exactly lit it up either so far.

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Schroeder, I think he can make to the NHL in the right situation as an average 2nd/3rd C. But I remain skeptical that we are that right situation for him and that he fits into the current look of this team. Rooting for him though to make the NHL in some capacity.
I still think he can put together a 60-70 point season in the NHL while playing tough minutes if he gets a chance. And yeah, I know I'm in the minority here... Find it bizarre when people praise Kassian and then at the same time criticize Schroeder when their production has been basically identical this year (and Kassian was drafted earlier).


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11-30-2012, 01:58 PM
  #47
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[QUOTE=Tiranis;56143435]Wasn't directed at me, but I don't know that anyone can pinpoint why Rodin isn't succeeding. He looks like he should be putting up points and making things happen but he just isn't. He certainly doesn't shoot enough, that's for sure —*22 shots in 14 games with 7 of those coming in 1 game. He's basically averaging 1 shot per game outside of that one fluke game. What's hurting him further is that he's not particularly good defensively so far. Pretty inconsistent game-to-game too.

There's been quite a few Swedes recently that have had trouble adjusting though. Zibanejad looks less than impressive for where he was picked and MPS has been extremely disappointing too. Silfverberg hasn't exactly lit it up either so far.



I still think he can put together a 60-70 point season in the NHL while playing tough minutes if he gets a chance. And yeah, I know I'm in the minority here... Find it bizarre when people praise Kassian and then at the same time criticize Schroeder when their production has been basically identical this year (and Kassian was drafted earlier).[/QUOTE]

It's easy for us to forget that Kassian was drafted earlier because it seems like Schroeder has been around for a long time now. He's an old man now.
The big thing that Kassian has over Schroeder is size though. If they can both put up identical offensive numbers Kassian is a much more unique prospect in that there are few with his size, skill and meanness. I'm hoping that Schroeder can continue to work on his defence so that he can potentially slide in up and down the lineup.

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11-30-2012, 02:03 PM
  #48
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It's easy for us to forget that Kassian was drafted earlier because it seems like Schroeder has been around for a long time now. He's an old man now.
The big thing that Kassian has over Schroeder is size though. If they can both put up identical offensive numbers Kassian is a much more unique prospect in that there are few with his size, skill and meanness. I'm hoping that Schroeder can continue to work on his defence so that he can potentially slide in up and down the lineup.
I don't disagree that given the same production, Kassian is a more attractive prospect but that's expected given his draft position. But it's not as if the margin between the two of them is as big as to say one is a promising prospect and the other is a total worthless piece of crap, which a lot of people seem to be doing. Besides, they both have things they're better at than the other guy — it's not as if Kassian is just flat out better at everything.

I've said before, Schroeder is #5 on my list (Kassian, Lack, Jensen, Corrado... Tanev doesn't count, otherwise he would be behind Kassian, probably), so it's not as if I'm totally crazy even though the way I defend Schroeder is might seem like it.

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11-30-2012, 02:03 PM
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vanwest, its been a known thing that when you are undersized , youre expected to put up numbers. Kassian can keep his spot in the NHL lineup just using his size basically. All those other tools are HUGE bonuses

Players that have made it into the NHL to be impactful whatsoever at such a small size, typically dominated lower leagues. Kassian can make the NHL and offense can come. Schroeder needs the offense rather quickly just to stick in the NHL after a tryout

You can't judge those 2 players as being NHL ready the same way. lol

One is a huge bruising power forward who intimidates other players and goes to the dirty areas, the other is an undersized perimeter scorer, who in their right mind would look at their numbers the same and say, well jordan schroeder is doing just as good, call him up.hah

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11-30-2012, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
But it's not as if the margin between the two of them is as big as to say one is a promising prospect and the other is a total worthless piece of crap, which a lot of people seem to be doing.
You know better than to listen to the mob. Schroeder needs some time in the NHL before we get an idea how close he is. I think he's the kind of player that would benefit from playing with better players but it's a big question mark right now whether he can handle bigger players defensively. IMO, he's still a year away. Once he gets a taste of the NHL and all the little things they want him to do become habit, he'll gain confidence and the points will come easier. Players like Schroeder who have talent and the work ethic to go with it tend to make it, I think he will.

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